On October 13 2012 08:29 Foudzing wrote:
Hellions and banshee cloak was a good opening against zerg.
Aaaaaaaaaand it's gone.

Seriously, what the point of making invisible units if there is almost free detection...

...said the Terran.

Jasiwel

United States146 Posts

October 12 2012 23:37 GMT

#162

On October 13 2012 05:50 AndAgain wrote:
Pretty big tempest buff.

I still hate how it's 300/200. It should be lower mineral-wise to like 250. I do love that you don't need a Fleet Beacon for it though.

Freezd

United States139 Posts

October 12 2012 23:42 GMT

#163

Fire bat incoming!

Dvriel

607 Posts

October 12 2012 23:43 GMT

#164

On October 13 2012 06:24 Horizon.Infinite wrote:
Bad patch in my opinion.

Removing the means of detection gives Protoss players less incentive to go Stargate, and now we're back to observers for our only means of mobile detection.

Moving out in the early game vs T is not going to be possible until we have the Robo up, so we are pretty much back to where we were.

Seems they are having to change so much just to balance the widow mine. Spores don't require Evo, this has just made cloaked banshee and DT play so much weaker, all because of the widow mine.

Given the widow mines current form, I don't think it would be wrong to bring back the Armory requirement, they have pretty much replaced the Helion for the early damage unit.

Bad patch, very disappointed.

Why no go for SG in PvT?Entomb force T to stay at home and kill the Fields and maybe put some turrets.Free Hallucination allow you to scout without observer and no supply cost.The only thing to detect in T army is the banshee,but with 13 range cast on Nexus you got your base safe.And when you go for a early pressure you can Hallu lot of units forcing T to make bunkers,turrets and spend Scans to detect your real units.

Mines arent so quick as hellions and do not do so much damage to workers.Just go and check Day9 8/10 and will see.

dezi

Germany1536 Posts

October 12 2012 23:45 GMT

#165

Is this some kinda joke? Detection from M-Core > Banshee opening is gone ... limit us more Blizzard - way to go!

weepingtweeter

United States9 Posts

October 12 2012 23:45 GMT

#166

wow this spore crawler change is garbage. as is the mothership ability to grant to detection. What just happened to the viability of DT's, Banshees. Come on blizzard.

Your making this game have hard counters to EVERYTHING.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

October 12 2012 23:47 GMT

#167

trying to slowly replace the voidray now since the carrier works better lol, i will be sad if they do. Voidray rocks just needs even more micro then a carrier.
Not sure about these changes, I am worried because I thought it was a trollpost, so i even checked the link. Well looks like it will be a wasted month till they are back to square one.

Hylirion

Netherlands968 Posts

October 12 2012 23:49 GMT

#168

Wow, free spore crawlers for everyone! What a ridiculous change, how is this fair to terran and protoss who need a forge/ebay for static detection..??? Big nerf to DT rush or Banshee harass also...

Removing detection on the oracle seems really strange as well, the detection was one of the reasons the thing made it viable to go starport in HotS...?

Also, Hellbat ROFL

Kodak

United States157 Posts

October 12 2012 23:51 GMT

#169

On October 13 2012 07:42 Atrbyg wrote:
Not really sure about the spore crawler change. It affects way more than the problem it was intended to solve.

There wasn't even a problem that needed solving.

sagefreke

United States241 Posts

October 12 2012 23:52 GMT

#170

I may not be in the beta, but I have a feeling that Zergs are going to be forced to automatically go spire the second they see protoss even making stargate for the simple fear that a tempest will be one shotting their drones in a dead space that Queens and Hydras can't reach.

Edit: Add overlords to that as well.

Foudzing

France181 Posts

October 12 2012 23:56 GMT

#171

In my opinion, Blizzard messed up everything by listenning too much the players who are complaining.

There was a debate in order to make FFs easier to use, but seriously, why are you whining on that on HotS and not on WoL? why complaining on that right now whereas there is much more important to do?

They deleted the Warhound, first mistake, sure it was op, but it just needed some nerf in DPS or speed and an increase in the cost. But no, IT'S OP KILL IT WITH FIRE!

In order to compense, they buffed Widow Mines: second mistake, now they're buffing the others race in order to counter the op unit they just created...What the serious fuck.

Okay the spore with no evo-chamber, make it easier for zergs to deal with mines, but it also almost destroys the banshee or Stargate opening.

It looks like they forget all their objectives.
Blizzard wanted to make Mech play valuable against protoss -->failed
Blizzard wanted to make the late tvp easier for terran --> failed
Blizzard wanted to make an air counter to mass mutas in zvp --> failed
Blizzard wanted to make an harass unit for protoss --> failed

And yes I'm speaking in the name of the terran because it looks like everyone is zerg or protoss around here...

