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Immortals and HTs now hard counters mech again T¨vP. Just the addition of the Battle Hellion alone can't do anything against this composition. Maybe some innovative way of using Widow Mines can help, but it's something that is not intuitive. As Browder says, i can't see working in my head. Bio in TvP can get refreshed with some Widow Mine clever usage. Tempest + Carriers should be a hard counter too.
Terran still need something new, something "core" to be able to face up, at least, Immortals. I still prefer a overnerfed Warhound than nothing.
I loved the fact that Blizzard listened community/pro feedback, but i really thought that they should wait a little more before this patch. At least 2 or 3 weeks, everyone was still on the hate bandwagon against the Warhound instead of think by themselves ways to deal with it. I really think that pros really are overstimating their knowledge and abilities about the new units. Even with SC2 being a easier game, you shouldn't be able to master a new unit with just a handful of games. Even the Warhound as simple as it were, it wasn't completely figured out. I was really disapointed with some pros saying that some strategy/unit "sucked" trying it for only one or two times. You really can't make a assumption like that without a extensive practice and intensive analyse over replays, etc. The worst part were some pros making assumptions after games they were floating 1/2/3K with a non-maxed armies, that means you macro sucked, and if you macro sucked, you can't make any assumption strategic/tatical wise.
I really hope that the Pros figure out a non-gimmicky way to go Mech in TvP, but i highly doubt for now. Everyone seems so childish in the way they are looking to the game.
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I haven't really followed HotS that much. Why is the Warhound so hated? Just because it was too strong?
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On September 15 2012 10:29 Herect wrote:
Immortals and HTs now hard counters mech again T¨vP. Just the addition of the Battle Hellion alone can't do anything against this composition. Maybe some innovative way of using Widow Mines can help, but it's something that is not intuitive. As Browder says, i can't see working in my head. Bio in TvP can get refreshed with some Widow Mine clever usage. Tempest + Carriers should be a hard counter too.
Terran still need something new, something "core" to be able to face up, at least, Immortals. I still prefer a overnerfed Warhound than nothing.
I loved the fact that Blizzard listened community/pro feedback, but i really thought that they should wait a little more before this patch. At least 2 or 3 weeks, everyone was still on the hate bandwagon against the Warhound instead of think by themselves ways to deal with it. I really think that pros really are overstimating their knowledge and abilities about the new units. Even with SC2 being a easier game, you shouldn't be able to master a new unit with just a handful of games. Even the Warhound as simple as it were, it wasn't completely figured out. I was really disapointed with some pros saying that some strategy/unit "sucked" trying it for only one or two times. You really can't make a assumption like that without a extensive practice and intensive analyse over replays, etc. The worst part were some pros making assumptions after games they were floating 1/2/3K with a non-maxed armies, that means you macro sucked, and if you macro sucked, you can't make any assumption strategic/tatical wise.
I really hope that the Pros figure out a non-gimmicky way to go Mech in TvP, but i highly doubt for now. Everyone seems so childish in the way they are looking to the game.
Nothing? They already confirmed they will add in something for Terran.
It is just beta.
Nobody is talking about how to deal with the Warhound.
People are talking about what the Warhound can bring to the game.
The Warhound balance design and how it works is just really boring.
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Whoa... now I wanna play this sooooo bad
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So now Terrans has 1 semi-new unit: battle hellion and 1 new "unit" widow mine left in HOTS.
At least before the next patch comes, Terran should just play like how they play during WOL era zzz
Oh yea some personal nagging from me (you can ignore this),
While Terran is a race who needs to be aggressive early game: they delay the tech of battle hellion
While Terran will be most ineffective if they just turtle in their base: They want to force us to use the widow mine
While if Terran wants to turtle they would like to go mech: They remove the warhound.
Seriously if they want late game to be harder for Terran race, fine i'll take it. But to be fair please don't reduce our early aggression options? What Blizzard doing now is to let zergtoss having a more peaceful early game so that terran can have a harder late game, what a joke
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I have heard/read multiple times that the biggest issue with mech vs toss are chargelots and battle hellions seem to decimate chargelots...why then does everyone think "no warhound, no mech PvT" if protoss ground got no change to it and mech got battle hellions and eventually balanced widow mines.
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On September 15 2012 10:40 gengka wrote:
So now Terrans has 1 semi-new unit: battle hellion and 1 new "unit" widow mine left in HOTS.
At least before the next patch comes, Terran should just play like how they play during WOL era zzz
Oh yea some personal nagging from me (you can ignore this),
While Terran is a race who needs to be aggressive early game: they delay the tech of battle hellion
While Terran will be most ineffective if they just turtle in their base: They want to force us to use the widow mine
While if Terran wants to turtle they would like to go mech: They remove the warhound.
