• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 21:54
CET 03:54
KST 11:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1639 users

HotS Balance Update #6 10/12/12 - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
551 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 28 Next All
Fungal Growth
Profile Joined November 2010
United States434 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 23:11:35
October 12 2012 23:08 GMT
#141
MS: Very bad to yank energize. First we lose nexus teleport, then we in essence lose mass recall (current version is so bad) and now we lose energize. MS has been transformed from a fun creative unit, to a poor-man's voidray + photon cannon combination unit.

Oracle: Ditto. We lose cloak, entomb has yet to be cost effective (considering opportunity cost), siphon is too slow and now we lose detection? Back to robo builds Another fun/creative unit down the tubes. MS/Nexus detection is NOT the same as mobile detection. You HAVE to have mobile detection vs cloaked units, else the cloaked attackers will just attack your parameter/expansions.

Tempest Cost/tech reduction: Good change...could be fun to use now. Using and stopping spotters will be key. If tempest turns out to be OP (doubtful), I hope they nerf the vision to make it more dependent on spotters.

Spore Buff: I'm not a fan of one dimensional air/cloak build order wins so I like this. Problem is that the evo chamber really set zerg back economically vs dts/voids/phoenix. Take 2.5 drones mining...then take the drones that would have been built from those two drones...etc...and it compounds significantly. This could be a huge buff for zerg and roach spam/deathball timing pushes (which Blizzard is still in denial that there is a problem with). To counter this, I would love to see the build time of hatcheries off creep take longer to build (to encourage more dynamic zerg play with macro hatches and gas and less drone cheese which zerg love to do vs air builds).

Hallucination: Love this as it opens up tons of creative options. Was disappointed that FF wasn't addressed. I'm probably one of the few people on the planet that actually hoped Blizzard would make this mechanic easier to use. Don't let the game think for you yes, but why not have a snap to grid option to prevent cracks/overlap? The pro's mess up their FF's all the time, so I don't buy this lower level argument. You miss a ff by one space and you lose the game vs 4gate/ling-roach/mm rushes...WAY too tedious and unfun. Would love to see zerg get free burrow to compensate for hallucination. Can you imagine burrowed zerglings blocking expansions and drones burrowing rightaway to avoid hellions? Lot of creative potential for zerg.

Widow Mine Activation Time: Good change in the right direction, but the widow mine is still too well rounded. It is fast, can hit air/ground, doesn't have bad range, great damage, DPS... Good units need weakness. My vote is that the widow mine get a speed nerf (AOE units shouldn't be speed) which would ensure this is more of a positional unit over a cheesy deathball unit. With so many cloaked units in the game (banshee/ghost/dts/MS/observer/infestor/roach/widow mine), I would love to see the return of a manual attack area command (Warcraft 2 fans who used juggernauts know what I'm talking about). Seems stupid that you can't guess where a unit is and attack that ground where you think it is hiding. Maybe get rid of the distotion to compensate.
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
October 12 2012 23:11 GMT
#142
Ah cool, glad to see they're doing 1 change at a time with the widow mine, couple that with earlier detection and I might not just auto win games anymore :D
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
shid0x
Profile Joined July 2012
Korea (South)5014 Posts
October 12 2012 23:12 GMT
#143
I feel bad playing Terran,can i have the extention for 10 euros instead of 40 ?
Also protoss is completely HUEHEUEHEUHEUEHEUEHUEHUEHUEHUE now.
RIP MKP
hacklebeast
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5090 Posts
October 12 2012 23:13 GMT
#144
Pretty sure the dev team are extremely jealous of the firebat, but forgot the Blizzard actually has copyright for that unit and they could totally just put it in.
Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero
Xenocryst
Profile Joined December 2010
United States521 Posts
October 12 2012 23:15 GMT
#145
Hellbat, fucking sick!
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
October 12 2012 23:17 GMT
#146
Too many changes at once...

Removing energize,dont help with Oracles,but at least their Entomb has been improved.The Detection on the Nexus with the MS is just crazy.No more Banshee openings and no more DTs.You dont even need an Observer,so you may skip Robo and go for Stargate,but they must improve Voids and Phoenix to be able to substitute gate units.

The Tempest is now the Counter of Collosi.No more Collosi Wars in PvP,so I am glad to see this change and maybe P began to Open with 1gate StarGate,inlcuding Oracle to harras and make enemy stay at home,while getting their Tempest Army and ofcourse can SCOUT FREE with only Sentry Enrgy.This new Tempest still mantain Mech in TvP dead.

Zerg changes are OK.The Viper need a Buff,because of his Tech and Cost.The Spore is because of mines.Its a change really needed because T got Scan so soon and P only Need MS,but still seems to be a "Free Detection".150 for CC and 300 you lose if you scan.MS cost+energy for P and 75 mins for Zerg!!!If you compared it to Overlords born with detection its a good change hehe,but not if you compared with WoL.Its just the Death of the Banshee.Another Terran unit to the trash now.No more Hellion+Banshee openings.Banshee will go togehter with Ghost and Mech to sleep,awaiting LotV hehe

WidowLauncher Change trully needed.Everyone expected to be nerfed more,but its ok.They are useless while recharging and cant attack spores hehe.

Hellbat... TErrible,TERRIBLE NAME.Blizzard is supposed to not reintroduce old units,but this mech Firebat is just crazy
Conti
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2516 Posts
October 12 2012 23:18 GMT
#147

The cost of Entomb has been lowered from 100 to 75, while the duration has been increased from 50 to 60 seconds.

