when dustin browder said they're going to fix the ingame clock "pretty soon" so it will be real time instead of blizzard time, i didn't thought i had to wait until hots, because you know, how hard could it be to fix this with a patch or something. now we have the beta and there is still no change on the ingame clock.
seriously, the fact that blizzard is not able or not willing enough to fix the easiest thing about WoL you could think of is ridiculous. is it because we are not vocal enough about it? is it because nobody cares? why can't blizzard JUST ONCE make a useful qol change without the community demanding it.
and no, i'm not making a big deal out of it. i couldn't care less about the ingame clock. it's not about the clock, but about how less blizzard cares about their products. and it's not even like we expected anything special. we all know they don't care as much as they used to anymore, but not fixing the ingame clock? seriously blizzard? there is no reason at all to not fix this. not for a multi million dollar company like blizzard.
in times of more and more quality f2p games rising, it's absurd to realize that i'm gonna spend at least 40 euro for a game with a broken clock. it's almost funny.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
On September 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote: Clearly because it was not fixed during the first three days of the closed beta, it will never be fixed. It is totally a reason to not buy HotS.
wanna bet? besides, i never said in not gonna buy it.
There must be an option to toggle between Blizzard time and real time, and it will change all ingame descriptions to real time or vice-versa. I mean if we chose real time format, it will convert time displaying at description for worker build process from 17 seconds to 15 (for example!)
I think Blizzard is comfortable with Blizzard-time. After all, why should Blizzard change their ways? Why not the rest of the world so inconsiderate to use a different definition of time?
I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
So a Spires tooltip wont state 100 seconds build time but 71,94 seconds... seems legit
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
i'm not stupid, i never said it take zero effort to fix it, but don't make it sound like it's too hart for blizzard to fix it in a reasonable amount of time, because its not, and they failed to do it. it's basically their job, and they failed to do it.
i don't have to know anything about programming to know that progamming a clock is a lot easier than programming new units and all the other new features in HotS.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
So a Spires tooltip wont state 100 seconds build time but 71,94 seconds... seems legit
how about make it 70 seconds? this certainly wont break the game
Btw, from a programming point of view this isn't hard. The reason Blizzard is hesitant has to do with the default speed being different, so nice values like 40 seconds become like 33 seconds, so it's weird.
The one downside of switching to real time is that time-resolution will be lower. Example: In ten minutes of real time we have 600 seconds (600 points of time) to which we can correlate the game events to. In Blizz time that resolution is about 40 % larger, so ten real minutes is about 14 bliz minutes, which means that we currently have 840 points of time to correlate events to.
Not that this is extremly important in pracice though...
Sigh, people bitching about worthless shit. So great. As has been stated, if they change it from blizzard time to real time they have to update every single tooltip about buildings and units. Why does it matter that we use blizzard time? It doesn't. It's not like it somehow affects your real life. Can't believe there's actually a thread on something that matters as little as this.
Do you want it to take 12.325 seconds to build a worker? Blizzard time is already ingrained in the game. They would need to change the time it takes to build, cast, recharge, or do ANYTHING. This means they would have to retest for balance as well as rewrite a bunch of things. Just leave it the way it is. There is absolutely no problem with having different times, especially with an in game clock.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
We have possibly hundreds of vital strategy timings memorized that are measured in blizzard seconds. Changing it now is retarded.
This is something that should have been changed in the WoL beta. What's really funny is that at the start of that beta, normal time didn't even exist. That's right, there was no speed setting in the game that would produce an scv in 17 seconds, despite what the tooltip said. Fast and slow speeds existed, but no normal. For some reason, someone at Blizzard found it important to fix that, but not to address the fact that everyone plays in faster and it screws up the clock and apm readouts as a result. It would be trivially easy for the tooltips to update themselves depending on game speed and to have a clock and apm measurements in real time. This wouldn't affect anything gameplay-wise -- it's simply cosmetic. The tooltips would have to be rounded off and they wouldn't be 100% accurate, but rounded tooltips already exist in the game as it is.
I would like the option/or the game to be in real time - that way I would have a better sense for how long abilities last based on tooltips (e.g. Force fields come to mind, where you can't count in your head in real time seconds (except if you convert) to know when to put up the next one / know when the enemies FFs run out - yes we all do have some idea of how long it is based on experience but it'd be nice to have a tooltip "duration" that you can use without looking at the clock in game).
As for strategy timings, I agree, but a lot of these timings (especially after 10min mark) will change due to new units in HotS and possible balancing that will happen during beta. I still agree though, it will be a bit of a hassle at first - but still I have a better measure in my head of how many real time minutes have passed than in game minutes etc.
I prefer it to be real time.
On September 07 2012 04:14 two_sheds wrote: The one downside of switching to real time is that time-resolution will be lower. Example: In ten minutes of real time we have 600 seconds (600 points of time) to which we can correlate the game events to. In Blizz time that resolution is about 40 % larger, so ten real minutes is about 14 bliz minutes, which means that we currently have 840 points of time to correlate events to.
Not that this is extremly important in pracice though...
Starcraft 2 must have way more points of time to correlate events to than mere seconds (just that in replays you can only jump to different times in terms of seconds). Otherwise an event that you do at 0.5 game time seconds would be in effect 0.5 seconds later or if this was the case in replays all events that happened on decimal points would accrue to the next second. So I believe changing to real time wouldn't change anything in terms of time resolution
On September 07 2012 04:17 Infernal_dream wrote: Sigh, people bitching about worthless shit. So great. As has been stated, if they change it from blizzard time to real time they have to update every single tooltip about buildings and units. Why does it matter that we use blizzard time? It doesn't. It's not like it somehow affects your real life. Can't believe there's actually a thread on something that matters as little as this.
if its worth asking dustin browder in an interview its worth making a thread about it. if it wouldn't matter, /r/starcraft wouldn't have ask this question, right?
i don't get what you are trying to argue here. dustin browder said it's stupid and he said they're working on it. so it matters to them too. they wouldn't hire someone to work on it if they would have a problem with updating all tooltips, thats the most obvious consequence of fixing the game clock. so there is this guy called allen, and he is working on it for "many many months" now, and "its driving him crazy". and now, here we are, hots beta, and my question is: what happend? how incompetent you have to be not being able to fix the easiest thing in the world despite working on it for months?
