EPTingame clock still not changed? - Page 4
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
On September 07 2012 03:28 tztztz wrote: i'm not stupid, i never said it take zero effort to fix it, but don't make it sound like it's too hart for blizzard to fix it in a reasonable amount of time, because its not, and they failed to do it. it's basically their job, and they failed to do it. i don't have to know anything about programming to know that progamming a clock is a lot easier than programming new units and all the other new features in HotS. One, I can't imagine this being simple at all. They would probably have to change the coding for at least a large majority of the game. Second, it's absolutely not a high priority for them at the moment. They have a TON of people working on HotS right now, and that's a MAJOR priority to them. Fixing an in-game clock that works perfectly? HAH. Yeah, we should totally slow down development on HotS so we can burn our time fixing something as insignificant as that. Don't like it? TURN IT OFF. And if you think it's simple to fix the in-game clock to real-time, imagine the effect it has on the game. Will the clock reflect real time while production tooltips reflect real time? Okay. Say we change the tooltips. What happens when we change the game speed settings? Will the clock still reflect real time? Or a slower version of real time? Say it still reflects real time. Do we redo the tooltips again to reflect that? Not only do tooltips reflect this, but attack timers as well. EVERYTHING would need to be changed. Do we simply have the clock ALWAYS reflect real time and everything else in the game reflect game time? That would be by far the easiest change, and comparatively little would need to be changed. But HOW USELESS would that clock be? Unless you NEED to leave in exactly 15 minutes, that clock is 100% USELESS. If you need to leave in 15 minutes, there's something called an alarm or a timer. Every phone has an alarm and nearly every phone has a timer. And most phones can download an app for one if it didn't come standard. Not only that, I'm pretty sure your house or apartment has a clock with an alarm somewhere. You can also buy a timer for cooking, and that comes in handy. Hell, you can buy any variation of a timer and it will come in handy. Or you can just use the one on your phone. Now you can imagine why everyone thinks you're either crazy or stupid. What sort of benefit comes from changing the clock to real time. I haven't really seen any good argument for it (or any for that case). I can't really imagine a good argument for one either. Yes, there's a deeper meaning to your message... But next time, choose a better example of how Blizzard's failing instead of something so insanely insignificant as changing a perfectly good clock to reflect real time. They failed in balancing the game, they failed to act fairly to all 3 races, they have tried to lead the community in a direction that was both unwanted by the community and bad for the community (by not immediately having chat channels), and have done a lot of stupid changes that are pointless and meaningless. I mean, they're putting in an effort. I just wish they'd use their heads and be a bit more practical with it. How many people REALLY like the new battle.net UI? How many people every really liked battle.net 2.0? Sure, being able to hotkey quick match to F1 is nice, but you could basically already do the same thing in 1 click anyway... Why not be able to hotkey quick match 1v1 to F1? Overall, Blizzard feels more and more distanced with the community. I guess they're trying to get closer with always patching the game to suit the metagame instead of really letting the metagame develop itself fully... Yes, we all know Blizzard isn't doing the best job in the world with their products. We know they aren't going in the best direction with their products... But at least they're still putting in some effort... If you put in at least as much effort into your post as they did, you wouldn't have looked like a ranting lunatic. Fix the game clock... Pfft... You have more note-worthy things in your life to concern yourself with (I hope). | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
On September 08 2012 09:59 RyLai wrote: What sort of benefit comes from changing the clock to real time. I haven't really seen any good argument for it (or any for that case). I can't really imagine a good argument for one either. It's confusing and counter-intuitive that seconds on the game clock aren't actually seconds, none of the tooltips reflect real time, and the apm counter doesn't actually tell you your apm. A. Man I just played a crazy 30 minute game. B. 30 real minutes or 30 blizzard minutes? A. What's your apm? B. 150 A. Real time apm or blizzard time apm? A. Take your gas about a minute after you expand. B. A minute game time or real time? Shit's confusing, yo. Put the clock in real time and have the tooltips update based on game speed. Games on battlenet are all played on faster and people playing single player probably don't even turn the clock on (or need it). Who really cares if 5 minutes on the clock on normal speed isn't the same place in the game as 5 minutes on faster? That will never, ever be an issue. The OP and I care about this because it's something Blizzard could have easily fixed over 2 years ago, unlike major balance discussions and redesigns. The clock has only become controversial because they kept it fucked up for 2.5 years and people got used to it being fucked up. Now you've all got Blizzard clock Stockholm syndrome or some shit. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done? You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW' everything you know is wrong dude. seriously, what kind of magic view of the world in general and computers in particular do you have that makes it HARD to make a CLOCK display TIME. anyone with the map editor could prolly do it in 3 minutes... the clock issue is the same as with other ai issues that could have been fixed in WoL beta... - like people being able to pick their colors - chat channels that work in an intuitive way - a b.net interface that isnt total shit either no one cares at blizzard cuz they are busy counting the money they get from their fanboy suckers (so sad to see a horrible game like diablo 3 selling millions of copies), or they are just incompetent, or both | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On September 08 2012 15:45 summerloud wrote: everything you know is wrong dude. seriously, what kind of magic view of the world in general and computers in particular do you have that makes it HARD to make a CLOCK display TIME. anyone with the map editor could prolly do it in 3 minutes... the clock issue is the same as with other ai issues that could have been fixed in WoL beta... - like people being able to pick their colors - chat channels that work in an intuitive way - a b.net interface that isnt total shit either no one cares at blizzard cuz they are busy counting the money they get from their fanboy suckers (so sad to see a horrible game like diablo 3 selling millions of copies), or they are just incompetent, or both What kind of magical fucking bullshit world do you live in where you think you can just change the time for one thing in game and not have it affect EVERYTHING else. So you want to change the clock to real time? What the fuck are you going to do about every single tool tip in the game. Attack times. Attack delays. DPS. You just gonna leave that shit alone? Let it display that my stalker makes in 41 seconds when in reality it makes it in 37? Think about more than just your stupid little fucking clock, because you have to change the entire game to change that clock. Sigh. People who can't think make me rage. | ||
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change. you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol | ||
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SC2ShoWTimE
Germany722 Posts
changing the time would destroy like every timing people figured out for basically no reason. they should have changed it 2 years ago but now it is too late to be worth it in my opinion. | ||
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Dyme
Germany523 Posts
It would either look really ugly with build times like 16,8 seconds or mess up what little balance we'll have left in HotS. | ||
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On September 08 2012 09:59 RyLai wrote: One, I can't imagine this being simple at all. They would probably have to change the coding for at least a large majority of the game. Second, it's absolutely not a high priority for them at the moment. They have a TON of people working on HotS right now, and that's a MAJOR priority to them. Fixing an in-game clock that works perfectly? HAH. Yeah, we should totally slow down development on HotS so we can burn our time fixing something as insignificant as that. Don't like it? TURN IT OFF. And if you think it's simple to fix the in-game clock to real-time, imagine the effect it has on the game. Will the clock reflect real time while production tooltips reflect real time? Okay. Say we change the tooltips. What happens when we change the game speed settings? Will the clock still reflect real time? Or a slower version of real time? Say it still reflects real time. Do we redo the tooltips again to reflect that? Not only do tooltips reflect this, but attack timers as well. EVERYTHING would need to be changed. Do we simply have the clock ALWAYS reflect real time and everything else in the game reflect game time? That would be by far the easiest change, and comparatively little would need to be changed. But HOW USELESS would that clock be? Unless you NEED to leave in exactly 15 minutes, that clock is 100% USELESS. If you need to leave in 15 minutes, there's something called an alarm or a timer. Every phone has an alarm and nearly every phone has a timer. And most phones can download an app for one if it didn't come standard. Not only that, I'm pretty sure your house or apartment has a clock with an alarm somewhere. You can also buy a timer for cooking, and that comes in handy. Hell, you can buy any variation of a timer and it will come in handy. Or you can just use the one on your phone. Now you can imagine why everyone thinks you're either crazy or stupid. What sort of benefit comes from changing the clock to real time. I haven't really seen any good argument for it (or any for that case). I can't really imagine a good argument for one either. Yes, there's a deeper meaning to your message... But next time, choose a better example of how Blizzard's failing instead of something so insanely insignificant as changing a perfectly good clock to reflect real time. They failed in balancing the game, they failed to act fairly to all 3 races, they have tried to lead the community in a direction that was both unwanted by the community and bad for the community (by not immediately having chat channels), and have done a lot of stupid changes that are pointless and meaningless. I mean, they're putting in an effort. I just wish they'd use their heads and be a bit more practical with it. How many people REALLY like the new battle.net UI? How many people every really liked battle.net 2.0? Sure, being able to hotkey quick match to F1 is nice, but you could basically already do the same thing in 1 click anyway... Why not be able to hotkey quick match 1v1 to F1? Overall, Blizzard feels more and more distanced with the community. I guess they're trying to get closer with always patching the game to suit the metagame instead of really letting the metagame develop itself fully... Yes, we all know Blizzard isn't doing the best job in the world with their products. We know they aren't going in the best direction with their products... But at least they're still putting in some effort... If you put in at least as much effort into your post as they did, you wouldn't have looked like a ranting lunatic. Fix the game clock... Pfft... You have more note-worthy things in your life to concern yourself with (I hope). i don't get why you are trying to argue the benefit of the game clock showing real time. isn't it obvious? if blizzard would change the clock to real time, everyone, and i mean EVERYONE, even you, would be happy, so i don't get why you have to represent a counter position here. all blizzard has to do is make the fastest game speed (and ONLY the fastest game speed) be real time and change the tooltip