EPTBlizz doesnt know how sc2 story ends - Page 12
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NastyMarine
United States1252 Posts
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Francis
Belize12 Posts
I agree that more should have been done however. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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-Xios
England79 Posts
On October 25 2010 21:00 Sixes wrote: I may be a little less of a Tolkien nerd but ... the Silmarillion was compiled by his son after his death using all of his work. So the last bit (essentially a 2 page version of the Lord of the Rings) could actually just be written after the Lord of the Rings. Also Blizzard may know the very end, just like Tolkien knew "Ring destroyed, Sauron beaten by Men, Elves leave, Realm of Men comes" that doesn't mean he knew how it would happen in any kind of detail. Not qrguing that Tolkien is a genius, just that most writers only have a barebones framework initially. yih the Silmarillion was created by his son after his death, the silmarillion isn't actually a book in itself, its a collection of narrative works of a portion of the wider 'world forging' JRR spent his life working on, and of which he drew inspiratoin from when writing the published books he wrote, his son took on the task of puting it all together, of what he could find and piece together, writen on anything from journals to napkins, to scraps of paper e.t.c. of which he organised into as much of a coheerent structure as he could, which became the silmarillion, for the sake of his fathers wish. Ths silmarillion is an account of the overarching narrative of middle earth, but that is in itself only part of his entire vision, besides it is purely conjecture to state 'he could have written the last part after', From knowing how deeply he had developed into aspects of his world, purely for personal intentions and quite far removed from any of his officially published works, and of how much he had developed into the happenings after the end of middle earth, i would be hard pressed to believe he had 'made it up as he went along', it seem much more realistic to me that he was simply filling in the details of a wider narrative in the writing of LOTR, an episode in a series as it were. shrug | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:25 tacrats wrote: Stephen King is a good writer and can pull that off. If WoL was any indication (ex: magix saves kerrigan raynor carries her off into the sunset), blizz doesnt have good writers anymore. So the fact that they have no idea what they are doing is going to result in a terrible, terrible story. So true about WoL, but then that is probably not down to bad storymaking technique but bad storywriters. What do I hope for? Kerrigan wakes up, realises what Jim has done, shoots him in the head for being an a-hole trying to tell her how to run her life and then sets out to "re-infest" herself. Save the bad WoL-ending with a real cynical twist. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
I was definitely expecting Kerrigan to die, or Raynor to die, or something. When the happy ending came, it was actually a pleasant surprise that things don't have to go wrong because having a non-happy ending makes thing arbitrarily 'deep' and 'thoughtful.' | ||
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
On October 26 2010 14:27 Francis wrote: It's one thing to disagree with the portrayal of characters, but you're making it look like Arcturus and Kerrigan were both irrelevent and that is simply not true at all. Arcturus had the hybrid lab and this whole Xanatos gambit with Findlay... You don't know what a Xanatos gambit is. When a person executes this they always win because they have multiple objectives that are set up so that if you don't achieve one objective your other objectives are in a position to being achieved as a result of that failure. Acturus multiple plans plans failed in every way with the exception of getting Tosh killed and that scenario is a coin toss because you as the player could've sided with Tosh instead of Nova. We won't know which choice is canon until Tosh and the Spectres are mentioned in the future campaigns. On October 26 2010 18:37 Ocedic wrote: I don't know why people keep hounding WoL's ending for being 'cliche' and Hollywood-esque. It was actually a surprise to me because the first act of basically every Blizzard RTS such as SC1 and WarCraft 3 has ended in tragedy. I was definitely expecting Kerrigan to die, or Raynor to die, or something. When the happy ending came, it was actually a pleasant surprise that things don't have to go wrong because having a non-happy ending makes thing arbitrarily 'deep' and 'thoughtful.' Citing an ending as being 'cliche' and Hollywood-esque doesn't automatically mean happy endings suck. Protoss and Terrans defeating the Overmind was a happy ending for all intents and purposes. Zerg sacking Aiur was a happy ending as well. All that mattered is if you cared about that faction achieving their objectives by the end of the campaign. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On October 26 2010 13:46 Baarn wrote: Your interpretation because of cost and the reality of you willingly buying into a 3 part series to only read one book for the entire story is jarring. There's a difference between having the entire story being in only one volume of a series and having the first volume of a series having a complete story. The first campaign of SC had a complete story, for instance. You're with a bunch of people that are abandoned by the Confederacy, you join up with Raynor and Mengsk and Kerrigan and associated rebels, a madcap scramble for survival turns into a mission to overthrow a corrupt government, the campaign ends with you overthrowing the Confederacy and Mengsk installing himself as a dictator. See? The story was complete from start to finish, the campaign had one overarching main goal and that goal was accomplished. There were plenty of loose ends and it was clear the campaign was only one small part of a large mytharc, but for the most part the campaign had an "entire story". In WoL on the other hand you spend the entire first half working to overthrow Mengsk, who then abruptly disappears from the main plot. As I already went over, claiming the story will be cleared up in later iterations is not a valid storytelling technique, nor is it a valid defense for the first volume sucking ass. If you really buy into this nonsense, I have a masterpiece novel I'm working on that I'm willing to sell to you one chapter at a time. On October 26 2010 18:26 DND_Enkil wrote: So true about WoL, but then that is probably not down to bad storymaking technique but bad storywriters. What do I hope for? Kerrigan wakes up, realises what Jim has done, shoots him in the head for being an a-hole trying to tell her how to run her life and then sets out to "re-infest" herself. Save the bad WoL-ending with a real cynical twist. This is much too dark for modern-day Blizzard. Maybe Blizzard 8 years ago, but not now. More likely the story ends with a puppies-and-rainbows sunshine ending where all the good guys, Kerrigan included, team up to defeat the Big Bad Dark Voice, Mengsk has his token redemption moment (probably a heroic sacrifice), Tychus comes back and is a reluctant antagonist for a time before all is forgiven and he rejoins the gang, and in the end Raynor and Kerrigan get married on some desert planet or something and the last shot is of the two standing before a sunrise on a dune. | ||
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KazamShazam
3 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:16 Bentie wrote: I would like to see more hybrids, Wings on Liberty only touched on them so hopefully we get a lot more on them in Hears of the Swarm, maybe a new mini-race like those fish things in Frozen Throne? I hope so. If HotS is placed 10 years after wings, as previously hinted at, then the zerg should be controlled by the hybrid. Since the zerg structure of command is pyramidal (Overmind -> Kerrigan/Cerebrates -> Broods), now that Kerrigan is no longer zerg, they should be going completely apeshit ? Or maybe Tassadar & the Overmind might come into play and regain control of the swarm (the hybrid not relying entirely on the zerg brood). | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
However, I do think we should have seen some of that logic in the conversations in the game. It's not so much as the characters don't make sense, as we just didn't hear them justify their arguments, which would have made things flow a lot better. Raynor: It sounded like kerrigan would have to live or we're all going to die. Horner: Okay, sir. So what do you want to do? Raynor: Let's go to char and get the job done! It's this kind of thing. They have unclear motivations and it makes me feel like Raynor/Horner doesn't really have any kind of plan or motivation for said plan. The writing should have been clearer. More likely the story ends with a puppies-and-rainbows sunshine ending where all the good guys, Kerrigan included, team up to defeat the Big Bad Dark Voice, Mengsk has his token redemption moment (probably a heroic sacrifice), Tychus comes back and is a reluctant antagonist for a time before all is forgiven and he rejoins the gang, and in the end Raynor and Kerrigan get married on some desert planet or something and the last shot is of the two standing before a sunrise on a dune. The reason Mengsk is barely in WoL is because the writing team has already told his story. I don't think Mengsk will get any redemption. It's more of a question of what will happen with Valerian Mengsk than Arcturus. Although yes, I think this will clearly lead to everyone teaming up against the Dark Voice just like Starcraft I against the Overmind and WC3 against Archimonde. Which is a little sad. Those stories a lot more boring compared to the Brood War and The Frozen Throne stories, which were a lot more interesting IMO. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On October 27 2010 01:28 Krigwin wrote: There's a difference between having the entire story being in only one volume of a series and having the first volume of a series having a complete story. The first campaign of SC had a complete story, for instance. You're with a bunch of people that are abandoned by the Confederacy, you join up with Raynor and Mengsk and Kerrigan and associated rebels, a madcap scramble for survival turns into a mission to overthrow a corrupt government, the campaign ends with you overthrowing the Confederacy and Mengsk installing himself as a dictator. See? The story was complete from start to finish, the campaign had one overarching main goal and that goal was accomplished. There were plenty of loose ends and it was clear the campaign was only one small part of a large mytharc, but for the most part the campaign had an "entire story". In WoL on the other hand you spend the entire first half working to overthrow Mengsk, who then abruptly disappears from the main plot. As I already went over, claiming the story will be cleared up in later iterations is not a valid storytelling technique, nor is it a valid defense for the first volume sucking ass. If you really buy into this nonsense, I have a masterpiece novel I'm working on that I'm willing to sell to you one chapter at a time. This is much too dark for modern-day Blizzard. Maybe Blizzard 8 years ago, but not now. More likely the story ends with a puppies-and-rainbows sunshine ending where all the good guys, Kerrigan included, team up to defeat the Big Bad Dark Voice, Mengsk has his token redemption moment (probably a heroic sacrifice), Tychus comes back and is a reluctant antagonist for a time before all is forgiven and he rejoins the gang, and in the end Raynor and Kerrigan get married on some desert planet or something and the last shot is of the two standing before a sunrise on a dune. Yeah and so what about Mengsk not being included in the ending? Valarian is more involved in the current struggle in the overall plot than his dad if you are familiar with the saga about the dark voice. You seem bitter you didn't get the ending you were hoping for with Mengsk succeeding in killing Kerrigan. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On October 27 2010 05:17 Baarn wrote: Yeah and so what about Mengsk not being included in the ending? Valarian is more involved in the current struggle in the overall plot than his dad if you are familiar with the saga about the dark voice. You seem bitter you didn't get the ending you were hoping for with Mengsk succeeding in killing Kerrigan. ...What? I was making a point about improper storytelling, I don't know how on Earth you got to this conclusion. And so what? When you spend a huge part of a story building up conflict and a villain, it kind of becomes a big deal of that story to have some kind of resolution regarding that villain. Does he get his comeuppance? Does he get defeated, but runs away to fight again? Does he get killed by an even worse villain who then becomes the main antagonist? "Inexplicably disappears from the main plot and is never mentioned again" is not a valid resolution, it's disjointed, schizophrenic writing. By the way, I already posted my ideal ending a few pages back. It's unlikely, but I'm still holding out for the "vulture tag with Tassadar" ending. | ||
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TeamSoliduss
41 Posts
Seems to me that Dark Voice is just the pawn of a Xel'Naga; Quite possibly Samir Duran. | ||
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
On October 27 2010 05:28 Krigwin wrote: ...What? I was making a point about improper storytelling, I don't know how on Earth you got to this conclusion. And so what? When you spend a huge part of a story building up conflict and a villain, it kind of becomes a big deal of that story to have some kind of resolution regarding that villain. Does he get his comeuppance? Does he get defeated, but runs away to fight again? Does he get killed by an even worse villain who then becomes the main antagonist? "Inexplicably disappears from the main plot and is never mentioned again" is not a valid resolution, it's disjointed, schizophrenic writing. By the way, I already posted my ideal ending a few pages back. It's unlikely, but I'm still holding out for the "vulture tag with Tassadar" ending. This post touches on part of the reason why Blizzard during the SC/BW era could write a better story with 10 missions than Blizzard now with 30 missions. The enemy in SC was the Confederacy which transitions into Mengsk. In BW the enemy was the UED and the UED unlike the Taldarim who kept on threatening to do something kept on delivering on their promises even if in the end Kerrigan ended up with the last laugh. | ||
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Sisko
United States121 Posts
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strongwind
United States862 Posts
Krigwin, I think I'll give Firefly a try. I've heard good things about it, but so far I haven't gotten around to watching it. I saw Serenity already (didn't realize there was a TV series prequel) and wasn't too impressed, but I hear Firefly is better. Thanks for reminding me! | ||
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indiehjaerta
Sweden93 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:32 HardcoreBilly wrote: J.R.R. Tolkien made up Lord of the Rings as he wrote. He just watched the movie and wrote it from there | ||
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ChimTheGrim6
United States7 Posts
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Thanksfortheadvice2
United States5 Posts
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megagoten
318 Posts
On October 27 2010 18:13 ChimTheGrim6 wrote: Hopefully the overmind will have a main role in HotS, because its what made the Zerg so cool in the first place. Also, bring back the Cerebrates. are you suggesting we play through the overmind during its infancy/adolescent stage? (goddamn his post was bad) | ||
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