On September 07 2012 05:41 Androw wrote: Starcraft 2 must have way more points of time to correlate events to than mere seconds (just that in replays you can only jump to different times in terms of seconds). Otherwise an event that you do at 0.5 game time seconds would be in effect 0.5 seconds later or if this was the case in replays all events that happened on decimal points would accrue to the next second. So I believe changing to real time wouldn't change anything in terms of time resolution
Yes, of course the game itself does have some least amount of time in which one event can happen and it is for sure as you say a lot shorter than mere second, but we (viewers, players) dont. All we have is that time counter above minimap and the faster the counter goes, the larger the resolution. (for us viewers, players). Imagine if one ingame second would last 1 real minute - by 10 minute mark (real time), the ingame time counter would've moved only 10 times showing the time passed since the begginig of the game is 10 seconds, leaving us with only "10 time points" that we can than use when we want to say WHEN something happened. So things that are now occuring at 5:00, 5:30, 5:45 would have all happened at 0:05, and without any other way of meassuring time you would not be able to tell is it 5:00 or is it 5:50 and the 4 gate could come knocking.
Of course - the proposed change to realtime from Blizz time by the OP is nowhere near this exaggerated example, and the new time resolution would be more than sufficient
On September 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote: Clearly because it was not fixed during the first three days of the closed beta, it will never be fixed. It is totally a reason to not buy HotS.
wanna bet? besides, i never said in not gonna buy it.
I bet you also think that the units won't be changed at all too.
On September 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote: Clearly because it was not fixed during the first three days of the closed beta, it will never be fixed. It is totally a reason to not buy HotS.
That's not his point. It's incompetence to take this long to fix something like this.
On September 07 2012 07:55 j.k.l wrote: seriouly if this gets implemented people will need new timings... i know it was a mistake but you can't change it anymore
I bet you're going to need new timings anyway. Too many things have changed. This is the perfect time to fix this.
On September 07 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote: Clearly because it was not fixed during the first three days of the closed beta, it will never be fixed. It is totally a reason to not buy HotS.
I think when he mentioned changing the in-game clock to match real time, he didn't mean simply change the timer above the minimap. I think they're going to change everything in the game to match Faster as real time instead of Normal as real time. That's a bit of an overhaul.
On September 07 2012 07:55 j.k.l wrote: seriouly if this gets implemented people will need new timings... i know it was a mistake but you can't change it anymore
I bet you're going to need new timings anyway. Too many things have changed. This is the perfect time to fix this.
Well considering that, they didn't add it in HOTS beta. Either they forgot like blizzard does typically or they are against it.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
We have possibly hundreds of vital strategy timings memorized that are measured in blizzard seconds. Changing it now is retarded.
Yea, let's never change anything ever! I am so used to the Sun orbiting Earth, let's just keep thinking of it that way!
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
i'm not stupid, i never said it take zero effort to fix it, but don't make it sound like it's too hart for blizzard to fix it in a reasonable amount of time, because its not, and they failed to do it. it's basically their job, and they failed to do it.
i don't have to know anything about programming to know that progamming a clock is a lot easier than programming new units and all the other new features in HotS.
It'd be easy to do if it's just displaying the real time of everything (which would simply be dividing everything by 1.38, as 1.38 seems to be how fast faster plays at compared to regular time).
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
So a Spires tooltip wont state 100 seconds build time but 71,94 seconds... seems legit
True, but they could make it round to the first or 0 decimals (or let the player decide). In any case, a toggle would be win win with an option of rounding or not.
(Also funny thing - In BW a lot of times of things like upgrades were 266 for example. In SC2, they seem to have this obsession of requiring everything be dividable by 5 [with few exceptions like worker build times for example]. I doubt people would mind seeing the time of spine crawlers be 72.46 seconds or 72 seconds rounded.)
Warcraft III (unlike Starcraft series) actually had the fastest show real time. A bit odd that it didn't carry over (I guess the development teams weren't all the same). I guess Dustin Browder wanted to keep the tradition from SC1 while whoever the lead guy in WC3 who made fastest game speed, real time, wasn't there for SC2.
You seem to have a lot of anger. Why not make a discussion about it, like an adult would, rather than venting anger, frustration and blame about it, like a child would. Then again, this is TL...
The clock shouldnt be changed now. Too many timings and strategies and such rely on it currently. I say, just get used to it.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
We have possibly hundreds of vital strategy timings memorized that are measured in blizzard seconds. Changing it now is retarded.
Meh not really, better to change it early than later I say. It will fuck around with timings a bit, but honestly most pro players don't even need the clock for timings.
As for me and the rest of the masters or below population... It'll take you a couple of games to relearn your times.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
if you dont make a big deal out of it... why do you think this is threadworthy?
The easiest way ever to get people to be like "wow that sick" when they don't know shit about esports is to just straight up tell them "some of these guys have 400 clicks/key presses a minute". Now you can't do that when all the game has is 400 per blizzard minute, because the last thing you wanna do is confuse new people by explaining some weird different way of measuring time. But tbh every single time we have one of these games that lasts over an hour I always think to myself "well not a real hour, just a blizzard hour", and thats just bad for the game as a spectator sport, as a player sport (kinda hard to measure how much you actually played when all the game can tell you is how long it went in the wrong time format) and even more as something to tell others about.