and the attack cooldown numbers. thats exactly what you said, but when you say it you capitalize the word EVERYTHING and make it sound like it takes for ages. i would say it's a one week work for a single person. no, it's not the highest priority, but they had a person called allen working on it for months a couple months ago. you would imagine they would have thought about all the concern you listed before paying someone to work on it, right? and we still have this messed up clock. either dustin browder lied in the interview, or this guy failed to do his job, which would be absurd. anyway, no i'm not stupid or crazy. i don't know how much you think i care about this clock, but I can assure you it's not more than a reasonable amount. and actually we should even care more. because thats basically the first thing someone who doesn't play the game but watches esports will notice. he will be like "whats wrong with the clock?" and there is no satisfying answer to this question. whatever you say to this person, he will be like "lol, seriously? all the other esports, most of them even f2p, are able to make useful game clocks and blizzard is not? lolololol" | ||
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On September 08 2012 18:51 Dyme wrote: I think the reason they can't do it is because Marines will build for (and I'm making these numbers up) 20,61245 seconds SCVs for 14,785 seconds etc. It would either look really ugly with build times like 16,8 seconds or mess up what little balance we'll have left in HotS. imagine we would have real time from the beginning, and know blizzard would say "hey guys, this game is impossible to balance in real time, so we are going to rescale the time to blizzard time, so the game will be not only balanced, but will be balanced with non-ugly numbers. but this means the clock will now tick a little bit faster, i hope you're ok with that." would be stupid, right? | ||
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On September 08 2012 18:42 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: why should blizzard change the clock after 2 years? when we talk about game related things it is always blizzard time so why would anyone get confused by it. lol the irony | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
There are other ways to do it as well. They can update all the values for all the units in the map editor that reflect blizzard-time (something you can easily do with an automated tool) and then somewhere change the number which says '1 second = xxx game cycles'. Voila. Now they just need to check all the build times and round them up or down, which is okay since it's only beta. What actually worries me is that Blizzard bothered introducing things like APM and game clocks without accounting for the game not being played on normal speed. It strikes me that in the planning process for these things they had to know the strange effect using blizzard-time would have on the outcome and in fact, they introduced the game clock pretty late in development. They certainly did not need to have that in the game, it's mostly just an extra, so I really feel like it was a bit silly by Blizzard to introduce a clock and not fix the real-time / blizzard-time issue first. | ||
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ScoSteSal
United States54 Posts
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Mstring
Australia510 Posts
I think I've spent more time writing this post than I have dealing with any 'issues' relating to the in game timer not ticking at the same rate as a clock. Yes, 1 real second is 1.38 game seconds and I promise you'll get over it eventually XD | ||
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moskonia
Israel1448 Posts
On September 08 2012 18:15 tztztz wrote: you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol No No... It was actually really dumb  but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter. | ||
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tns
1054 Posts
Just let fast & fastest for Campain ;D Remember Ladder games in BW? hahaha... | ||
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Tedde93
Sweden169 Posts
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On September 09 2012 00:11 moskonia wrote: No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second. | ||
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yeastiality
Canada374 Posts
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"? the fact that you can't develop an internal rhythm for anything in game, so any "timing" you do is done by glancing at the awkwardly placed clock contrast this with timing items in quake-style games (which can be done many different ways: intuition, constant glancing, etc), and consider that there's no reason to have it not be real time...and the right answer seems obvious | ||
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bellsNkeys
United States52 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:43 tztztz wrote: you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second. Having an accelerated clock makes for easier timings so things will be smoother. Timing are much more precise in let's say 5 Blizzard seconds opposed to 5 real time seconds. You want Blizzard to change all the tooltips, rebalance around new timings for every unit and structure, and have players figure out/exploit early game timings...just so the clock will be in real time? Makes no sense in that perspective. Don't sit here and tell me rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 for everything will change nothing. Toss was whining when zealot timing was nerfed by 5 Blizz seconds and same with Terran bunkers and such. Your argument about balance is terrible. "Hey the game isn't balanced now anyways, so doesn't matter if we throw it more out of whack." Imagine if every balance decision came with that same mindset. I'm pretty sure when Blizzard was making the game they realized the exact timings they wanted were in the realm of fractions of seconds so they made their own game clock instead of wasting their time forcing everything to look nice in real world time for the sake of the few minority of people that are anal about it. | ||
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