EPTAlso what RvB said, you shouldnt force defenders to move a certain way already.Its already way to easy to cheat a penalty for your team with all this diving and forcing handball pens.
2023 - 2024 Football Thread - Page 133
| Forum Index > Sports |
|
gTank
Austria2601 Posts
Also what RvB said, you shouldnt force defenders to move a certain way already.Its already way to easy to cheat a penalty for your team with all this diving and forcing handball pens. | ||
|
Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On June 30 2024 19:17 sharkie wrote: pretty sure we had much more close offside calls this Euro. This semi-automatic offside is great - now we just need to change the offside rule How would you like it changed? | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18564 Posts
| ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On June 30 2024 20:27 sharkie wrote: I would give attackers way more leeway... Maybe a whole foot? Offside rule was introduced to stop attackers camping in front of goal. A Foot of advantage should be more than enough but not too much to change the game in a bad sense. Regardless of where you draw the line, you will then again get those cm decisons from that new line... Right now you have one line, and sometimes extremely tough decisions with that one line. but that new VAR visualization is extremely helpful imho, Having a second line 30 cm further down the pitch wouldn't help at all, imho. Argueing between 29 and 31 cm feels even mora arbitrary than argueing about -1 and +1cm | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28734 Posts
Handball rule is worth looking at, and there, I think giving some more leeway is just the way to go, even if that makes it a bit more arbitrary. That said I don't mind defenders defending with their arms around their backs. | ||
|
Dan HH
Romania9150 Posts
On June 30 2024 20:36 mahrgell wrote: Regardless of where you draw the line, you will then again get those cm decisons from that new line... Right now you have one line, and sometimes extremely tough decisions with that one line. but that new VAR visualization is extremely helpful imho, Having a second line 30 cm further down the pitch wouldn't help at all, imho. Argueing between 29 and 31 cm feels even mora arbitrary than argueing about -1 and +1cm For me the issue isn't that the margins are too slim, it's that a ton of goals are disallowed for situations where the attacker had no actual advantage. Philosophically, I much prefer the daylight rule that Wenger is trying to push, where the attacker's whole body needs to be in front of the defender for them to be offside. But I wanna see more trials and their results first. I would assume that it will make games between roughly evenly matched teams better, my only concern is that it might make things worse in uneven games by forcing the defending team to sit even lower. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Big Ange Postecoglu made the point re the Germany penalty the other night, would it have even been a talking point for pundits if it wasn’t given? A cross, generally a low percentage play anyway, lightly grazing a bloke’s hand, who was about a foot away. Then it becomes a great goal chance for Germany after VAR look at it. He said that agree or disagree with doing it, it’s certainly re-refereeing games and this really becomes an issue with handball specifically IMO. At the other end of the scale, we’ve seen goals given where an attacking player handled in the buildup which were given because it was accidental/they didn’t gain an advantage which is hardly consistent. For safety reasons, as well as attack/defence balance I don’t think ending up in a scenario where folks throwing themselves into the air with their hands at their side is particularly desirable. Offside is both too rigid and too ambiguous at the same time. A line has to be drawn somewhere but it doesn’t make a huge amount of sense to me overall. The advantage an attacker gets is from their body position and momentum most of the time if they’re minutely offside. But simply having a body part offside isn’t innately advantageous depending on body position, momentum and other factors. A bloke/blokette could have their heel in an offside position but have their back completely to a play where everyone is facing forward rushing onto a ball played over the top, there’s not much advantage there. On the flipside the determination of ‘interfering with play’ is very interpretative and not judged as empirically. So you end up with a Danish goal chalked off from a bloke’s pinky toe being offside, where the refs can’t make a call, whereas the disallowed Dutch goal versus France being down to how they interpreted (and subject to much debate) As a combination I don’t like it, I think offside players (where there’s proximity) will always be interfering with play, even if it’s just to occupy the minds of defenders and influence their decisions. The only kind of exceptions I can think of are if there’s some heavy action in the centre and a winger who’s hogging the touch line wanders offside. I’m unsure what alterations I’d make myself bar: 1. Raise the threshold for handballs being referred to VAR if the ref misses them to deliberate fouls or blocking of goal-bound shots. Still keep the avenue, I think many of us bemoan these soft penalties and want fewer, but you don’t want to miss a Theirry Henry versus Ireland or a Luis Suarez against Ghana 2. Make offside more consistent. Either allow some leeway and determination for active players and decisions there, or make it less interpretative for inactive players. It used to be that any player in the attacking side being offside meant it was offside regardless, perhaps a bit extreme but we’re using technology for a binary decision in one instance, and refereeing judgement in the other. Equalise that in either direction IMO. It feels a bit wonky in combination. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On June 30 2024 20:59 Dan HH wrote: For me the issue isn't that the margins are too slim, it's that a ton of goals are disallowed for situations where the attacker had no actual advantage. Philosophically, I much prefer the daylight rule that Wenger is trying to push, where the attacker's whole body needs to be in front of the defender for them to be offside. But I wanna see more trials and their results first. I would assume that it will make games between roughly evenly matched teams better, my only concern is that it might make things worse in uneven games by forcing the defending team to sit even lower. I’m unsure whether the old daylight rule was so written, or was just reffed that way to accommodate the human brain and eye. But yeah you do get that side effect where offside tended to be called when there was an advantage that was apparent to the eye, or in retrospect (when mistakes weren’t made of course) It’s a very interpretative game, outside of goal line tech and the ball being out of play. I think broadly, outside of bias for their own teams fans tend to some ‘spirit of the law’ justice rather than the pure letter, it’s just a tricky thing to balance. Especially in a game with the status world’s popular pursuits that is so low-scoring and a singular call can decide 90 minute games. Which isn’t the case in many other sports to quite the same degree Handball is such a contention for me because the punishment for some of the crimes is so disproportionate more often than not for an innocuous, inadvertent handball from a cross than a deliberate attempt to cheat and block a ball. With offside the tech is there and works great. It’s just being applied in such a way that some decisions don’t really feel like sporting justice. I like Wenger’s proposal but as you say it might have unintended consequences too. But at least you’d see that offside graphic and go ‘ah fair enough they’re miles offside’ rather than ‘what advantage are they getting from that single toe?’ | ||
|
justanothertownie
16321 Posts
On June 30 2024 21:47 WombaT wrote: I’m unsure whether the old daylight rule was so written, or was just reffed that way to accommodate the human brain and eye. But yeah you do get that side effect where offside tended to be called when there was an advantage that was apparent to the eye, or in retrospect (when mistakes weren’t made of course) It’s a very interpretative game, outside of goal line tech and the ball being out of play. I think broadly, outside of bias for their own teams fans tend to some ‘spirit of the law’ justice rather than the pure letter, it’s just a tricky thing to balance. Especially in a game with the status world’s popular pursuits that is so low-scoring and a singular call can decide 90 minute games. Which isn’t the case in many other sports to quite the same degree Handball is such a contention for me because the punishment for some of the crimes is so disproportionate more often than not for an innocuous, inadvertent handball from a cross than a deliberate attempt to cheat and block a ball. With offside the tech is there and works great. It’s just being applied in such a way that some decisions don’t really feel like sporting justice. I like Wenger’s proposal but as you say it might have unintended consequences too. But at least you’d see that offside graphic and go ‘ah fair enough they’re miles offside’ rather than ‘what advantage are they getting from that single toe?’ And instead you would discuss: "ah, everything except his toe was offside. Clearly he had an advantage. It's about a few mm. What a travesty of a call." You are just moving the factual decision to the other side of the player while disadvantaging/punishing defenders. Which will lead to more defensive football since you need to defend deeper to compensate. Is that what you want? | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Ref’s looking pretty card-happy so far, I’d be surprised if we don’t see a red at some stage | ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
Who from this half of the bracket makes it to the final? | ||
|
justanothertownie
16321 Posts
| ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6261 Posts
| ||
|
sharkie
Austria18564 Posts
| ||
|
Dan HH
Romania9150 Posts
| ||
|
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
| ||
|
justanothertownie
16321 Posts
On July 01 2024 02:20 Mafe wrote: Was that Kucka again with that foul on Mainoo? That could have been a second yellow card here. At the very least for that kick against rice. | ||
|
KobraKay
Portugal4235 Posts
Need a big shift soon otherwise this side of the bracket is going to be even more nuts....and swiss will look like a top nation  | ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
| ||
|
gTank
Austria2601 Posts
| ||
| ||