This is actually a lot more threadworthy then many others threads on this site. Not having real time and being fine with it is kinda like being fine with no lan since everyone gets the same ping to battle.net. As I'd say the difference between no latency and the standard one to b.net should be the same factor as blizzard time to real time is...
Not a single point you raised has an constant impact on the game itself or its surroundings.
So you cant tell people "this guy has 400 clicks/key presses a minute"? Wow... a serious problem. How about you just tell them he has over 400 clicks/key presses a minute for an additional "wow effect" then? Do you really think that is waaaaaay worse then tooltips which say:
On September 07 2012 18:35 Charon1979 wrote: Not a single point you raised has an constant impact on the game itself or its surroundings.
So you cant tell people "this guy has 400 clicks/key presses a minute"? Wow... a serious problem. How about you just tell them he has over 400 clicks/key presses a minute for an additional "wow effect" then? Do you really think that is waaaaaay worse then tooltips which say:
Oh yeah the best way to introduce people is obviously to lie, so they can get back to me once they get into it. Did you really just compare something you can explain to people who never touched the game to a fucking tooltip? Really!?
Just fyi I remember artosis on some show making the exact same comment about how fucked up blizzard time is for the exact reason I named, funny to see how people react depending on who states something.
I dont get why people are that aggressive on this topic. It seems legit to me... It should have been fixed from the beginning. Of course Blizzard knows how to, and it wouldnt be time consuming to do it.
But they may wonder about the 2 problems raised in this topic: - Habits of players - Not round numbers....
(On my own, i dont care about those two, but it's just my opinion..)
@Lorch, he proposed to change the sentence "..400 clicks" to "...over 400 clicks", which is less precise, but not a lie. (but still irrelevant imo -_-)
On September 07 2012 18:50 Icks wrote: I dont get why people are that aggressive on this topic. It seems legit to me... It should have been fixed from the beginning. Of course Blizzard knows how to, and it wouldnt be time consuming to do it.
But they may wonder about the 2 problems raised in this topic: - Habits of players - Not round numbers....
(On my own, i dont care about those two, but it's just my opinion..)
@Lorch, he proposed to change the sentence "..400 clicks" to "...over 400 clicks", which is less precise, but not a lie.
Ah well sure thats a solid point and all, but is that a necessity when all it would take is a programmer so spend 30 minutes on fixing it?
On September 07 2012 03:30 Grumbels wrote: Btw, from a programming point of view this isn't hard. The reason Blizzard is hesitant has to do with the default speed being different, so nice values like 40 seconds become like 33 seconds, so it's weird.
Really what does it matter anyway? If it says 33 instead of 40, it doesn't change anything. If they get a build time with decimals they could just round it to the nearest intergere problem solved. If they get complicated numbers like alot of xx.5 then it might need more discussion but they could at least say that to the community.
On September 07 2012 18:50 Icks wrote: I dont get why people are that aggressive on this topic. It seems legit to me... It should have been fixed from the beginning. Of course Blizzard knows how to, and it wouldnt be time consuming to do it.
But they may wonder about the 2 problems raised in this topic: - Habits of players - Not round numbers....
(On my own, i dont care about those two, but it's just my opinion..)
@Lorch, he proposed to change the sentence "..400 clicks" to "...over 400 clicks", which is less precise, but not a lie.
Ah well sure thats a solid point and all, but is that a necessity when all it would take is a programmer so spend 30 minutes on fixing it?
30 minutes to rebalance the whole game? not bad... not bad...
In order to change the clock you have to:
1) rewrite EVERY tooltip containing time units (that alone is WAY more than "30 minutes") 2) round every number containing time units, cause no one wants to see "heals X every 1,39 seconds" 3) rebalance everything around the new numbers. Just rounding attackspeed for example can lead to an sick increase/decrease in DPS in higher unit numbers, so you also have to adjust damage. Rounded buildtimes also can have a serious impact.
So please stop spreading your fairytale about "just 30 minutes work"
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
i'm not stupid, i never said it take zero effort to fix it, but don't make it sound like it's too hart for blizzard to fix it in a reasonable amount of time, because its not, and they failed to do it. it's basically their job, and they failed to do it.
i don't have to know anything about programming to know that progamming a clock is a lot easier than programming new units and all the other new features in HotS.
There are other aspects to it as well. They don't have developers that have nothing else to do. They prioritize. That's normal in software development. You can't have everything. You have time constraints. I could bet you they have some very cool ideas they aren't implementing because they are doing something they consider more important.
knowing the 4 gate will hit at 6 minutes is easier then knowing it will hit at 4:45 or something like that . hope they dont change it .also is nice when you played a 1 hour game that in real time is much less .
They'd have to adjust build/research times and attack speeds to compensate (probably other things I'm not thinking of too) and it's just not that big of a deal in the end. Blizzard time moves faster than real time and it's been that way for well over a decade.
Ah well sure thats a solid point and all, but is that a necessity when all it would take is a programmer so spend 30 minutes on fixing it?
There are two solutions they can implement.
a) A joke of a solution: Multiplying the value by 1.38 and then outputting this in the timer. This would have tooltips wrong, end game timings on the score screens etc. Basically, it'd be a joke. That change would take more than 30 minutes to code, review, QA and approve.
b) A proper solution. Changing the core game engine 'frames' to use a smaller effective time slice, then tweaking the unit train times (or rounding on the tooltips), and checking balance. The proper solution would take literally man-months to complete - and may have corner cases that aren't fully understood until the job is complete - this would have inherent risk in creating serious balance/systemic bugs.
Please, stop thinking that professional games development teams can just open the source code, hack in a fix - and that's that. It's not how it works - it's far, far more complicated than that.
And what's the actual benefit from this change. In theory - any balance changes? No. Any difference in game play? No. An arbitary set of timings are adjusted to another set of arbitary timings? Yes.
I can see why Blizzard haven't prioritized this change in their roadmap - far more important things to consider.