Wait a second. Wasn't entomb's duration 45 seconds before this patch, not 50? Not that it mattters, but I want some consistency here!
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
October 12 2012 23:20 GMT
#148
Every week my jaw drops at the sheer magnitude of the changes here. I absolutely can't wait until we know what the game is going to be like at release.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
Goodmourning
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States22 Posts
October 12 2012 23:23 GMT
#149
I guess we will just have to see how much that fixes widow mines.
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
October 12 2012 23:24 GMT
#150
Wtf Hellbat!? Should just stick with firebat if they're gonna use "bat."
"Start yo" -FlaSh
Pucca
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Taiwan1280 Posts
October 12 2012 23:24 GMT
#151
As long as I see "Carrier has been removed" I'm very happy with any changes.
Master Chief
Areon
Profile Joined November 2010
United States273 Posts
October 12 2012 23:24 GMT
#152
Pretty random with the Battle Hellion, but makes a fuckload of sense considering they do say "Hellbat coming in" on spawn. Probably going to be more confusing for some people now.
FrogOfWar
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1406 Posts
October 12 2012 23:25 GMT
#153
Bring 'em on, those halibuts...
sns3rsam
Profile Joined September 2012
United States138 Posts
October 12 2012 23:28 GMT
#154
On October 13 2012 07:28 ZjiublingZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 07:23 sns3rsam wrote:
I watched a couple of players playing around with blinding cloud and I noticed units underneath automatically tried to get within range one. unfortunately, this seems to make units get pushed out of the blinding cloud, almost as if it requires almost no micro to get out of blinding cloud. I feel that blizz needs to take this out and reduce radius back to 1.5.


I've noticed this too, though against Banelings or even Infestor/BL/Corruptor this is exactly what the Zerg wants. Also you can negate this a bit with Fungal. I don't know, it was pretty underwhelming before against almost everything, I think it's a good change to try.


hmmm i agree that it works really well with banelings and infestor/BL. perhaps too well hahaha i can see blinding cloud then fungal and then in comes the baneling pain train lol. we shall have to see... i feel that reducing the radius could be the right answer though in return for getting rid of auto-movement under cloud as you need more clouds to blanket the army and that gives the army time to retreat from cloud. i am excited what this could bring to e-sports! intense micro moments where bioball scrambling to get away from banelings and blinding clouds :D
"Every Terran same to me... uhhhh ezpz" -DRG // When Life gives you banelings...
Foudzing
Profile Joined December 2011
France181 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 23:33:10
October 12 2012 23:29 GMT
#155
Hellions and banshee cloak was a good opening against zerg.
Aaaaaaaaaand it's gone.

Seriously, what the point of making invisible units if there is almost free detection...
Bomber and MKP Forever <3 | Dayshi | Maru | Feast | Symbol | ForGG | Bly | Dream Millenium Fighting!
LovE-
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1963 Posts
October 12 2012 23:30 GMT
#156
Right off the bat I already don't like the spore crawler change
LovE.311 (NA) || @LovE_Sc2
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
October 12 2012 23:30 GMT
#157
question, do hellions no longer transform now or what?
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
October 12 2012 23:31 GMT
#158
On October 13 2012 08:08 Fungal Growth wrote:
Widow Mine Activation Time: Good change in the right direction, but the widow mine is still too well rounded. It is fast, can hit air/ground, doesn't have bad range, great damage, DPS... Good units need weakness. My vote is that the widow mine get a speed nerf (AOE units shouldn't be speed) which would ensure this is more of a positional unit over a cheesy deathball unit. With so many cloaked units in the game (banshee/ghost/dts/MS/observer/infestor/roach/widow mine), I would love to see the return of a manual attack area command (Warcraft 2 fans who used juggernauts know what I'm talking about). Seems stupid that you can't guess where a unit is and attack that ground where you think it is hiding. Maybe get rid of the distotion to compensate.

Widow Mines are Lurkers.

How does it look now?
kiy0
Profile Joined August 2010
Portugal593 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 23:32:48
October 12 2012 23:32 GMT
#159
The Hallucination buff has great balance implications. I don't see it sticking around to be honest. We're talking about the possibility of constant scouting information income at the cost of energy on a unit that you will pretty much always have in any matchup (maybe not as much in PvP).

Terran has scans which costs them 270 minerals. Zerg has overlord positioning and maybe zergling run-bys. Protoss will have scouting information at the cost of a forcefield.

I'd be OK with this change if you could no longer hallucinate phoenix. Other than that, if the issue is allowing more scouting, keep the upgrade and reduce cost or duration.
Wisemen speak when they have something to say. Others speak when they have to say something.
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
October 12 2012 23:32 GMT
#160
gotta love this halluciantion change <3 but the spore crawler change is a little bit harsh in my opinion. bad times for dts and stargates
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 1h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft407
Livibee 81
RuFF_SC2 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 693
Noble 130
Larva 127
Shuttle 85
Sexy 59
NaDa 36
Hm[arnc] 13
Bale 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever411
NeuroSwarm82
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 927
C9.Mang0494
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv5588
m0e_tv544
minikerr52
Other Games
summit1g8352
ViBE163
Fuzer 38
ZombieGrub32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick49678
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta52
• Mapu6
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 33
• Azhi_Dahaki4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22516
League of Legends
• Doublelift5346
• Stunt334
Other Games
• Scarra1251
Upcoming Events
SOOP
1d 1h
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
The PondCast
1d 7h
Wardi Open
1d 9h
Big Gabe XPERIONCRAFT
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
2 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-06
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
Escore Tournament S1: W3
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.