Seriously if they want late game to be harder for Terran race, fine i'll take it. But to be fair please don't reduce our early aggression options? What Blizzard doing now is to let zergtoss having a more peaceful early game so that terran can have a harder late game, what a joke
Good thing they didn't buff the reaper into an excellent early game unit.
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Mech does not have a problem with air!!! Mech is not played because bio is better.. geeez....
Main problem is chargelots AND battle helion + mines are perfect solutions.
Terrans who are crying to see warhound gone doing so because they lost a broken unit :D
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On September 15 2012 10:44 Silver777 wrote:
I have heard/read multiple times that the biggest issue with mech vs toss are chargelots and battle hellions seem to decimate chargelots...why then does everyone think "no warhound, no mech PvT" if protoss ground got no change to it and mech got battle hellions and eventually balanced widow mines.
Definitely more viable than before if  doesn't go air. Not sure if good enough to be standard though (with the current numbers).
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On September 15 2012 10:40 gengka wrote:
So now Terrans has 1 semi-new unit: battle hellion and 1 new "unit" widow mine left in HOTS.
At least before the next patch comes, Terran should just play like how they play during WOL era zzz
Oh yea some personal nagging from me (you can ignore this),
While Terran is a race who needs to be aggressive early game: they delay the tech of battle hellion
While Terran will be most ineffective if they just turtle in their base: They want to force us to use the widow mine
While if Terran wants to turtle they would like to go mech: They remove the warhound.
Seriously if they want late game to be harder for Terran race, fine i'll take it. But to be fair please don't reduce our early aggression options? What Blizzard doing now is to let zergtoss having a more peaceful early game so that terran can have a harder late game, what a joke
And protoss are playing the exact same as they did in WoL as well. Anytime a protoss uses the new garbage units they lost.
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Operation remove the warhound has been a success! = )
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On September 15 2012 10:28 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 10:23 Shikyo wrote:
Wonder how they're going to change the Warhound.
The Protoss Capital Ship changes totally confuse me. They add carrier but then reduce Tempest range. Aren't their roles going to completely overlap? Uh what? Tempest dps is complete shit. Carrier has the highest dps in the game upgraded. How do those roles overlap?
With Tempest having such low range don't see much point in them unless they build like 1-2 for poking
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On September 15 2012 10:39 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 10:29 Herect wrote:
Immortals and HTs now hard counters mech again T¨vP. Just the addition of the Battle Hellion alone can't do anything against this composition. Maybe some innovative way of using Widow Mines can help, but it's something that is not intuitive. As Browder says, i can't see working in my head. Bio in TvP can get refreshed with some Widow Mine clever usage. Tempest + Carriers should be a hard counter too.
Terran still need something new, something "core" to be able to face up, at least, Immortals. I still prefer a overnerfed Warhound than nothing.
I loved the fact that Blizzard listened community/pro feedback, but i really thought that they should wait a little more before this patch. At least 2 or 3 weeks, everyone was still on the hate bandwagon against the Warhound instead of think by themselves ways to deal with it. I really think that pros really are overstimating their knowledge and abilities about the new units. Even with SC2 being a easier game, you shouldn't be able to master a new unit with just a handful of games. Even the Warhound as simple as it were, it wasn't completely figured out. I was really disapointed with some pros saying that some strategy/unit "sucked" trying it for only one or two times. You really can't make a assumption like that without a extensive practice and intensive analyse over replays, etc. The worst part were some pros making assumptions after games they were floating 1/2/3K with a non-maxed armies, that means you macro sucked, and if you macro sucked, you can't make any assumption strategic/tatical wise.
I really hope that the Pros figure out a non-gimmicky way to go Mech in TvP, but i highly doubt for now. Everyone seems so childish in the way they are looking to the game. Nothing? They already confirmed they will add in something for Terran. It is just beta. Nobody is talking about how to deal with the Warhound. People are talking about what the Warhound can bring to the game. The Warhound balance design and how it works is just really boring.
I'm not an adept of the idea "a simple unit implies in a more simple gameplay". The most boring unit design wise is the Marine, just a man with a gun. Still, he's used in various styles and styles with multiple functions. In the end, what it makes a unit interesting or not is the way that interacts with other units. In some cases, even a spellcaster or a non-commom unit can be gimmcky and gamebreaking (Infestors? Collossus? Broodlords?). IMO, a units that kills a entire gamestyle or hard counters a unit without proper micro/positioning is really a boring unit (Immortals fits perfectly this description, Viking and Corruptors too in some way). The Warhound with proper stats could fit the game really well with some awesome sinergy with Tanks and Hellions. What i don't like (and the community hated it) is that the Warhound was almost a complete standalone unit that doesn't required any support at all in almost all MU, and both Toss and Zerg coudn't rely on upgrade/economy to push back WH attacks/all-ins or make Warhound heavy compositions become shit.