On September 07 2012 18:50 Icks wrote: I dont get why people are that aggressive on this topic. It seems legit to me... It should have been fixed from the beginning. Of course Blizzard knows how to, and it wouldnt be time consuming to do it.
But they may wonder about the 2 problems raised in this topic: - Habits of players - Not round numbers....
(On my own, i dont care about those two, but it's just my opinion..)
@Lorch, he proposed to change the sentence "..400 clicks" to "...over 400 clicks", which is less precise, but not a lie.
Ah well sure thats a solid point and all, but is that a necessity when all it would take is a programmer so spend 30 minutes on fixing it?
30 minutes to rebalance the whole game? not bad... not bad...
In order to change the clock you have to:
1) rewrite EVERY tooltip containing time units (that alone is WAY more than "30 minutes") 2) round every number containing time units, cause no one wants to see "heals X every 1,39 seconds" 3) rebalance everything around the new numbers. Just rounding attackspeed for example can lead to an sick increase/decrease in DPS in higher unit numbers, so you also have to adjust damage. Rounded buildtimes also can have a serious impact.
So please stop spreading your fairytale about "just 30 minutes work"
You guys still don't get it. This would be an entirely cosmetic change with no adjustment made to the actual build times of anything. No rebalancing needed!
Boom, one line of code. Fixed. No need to manually change every tooltip in the unit data at all. Making a clock count in real seconds instead of game seconds is equally trivial, as are apm calculations.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
We have possibly hundreds of vital strategy timings memorized that are measured in blizzard seconds. Changing it now is retarded.
This. This, this and all this.
I know I have to back off when terrans get medivacs at 10. Know 5:40 isn't a good time to move my units out of my base if I suspect my opponent is 4gating in pvp. Why change this for a pointless reason
On September 07 2012 05:11 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:19 tztztz wrote:
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
whats wrong with blizzard time? how about measuring everthing in real time, how about that? i don't thing it's too much to ask for. lol, even dustin browder admits that it's stupid.
We have possibly hundreds of vital strategy timings memorized that are measured in blizzard seconds. Changing it now is retarded.
This. This, this and all this.
I know I have to back off when terrans get medivacs at 10. Know 5:40 isn't a good time to move my units out of my base if I suspect my opponent is 4gating in pvp. Why change this for a pointless reason
Almost all of those timings are going to be tentative again once HotS arrives anyway... It would be silly to change the clock now; it would be sensible to change the clock in the HotS beta.
Do you realize how stupid it is to be complaining about Blizzard time now. This far into the game?
When you think of how the entire game would have to be rehauled so that a 60-second build time would actually take 47.83 seconds of real time, how can you even complain about the clock? In addition, I want to add that ALL of the known timings and understanding of the game that have taken 2 years to fully discover and develop are based around "blizzard time"; changing this would screw all players to hell as they would have to learn a completely new set of timings.
I rely heavily on the blizz clock. I check zergs third at 4:30 - 5:00 I know I have to make something happen in pvz around the 9 min mark. I know I have to start worrying about drops at the 8 min mark in pvt
I would really hate it if they make it real time seconds instead but I guess it does make sense. Would hate the time it'd take to get used to it thought :p
I actually like the blizzard time. It doesn't really matter how fast time goes in game. With blizzard time, you always know after how many in game seconds for example a worker is built, regardless of game speed, which i find very usefull.
There are things that could have been done differently, like normalising it at faster speed instead of normal, because it would seem more natural.
Oh, but after reading the op, i guess you don't care about the clock. in that case, i would consider this thing of least importance during the introduction of hots (or any other) beta. >< Besides, the video is 10 months old, maybe there has been a priority shift? I don't know; but the point is, you don't either.
On September 07 2012 23:26 SC2John wrote: Do you realize how stupid it is to be complaining about Blizzard time now. This far into the game?
When you think of how the entire game would have to be rehauled so that a 60-second build time would actually take 47.83 seconds of real time, how can you even complain about the clock? In addition, I want to add that ALL of the known timings and understanding of the game that have taken 2 years to fully discover and develop are based around "blizzard time"; changing this would screw all players to hell as they would have to learn a completely new set of timings.
Literally, it doesn't matter. Let it go.
like people said, with hots, the game will most likely change so much that they have to learn new timings anyway. besides, don't make it sound like it's the most difficult thing in the world to get used to a couple of new numbers. they don't habe to learn every new timing ever developed in the history of sc2, only get used to the new numbers of the timings in the current meta, which probably takes a couple of days.
if you think thats a problem for players, you should give up playing sc2, because it's waaaaaay harder than memorizing a couple of numbers. not a single pro player would have a problem with fixing the clock, because knowing the exact times of the timings is the least of their worries, trust me.
It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
HotS is the best time to fix that, since the game is re balancing anyways ^^. It will take some time getting used to all the new timigns but at teh end it gives you a better tool for life (cause I am sure your brain is confused if you need to think in normal time and Blizz time when you chnage from teh game to real life )
On September 07 2012 23:26 SC2John wrote: Do you realize how stupid it is to be complaining about Blizzard time now. This far into the game?
When you think of how the entire game would have to be rehauled so that a 60-second build time would actually take 47.83 seconds of real time, how can you even complain about the clock? In addition, I want to add that ALL of the known timings and understanding of the game that have taken 2 years to fully discover and develop are based around "blizzard time"; changing this would screw all players to hell as they would have to learn a completely new set of timings.
Literally, it doesn't matter. Let it go.
like people said, with hots, the game will most likely change so much that they have to learn new timings anyway. besides, don't make it sound like it's the most difficult thing in the world to get used to a couple of new numbers. they don't habe to learn every new timing ever developed in the history of sc2, only get used to the new numbers of the timings in the current meta, which probably takes a couple of days.
if you think thats a problem for players, you should give up playing sc2, because it's waaaaaay harder than memorizing a couple of numbers. not a single pro player would have a problem with fixing the clock, because knowing the exact times of the timings is the least of their worries, trust me.