Havik_

United States5585 Posts

October 13 2012 00:03 GMT

#172

Good changes overall to Protoss. Its a step in the right direction for sure. I like how you can just make the tempest and hallucination now and not have to spend any more resources, but what prompted the spore crawler change? DT openings vs Zerg are now even more uselss than they once we're.

IcookTacos

Sweden295 Posts

October 13 2012 00:03 GMT

#173

Yeah the name "Battlehelion" was clearly OP.
Glad they patched it.

magicmUnky

Australia280 Posts

October 13 2012 00:04 GMT

#174

Sentry
Hallucination no longer requires research.

LOL... oh man... fun times incoming

archon256

United States363 Posts

October 13 2012 00:04 GMT

#175

I don't like the Evo change simply because it's an awkward way to balance WMine usage against Zerg, but people are seriously overestimating the effect it'll have against DT and Banshee builds.
By the time these builds hit every competent Zerg will have an Evo ready, if only just for upgrades.

Dvriel

607 Posts

October 13 2012 00:06 GMT

#176

On October 13 2012 08:56 Foudzing wrote:
In my opinion, Blizzard messed up everything by listenning too much the players who are complaining.

There was a debate in order to make FFs easier to use, but seriously, why are you whining on that on HotS and not on WoL? why complaining on that right now whereas there is much more important to do?

They deleted the Warhound, first mistake, sure it was op, but it just needed some nerf in DPS or speed and an increase in the cost. But no, IT'S OP KILL IT WITH FIRE!

In order to compense, they buffed Widow Mines: second mistake, now they're buffing the others race in order to counter the op unit they just created...What the serious fuck.

Okay the spore with no evo-chamber, make it easier for zergs to deal with mines, but it also almost destroys the banshee or Stargate opening.

It looks like they forget all their objectives.
Blizzard wanted to make Mech play valuable against protoss -->failed
Blizzard wanted to make the late tvp easier for terran --> failed
Blizzard wanted to make an air counter to mass mutas in zvp --> failed
Blizzard wanted to make an harass unit for protoss --> failed

And yes I'm speaking in the name of the terran because it looks like everyone is zerg or protoss around here...

TOTALLY and FULLY AGREE with you man! What are tehy doing? They may forgot which were their goals for HotS.So many changes just mess the balance reached in WoL.All those issues you adress still without solution.I want to play mech in PvT,but no way.TvP still a hell vs Chargelots/Archons....

Belha

Italy2850 Posts

October 13 2012 00:06 GMT

#177

Wow, sick buff to P scout While i agree that P have the worse scout of the 3 races, free hallu+momma detection seems a lot. I guess i'm not gonna test it with no beta key ¬¬

And the hellion change to bio and the name change is retarded and hilarious.

Xamo

Spain886 Posts

October 13 2012 00:07 GMT

#178

MSC: Energize was cool and probably underexplored, but it seems it was making harder to balance other spellcasters - the oracle mainly. I also see an issue with energizing your initial sentry to hallucinate and have very early free scouting at no risk. But Blizzard please add another defensive spell to MC. I don't like Purify being detector, that will kill DT and Banshee early harass.

Widow mine: Good nerf in the setup time. But this unit is going to break the cloaking-detecting balance of the game, that is currently good. Instead of redesigning that balance, I would rather make the widow mine temporary loose its cloaking when firing.

Oracle: Please remove Purify detection and bring back Revelation detection. The buff to entomb is nice to encourage stargate play, but I still see an issue in not doing real economical damage long term. What if entomb would damage mineral patches, besides blocking mining? I mean the mineral patch will loose x minerals per second when entombed. Also the void sifon should not cost energy when casted, it should cost energy while damaging, something like the current ghost cloak ability. This way, the void sifon would encourage moving and microing the Oracle.

Sentry: I am not sure how I feel about the hallucination change... it makes scouting so easy, but at a cost of 2 FF that could be essential in defending early rushes... good to test anyway.

Tempest: I am finally lost about this unit's role. These changes make it more viable mid-game, but a rework of the void-ray (currently useless after so many nerfs) would just be enough.

Viper: Great change. Zerg is soooooo beautiful in HOTS...

Hall0wed

United States8486 Posts

October 13 2012 00:09 GMT

#179

Just what zerg needs, more easy and early defense. -_-;; RIP cloaked units.

Other than the zerg changes I like it. Still waiting on the time when they start changing current units though.

Belha

Italy2850 Posts

October 13 2012 00:09 GMT

#180

On October 13 2012 08:56 Foudzing wrote:

They deleted the Warhound, first mistake, sure it was op, but it just needed some nerf in DPS or speed and an increase in the cost. But no, IT'S OP KILL IT WITH FIRE!

You need to calm down and analyze stuff better. Warhound problem was beyond their OP status. I was a freaking 1a uber flat unit. Worst units design wise from SC2 WoL are Roaches and Marauders. The warhound was the new king of the hill.