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On September 15 2012 10:44 Silver777 wrote:
I have heard/read multiple times that the biggest issue with mech vs toss are chargelots and battle hellions seem to decimate chargelots...why then does everyone think "no warhound, no mech PvT" if protoss ground got no change to it and mech got battle hellions and eventually balanced widow mines.
any terran will tell you that the core unit of a mech composition is the tanks. While tanks are good in numbers, their splash damage is a 2-edge sword. by removing the mobility of the hellions, yes they can become the meat shields for the tanks. However the inability to kite means they will receive friendly fire from the tanks once the chargelots charge in. This is the same problem as the marine tank composition vs the zerg when the speedlings charge in. while at least you can split the marines i don't think it will be easy to do the same on transformed battle hellions.
but anyway terrans can always micro and target the stalkers with tank shots while target the chargelots with BH. We are a race who always need to adapt anyway. I encourage those terrans who are lucky to be in HOTS beta to try out mech vs P even though the warhound is out at the moment. Thank you comrades
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While i agree the warhound was a really dumb unit, it feels like without it terran didnt get anything new..
The only reason battle hellions were cool was because it wasnt so risky to go hellions early game so mech is still shit against toss
I cant think of a terran on the planet whos excited about reapers seeing up cliffs, theyre purpose is the same and thats an early scout that might kill 1 or 2 workers.
widows mines have always been and will continue to be a waste of money.
Everyones still gonna go MMM againt toss and marine tank against zerg.
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Bahahaha! I can't wait to hear Pain User QQ next week on ITG. This week I got the sense that he knew it was coming but was in denial. It was very clear that Warhounds were his favorite thing in the expansion. Poor guy...
Other than that can't believe how much changed here. This is nuts. I wonder if they're going to replace the Warhound with anything else or if they are satisfied with the Terran arsenal as it stands without it.
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On September 15 2012 10:45 Silver777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 10:40 gengka wrote:
So now Terrans has 1 semi-new unit: battle hellion and 1 new "unit" widow mine left in HOTS.
At least before the next patch comes, Terran should just play like how they play during WOL era zzz
Oh yea some personal nagging from me (you can ignore this),
While Terran is a race who needs to be aggressive early game: they delay the tech of battle hellion
While Terran will be most ineffective if they just turtle in their base: They want to force us to use the widow mine
While if Terran wants to turtle they would like to go mech: They remove the warhound.
Seriously if they want late game to be harder for Terran race, fine i'll take it. But to be fair please don't reduce our early aggression options? What Blizzard doing now is to let zergtoss having a more peaceful early game so that terran can have a harder late game, what a joke Good thing they didn't buff the reaper into an excellent early game unit.
We shall see if the reaper changes really give the unit the ability of causing more early damage. I hope the terrans try reapers out more in the beta.
However a delay in the Battle Hellion transform tech is already a fact that you cannot deny. Just like the speed upgrade of reaper in the past. Without the earlier speed reapers were not use as often as it been anymore
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Warhound out and Carrier is in..... i WILL be buying HOTS after all
jk, i was always going to buy it, im just happier now
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On September 15 2012 11:06 Achaia wrote:
Bahahaha! I can't wait to hear Pain User QQ next week on ITG. This week I got the sense that he knew it was coming but was in denial. It was very clear that Warhounds were his favorite thing in the expansion. Poor guy...
Other than that can't believe how much changed here. This is nuts. I wonder if they're going to replace the Warhound with anything else or if they are satisfied with the Terran arsenal as it stands without it.
Almost certain they'll be reworking Warhounding and adding it back eventually. I really don't think they're completely removing the unit. Maybe they'll change appearance / rename it too but yeah. Terran will get something.
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How about we remove all of the A-Move units while we are at it. Terran doesn't need Thors or BCs. I'm sure Toss could do without Zealots, Archons, Colosus, Immortals, Void Rays, and Carriers. And Zerg obviously doesn't need Roaches, Hyrdas, Zerglings, Corruptors, or Broodlords. In fact, why dont we just give every race palette swaps of Marines, Marauders, Stalkers, Banelings, and Dropships. Micro all the units.
sigh.
Just because the Warhound was an A-Move unit doesn't mean it was bad. It filled a whole that allowed for a completely new playstyle for Terran. That is awesome. Warhound's stats and damage output and costs may have been off, but it stilled filled a role that enabled a new playstyle. And why? Because internet white knights can't trust a gaming company to make design the game themselves, when the designers obviously have more experience than the collective internet. So sick of crying and whining. Starcraft is becoming less and less interesting every day because of shit like this.
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EPT