You have no clue what you're talking about. If you watch or listen to any pro player, they talk about exact specific timings, including very specific time ranges ("4 minutes to brood lords", "3 minutes after gas until speed", etc). Literally EVERY timing would be reset and have to be reworked in order to figure out specific timings. Even if I do a 1rax expand, I would have to play a game just to find out when my CC actually goes down, which is ridiculous. Then I would have to do it for cloaked banshees, a hellion drop, a stim timing, a thor timing, etc. Then I would have to do it for all races. Too much, too much.
Sc2 is very much a game of numbers, probability, and calculations. You have several triggers and non-triggers based on specific down-to-the-second timing (especially in high level ZvZ). You have already established exact timing windows for if you delay tech or kill an army or delay an expansion. Sc2 is all about time and numbers.
Resetting all of these would be a HUGE mistake, one that Blizzard won't actually do, I'm sure.
On September 07 2012 23:26 SC2John wrote: Do you realize how stupid it is to be complaining about Blizzard time now. This far into the game?
When you think of how the entire game would have to be rehauled so that a 60-second build time would actually take 47.83 seconds of real time, how can you even complain about the clock? In addition, I want to add that ALL of the known timings and understanding of the game that have taken 2 years to fully discover and develop are based around "blizzard time"; changing this would screw all players to hell as they would have to learn a completely new set of timings.
Literally, it doesn't matter. Let it go.
like people said, with hots, the game will most likely change so much that they have to learn new timings anyway. besides, don't make it sound like it's the most difficult thing in the world to get used to a couple of new numbers. they don't habe to learn every new timing ever developed in the history of sc2, only get used to the new numbers of the timings in the current meta, which probably takes a couple of days.
if you think thats a problem for players, you should give up playing sc2, because it's waaaaaay harder than memorizing a couple of numbers. not a single pro player would have a problem with fixing the clock, because knowing the exact times of the timings is the least of their worries, trust me.
You have no clue what you're talking about. If you watch or listen to any pro player, they talk about exact specific timings, including very specific time ranges ("4 minutes to brood lords", "3 minutes after gas until speed", etc). Literally EVERY timing would be reset and have to be reworked in order to figure out specific timings. Even if I do a 1rax expand, I would have to play a game just to find out when my CC actually goes down, which is ridiculous. Then I would have to do it for cloaked banshees, a hellion drop, a stim timing, a thor timing, etc. Then I would have to do it for all races. Too much, too much.
Sc2 is very much a game of numbers, probability, and calculations. You have several triggers and non-triggers based on specific down-to-the-second timing (especially in high level ZvZ). You have already established exact timing windows for if you delay tech or kill an army or delay an expansion. Sc2 is all about time and numbers.
Resetting all of these would be a HUGE mistake, one that Blizzard won't actually do, I'm sure.
Did you know BW doesn't have a game clock at all, and pro players were able to hit perfect timings nonetheless? You want to know what the new timing would be if the game clock was actually a clock? Divide the old one by 1.38 (or whatever it is). CC at 3:20? New time is 2:25, and I didn't even have to play a game! Too much work! Someone here has no clue what he's talking about, and it isn't the guy you replied to.
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
i'm not stupid, i never said it take zero effort to fix it, but don't make it sound like it's too hart for blizzard to fix it in a reasonable amount of time, because its not, and they failed to do it. it's basically their job, and they failed to do it.
i don't have to know anything about programming to know that progamming a clock is a lot easier than programming new units and all the other new features in HotS.
One, I can't imagine this being simple at all. They would probably have to change the coding for at least a large majority of the game.
Second, it's absolutely not a high priority for them at the moment. They have a TON of people working on HotS right now, and that's a MAJOR priority to them. Fixing an in-game clock that works perfectly? HAH. Yeah, we should totally slow down development on HotS so we can burn our time fixing something as insignificant as that. Don't like it? TURN IT OFF.
And if you think it's simple to fix the in-game clock to real-time, imagine the effect it has on the game. Will the clock reflect real time while production tooltips reflect real time? Okay. Say we change the tooltips. What happens when we change the game speed settings? Will the clock still reflect real time? Or a slower version of real time? Say it still reflects real time. Do we redo the tooltips again to reflect that? Not only do tooltips reflect this, but attack timers as well. EVERYTHING would need to be changed. Do we simply have the clock ALWAYS reflect real time and everything else in the game reflect game time? That would be by far the easiest change, and comparatively little would need to be changed. But HOW USELESS would that clock be? Unless you NEED to leave in exactly 15 minutes, that clock is 100% USELESS. If you need to leave in 15 minutes, there's something called an alarm or a timer. Every phone has an alarm and nearly every phone has a timer. And most phones can download an app for one if it didn't come standard. Not only that, I'm pretty sure your house or apartment has a clock with an alarm somewhere. You can also buy a timer for cooking, and that comes in handy. Hell, you can buy any variation of a timer and it will come in handy. Or you can just use the one on your phone.
Now you can imagine why everyone thinks you're either crazy or stupid. What sort of benefit comes from changing the clock to real time. I haven't really seen any good argument for it (or any for that case). I can't really imagine a good argument for one either.
Yes, there's a deeper meaning to your message... But next time, choose a better example of how Blizzard's failing instead of something so insanely insignificant as changing a perfectly good clock to reflect real time. They failed in balancing the game, they failed to act fairly to all 3 races, they have tried to lead the community in a direction that was both unwanted by the community and bad for the community (by not immediately having chat channels), and have done a lot of stupid changes that are pointless and meaningless. I mean, they're putting in an effort. I just wish they'd use their heads and be a bit more practical with it. How many people REALLY like the new battle.net UI? How many people every really liked battle.net 2.0? Sure, being able to hotkey quick match to F1 is nice, but you could basically already do the same thing in 1 click anyway... Why not be able to hotkey quick match 1v1 to F1? Overall, Blizzard feels more and more distanced with the community. I guess they're trying to get closer with always patching the game to suit the metagame instead of really letting the metagame develop itself fully... Yes, we all know Blizzard isn't doing the best job in the world with their products. We know they aren't going in the best direction with their products... But at least they're still putting in some effort... If you put in at least as much effort into your post as they did, you wouldn't have looked like a ranting lunatic.
Fix the game clock... Pfft... You have more note-worthy things in your life to concern yourself with (I hope).
On September 08 2012 09:59 RyLai wrote: What sort of benefit comes from changing the clock to real time. I haven't really seen any good argument for it (or any for that case). I can't really imagine a good argument for one either.
It's confusing and counter-intuitive that seconds on the game clock aren't actually seconds, none of the tooltips reflect real time, and the apm counter doesn't actually tell you your apm.
A. Man I just played a crazy 30 minute game. B. 30 real minutes or 30 blizzard minutes?
A. What's your apm? B. 150 A. Real time apm or blizzard time apm?
A. Take your gas about a minute after you expand. B. A minute game time or real time?
Shit's confusing, yo.
Put the clock in real time and have the tooltips update based on game speed. Games on battlenet are all played on faster and people playing single player probably don't even turn the clock on (or need it). Who really cares if 5 minutes on the clock on normal speed isn't the same place in the game as 5 minutes on faster? That will never, ever be an issue.
The OP and I care about this because it's something Blizzard could have easily fixed over 2 years ago, unlike major balance discussions and redesigns. The clock has only become controversial because they kept it fucked up for 2.5 years and people got used to it being fucked up. Now you've all got Blizzard clock Stockholm syndrome or some shit.
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
everything you know is wrong dude. seriously, what kind of magic view of the world in general and computers in particular do you have that makes it HARD to make a CLOCK display TIME.
anyone with the map editor could prolly do it in 3 minutes...
the clock issue is the same as with other ai issues that could have been fixed in WoL beta...
- like people being able to pick their colors
- chat channels that work in an intuitive way
- a b.net interface that isnt total shit
either no one cares at blizzard cuz they are busy counting the money they get from their fanboy suckers (so sad to see a horrible game like diablo 3 selling millions of copies), or they are just incompetent, or both
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
everything you know is wrong dude. seriously, what kind of magic view of the world in general and computers in particular do you have that makes it HARD to make a CLOCK display TIME.
anyone with the map editor could prolly do it in 3 minutes...
the clock issue is the same as with other ai issues that could have been fixed in WoL beta...
- like people being able to pick their colors
- chat channels that work in an intuitive way
- a b.net interface that isnt total shit
either no one cares at blizzard cuz they are busy counting the money they get from their fanboy suckers (so sad to see a horrible game like diablo 3 selling millions of copies), or they are just incompetent, or both
What kind of magical fucking bullshit world do you live in where you think you can just change the time for one thing in game and not have it affect EVERYTHING else. So you want to change the clock to real time? What the fuck are you going to do about every single tool tip in the game. Attack times. Attack delays. DPS. You just gonna leave that shit alone? Let it display that my stalker makes in 41 seconds when in reality it makes it in 37? Think about more than just your stupid little fucking clock, because you have to change the entire game to change that clock. Sigh. People who can't think make me rage.
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
why should blizzard change the clock after 2 years? when we talk about game related things it is always blizzard time so why would anyone get confused by it. changing the time would destroy like every timing people figured out for basically no reason. they should have changed it 2 years ago but now it is too late to be worth it in my opinion.
On September 07 2012 03:21 Duval wrote: I bet you know everything about the programming aspect of the clock. Ever thought that it might be not as easy as you think it is, else... it would be done?
You can easily play in real-time, except everything will be slower (obviously). For them to 'fix' blizz time they're going to have to change EVERY timing (build times etc), I doubt is as easy as 'LETS FIX THIS SHIT NOW'
i'm not stupid, i never said it take zero effort to fix it, but don't make it sound like it's too hart for blizzard to fix it in a reasonable amount of time, because its not, and they failed to do it. it's basically their job, and they failed to do it.
i don't have to know anything about programming to know that progamming a clock is a lot easier than programming new units and all the other new features in HotS.
One, I can't imagine this being simple at all. They would probably have to change the coding for at least a large majority of the game.
Second, it's absolutely not a high priority for them at the moment. They have a TON of people working on HotS right now, and that's a MAJOR priority to them. Fixing an in-game clock that works perfectly? HAH. Yeah, we should totally slow down development on HotS so we can burn our time fixing something as insignificant as that. Don't like it? TURN IT OFF.
And if you think it's simple to fix the in-game clock to real-time, imagine the effect it has on the game. Will the clock reflect real time while production tooltips reflect real time? Okay. Say we change the tooltips. What happens when we change the game speed settings? Will the clock still reflect real time? Or a slower version of real time? Say it still reflects real time. Do we redo the tooltips again to reflect that? Not only do tooltips reflect this, but attack timers as well. EVERYTHING would need to be changed. Do we simply have the clock ALWAYS reflect real time and everything else in the game reflect game time? That would be by far the easiest change, and comparatively little would need to be changed. But HOW USELESS would that clock be? Unless you NEED to leave in exactly 15 minutes, that clock is 100% USELESS. If you need to leave in 15 minutes, there's something called an alarm or a timer. Every phone has an alarm and nearly every phone has a timer. And most phones can download an app for one if it didn't come standard. Not only that, I'm pretty sure your house or apartment has a clock with an alarm somewhere. You can also buy a timer for cooking, and that comes in handy. Hell, you can buy any variation of a timer and it will come in handy. Or you can just use the one on your phone.
Now you can imagine why everyone thinks you're either crazy or stupid. What sort of benefit comes from changing the clock to real time. I haven't really seen any good argument for it (or any for that case). I can't really imagine a good argument for one either.
Yes, there's a deeper meaning to your message... But next time, choose a better example of how Blizzard's failing instead of something so insanely insignificant as changing a perfectly good clock to reflect real time. They failed in balancing the game, they failed to act fairly to all 3 races, they have tried to lead the community in a direction that was both unwanted by the community and bad for the community (by not immediately having chat channels), and have done a lot of stupid changes that are pointless and meaningless. I mean, they're putting in an effort. I just wish they'd use their heads and be a bit more practical with it. How many people REALLY like the new battle.net UI? How many people every really liked battle.net 2.0? Sure, being able to hotkey quick match to F1 is nice, but you could basically already do the same thing in 1 click anyway... Why not be able to hotkey quick match 1v1 to F1? Overall, Blizzard feels more and more distanced with the community. I guess they're trying to get closer with always patching the game to suit the metagame instead of really letting the metagame develop itself fully... Yes, we all know Blizzard isn't doing the best job in the world with their products. We know they aren't going in the best direction with their products... But at least they're still putting in some effort... If you put in at least as much effort into your post as they did, you wouldn't have looked like a ranting lunatic.
Fix the game clock... Pfft... You have more note-worthy things in your life to concern yourself with (I hope).
i don't get why you are trying to argue the benefit of the game clock showing real time. isn't it obvious? if blizzard would change the clock to real time, everyone, and i mean EVERYONE, even you, would be happy, so i don't get why you have to represent a counter position here.
all blizzard has to do is make the fastest game speed (and ONLY the fastest game speed) be real time and change the tooltip and the attack cooldown numbers. thats exactly what you said, but when you say it you capitalize the word EVERYTHING and make it sound like it takes for ages. i would say it's a one week work for a single person.
no, it's not the highest priority, but they had a person called allen working on it for months a couple months ago. you would imagine they would have thought about all the concern you listed before paying someone to work on it, right? and we still have this messed up clock. either dustin browder lied in the interview, or this guy failed to do his job, which would be absurd.
anyway, no i'm not stupid or crazy. i don't know how much you think i care about this clock, but I can assure you it's not more than a reasonable amount. and actually we should even care more. because thats basically the first thing someone who doesn't play the game but watches esports will notice. he will be like "whats wrong with the clock?" and there is no satisfying answer to this question. whatever you say to this person, he will be like "lol, seriously? all the other esports, most of them even f2p, are able to make useful game clocks and blizzard is not? lolololol"
On September 08 2012 18:51 Dyme wrote: I think the reason they can't do it is because Marines will build for (and I'm making these numbers up) 20,61245 seconds SCVs for 14,785 seconds etc.
It would either look really ugly with build times like 16,8 seconds or mess up what little balance we'll have left in HotS.
imagine we would have real time from the beginning, and know blizzard would say "hey guys, this game is impossible to balance in real time, so we are going to rescale the time to blizzard time, so the game will be not only balanced, but will be balanced with non-ugly numbers. but this means the clock will now tick a little bit faster, i hope you're ok with that." would be stupid, right?
On September 08 2012 18:42 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: why should blizzard change the clock after 2 years? when we talk about game related things it is always blizzard time so why would anyone get confused by it.
Why can't Blizzard do the same as for Diablo? You have advanced tooltips, which show you the real information and you have simple tooltips which show you basic information. Then you add an option somewhere which says 'show real-time / show blizzard-time' and all it does is change the advanced tooltips and the in-game clock. In fact, this option isn't even needed, the ability to hide advanced tooltips should be enough to protect casuals from the horror of weird numbers not divisible by 5. APM numbers and the duration of the game you get to see on the score screen should always be in real-time as well. This does take more than a few minutes of coding, but don't tell me they can't find an intern somewhere to devote half a week to changing all the tooltips.
There are other ways to do it as well. They can update all the values for all the units in the map editor that reflect blizzard-time (something you can easily do with an automated tool) and then somewhere change the number which says '1 second = xxx game cycles'. Voila. Now they just need to check all the build times and round them up or down, which is okay since it's only beta.
What actually worries me is that Blizzard bothered introducing things like APM and game clocks without accounting for the game not being played on normal speed. It strikes me that in the planning process for these things they had to know the strange effect using blizzard-time would have on the outcome and in fact, they introduced the game clock pretty late in development. They certainly did not need to have that in the game, it's mostly just an extra, so I really feel like it was a bit silly by Blizzard to introduce a clock and not fix the real-time / blizzard-time issue first.
actually this can all be solved very very easily: leave all tooltips/etc the same but make the numbers they are referring to be in real seconds instead of blizzard seconds, yes this would give more reaction time but again there is the question of whether the "strategic skill cap" alone is not vastly above human capacity (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6490580563?page=1)
I've come to like it being faster than "real-time" for the same reason I like to estimate in kilometers rather miles. You get more granularity when using whole numbers.
I think I've spent more time writing this post than I have dealing with any 'issues' relating to the in game timer not ticking at the same rate as a clock. Yes, 1 real second is 1.38 game seconds and I promise you'll get over it eventually XD
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
Wouldn't changing back form blizzard time to normal time be pretty detremental to everyone who has played the game for a long time (build orders, timing attacks etc).
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second.
On September 07 2012 03:13 Charon1979 wrote: whats wrong with "blizzard time" when everything ingame is measured in "blizzard time"?
the fact that you can't develop an internal rhythm for anything in game, so any "timing" you do is done by glancing at the awkwardly placed clock
contrast this with timing items in quake-style games (which can be done many different ways: intuition, constant glancing, etc), and consider that there's no reason to have it not be real time...and the right answer seems obvious
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second.
Having an accelerated clock makes for easier timings so things will be smoother. Timing are much more precise in let's say 5 Blizzard seconds opposed to 5 real time seconds. You want Blizzard to change all the tooltips, rebalance around new timings for every unit and structure, and have players figure out/exploit early game timings...just so the clock will be in real time? Makes no sense in that perspective. Don't sit here and tell me rounding to the nearest multiple of 5 for everything will change nothing. Toss was whining when zealot timing was nerfed by 5 Blizz seconds and same with Terran bunkers and such. Your argument about balance is terrible. "Hey the game isn't balanced now anyways, so doesn't matter if we throw it more out of whack." Imagine if every balance decision came with that same mindset.
I'm pretty sure when Blizzard was making the game they realized the exact timings they wanted were in the realm of fractions of seconds so they made their own game clock instead of wasting their time forcing everything to look nice in real world time for the sake of the few minority of people that are anal about it.
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second.
I'm pretty sure when Blizzard was making the game they realized the exact timings they wanted were in the realm of fractions of seconds so they made their own game clock instead of wasting their time forcing everything to look nice in real world time for the sake of the few minority of people that are anal about it.
if you really believe this than you are funny ^_^ . dustin browder himself admits in this interview that it was wrong.
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second.
I'm pretty sure when Blizzard was making the game they realized the exact timings they wanted were in the realm of fractions of seconds so they made their own game clock instead of wasting their time forcing everything to look nice in real world time for the sake of the few minority of people that are anal about it.
if you really believe this than you are funny ^_^ . dustin browder himself admits in this interview that it was wrong.
It's probably true. You think Blizzard made their own game clock to troll us? SC2 was in development for way too long for them to not take it into consideration. And btw I like how you took only my personal opinion out of the statement without quoting my reasoning for it. And you're funny if you think everyone spits the truth in interviews. It's better to say what people want to hear majority of the time rather than trying to convince a cult of what is better.
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second.
I'm pretty sure when Blizzard was making the game they realized the exact timings they wanted were in the realm of fractions of seconds so they made their own game clock instead of wasting their time forcing everything to look nice in real world time for the sake of the few minority of people that are anal about it.
if you really believe this than you are funny ^_^ . dustin browder himself admits in this interview that it was wrong.
It's probably true. You think Blizzard made their own game clock to troll us? SC2 was in development for way too long for them to not take it into consideration. And btw I like how you took only my personal opinion out of the statement without quoting my reasoning for it. And you're funny if you think everyone spits the truth in interviews. It's better to say what people want to hear majority of the time rather than trying to convince a cult of what is better.
i didn't quote your reasoning because i don't think it's true. its reasonable, and if it would be the truth there would be nothing to argue for me and i would accept the clock as it is, but is just don't think it's true.
i didn't say changing something ± 2.5 seconds wouldn't change anything. i'm just saying that i don't think its impossible so balance sc2 in real time. because if that was the truth, blizzard would have told us " look guys, there is a reason for this messed up clock, and thats balance, with real time there would be no way in hell that this game could be balanced" and not lie about it and tell us that it's stupid and there going to change is soon. why would they lie about it if there clock makes so much more sense than a real time clock like you make it sound? i don't think it has anything to do with not trying to convine a cult, because who gives a f*** about this clock anyway?^^
On September 08 2012 07:45 moskonia wrote: It would be actually pretty easy fix for them to do, but the problem is that it would create many wierd numbers, which is really not that fun to watch. If they change it they will have to re balance every unit time a bit (round up the number from, for example, 18.71 to the closer full number which is 19, that does only small change to balance, but it is a still a change.
you make it sound like it was a stroke of genius from blizzard to use blizzard time because they knew it would be impossible to balance the game with real time. lol
No No... It was actually really dumb but they did not think about it enough and so they ended up in a situation where changing the time will make the game either have small imbalances or ugly numbers. I think in HotS the can fix that issue but I just don't think they care enough (since it will be really a LOT of work to try to balance every single thing that was imbalanced a bit). I don't think it is that bad, while I would prefer it to be in normal time it doesn't really matter.
you assume that the game is perfectly 100% balanced right now, which of course is not true. I would say the game is farer away from perfect balance than the balance shift created by increasing a building time by 1 second.
I'm pretty sure when Blizzard was making the game they realized the exact timings they wanted were in the realm of fractions of seconds so they made their own game clock instead of wasting their time forcing everything to look nice in real world time for the sake of the few minority of people that are anal about it.
if you really believe this than you are funny ^_^ . dustin browder himself admits in this interview that it was wrong.
It's probably true. You think Blizzard made their own game clock to troll us? SC2 was in development for way too long for them to not take it into consideration. And btw I like how you took only my personal opinion out of the statement without quoting my reasoning for it. And you're funny if you think everyone spits the truth in interviews. It's better to say what people want to hear majority of the time rather than trying to convince a cult of what is better.
i didn't quote your reasoning because i don't think it's true. its reasonable, and if it would be the truth there would be nothing to argue for me and i would accept the clock as it is, but is just don't think it's true.
i didn't say changing something ± 2.5 seconds wouldn't change anything. i'm just saying that i don't think its impossible so balance sc2 in real time. because if that was the truth, blizzard would have told us " look guys, there is a reason for this messed up clock, and thats balance, with real time there would be no way in hell that this game could be balanced" and not lie about it and tell us that it's stupid and there going to change is soon. why would they lie about it if there clock makes so much more sense than a real time clock like you make it sound? i don't think it has anything to do with not trying to convine a cult, because who gives a f*** about this clock anyway?^^
You do. I think this discussion has essentially worn itself out now and now just become a flame thread. Let it go.
If this topic was about WoL beta I would agree 100%, but with knowing already timings for everything and as someone previously stated complete rebalancing and retiming everything is unnecessary, so long as apm is by real time not blizz time lol
EPT
![[image loading]](http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw8o0yvmHk1qcc8ul.jpg)
)
