EPTTo be included in a group of England, France, Portugal, Spain, Croatia and Belgium makes them the very definition of a top nation..
2023 - 2024 Football Thread - Page 131
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sharkie
Austria18746 Posts
To be included in a group of England, France, Portugal, Spain, Croatia and Belgium makes them the very definition of a top nation.. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:49 Mafe wrote: Sane starting, but not Fullkrug. GGWP Denmark, good luck against spain. What has Sane ever done useful? -.- I would prefer even Müller over him. Oh and no Mittelstädt  | ||
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sharkie
Austria18746 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:49 Mafe wrote: Sane starting, but not Fullkrug. GGWP Denmark, good luck against spain. Wtf... I am going to bet against Germany now. Why sane????? | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4385 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:42 sharkie wrote: Because for some reason you think this Italian team is a top nation... Switzerland are dominating Italy offensively and defensively. Spain are only good holsing the ball This is the first time since ww2 that switzerland won a knock out stage game in regular time in an euro! Let that sink in. This matches switzerlands best result ever in an euro. How is that a top nation? Wales and ukraine are absolutely not top nations in football! Italy went through a rebuild and the italian football was/is somewhat in a crisis when the power shifted too heavily for the prem and Spain kept going because of RM and ita galacticos and cronaldo/messi later. Still italy is one of the too football nations. But if you are considering wales or ukraine the issue is probably your definition of top. Edit: i see that it was not you who brought them up and it was for a diff context. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27368 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:51 sharkie wrote: Wales, Italy, Ukraine did not even qualify for all the tournaments in this range of time... To be included in a group of England, France, Portugal, Spain, Croatia and Belgium makes them the very definition of a top nation.. You asked for a list of teams with better results than Switzerland and then when I gave them it’s ‘to even be in such a conversation is evidence they’re a top nation’ DRG qualifies for Code S every season, is he a top Code S player? He’s clearly good, and shouldn’t be disrespected but is he one of the big boys? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27368 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:49 Mafe wrote: Sane starting, but not Fullkrug. GGWP Denmark, good luck against spain. It’s Denmark, think you’ll be grand. As somebody in a podcast said, never go Full Krug, go half Krug. He might be one of those players who’s better coming on as a battering ram. Sane’s an odd one as I felt he was quality for Man City and thought it odd they let him go, and often when I see him in big games for Bayern he’s pretty decent. But fans of Bayern, or the German national side seem much more frustrated with him, so I can only assume he’s frequently infuriating if you’re watching him more often? | ||
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sharkie
Austria18746 Posts
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Smorrie
Netherlands2953 Posts
Swiss looked really well organized and played well as a team, had a lot of great opportunities and caused so many issues for Italy on the left wing. Italy lacked intensity and tactical adjustments which never came (reminds me of the game of Austria vs NL). Swiss seems to lack some individual quality to ever become a favorite to win this tournament, but as a team they are definitely not to be underestimated! That ties in well with the on-going discussion  They will remain an underdog vs France, England, Belgium, Croatia, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Spain… all big football nations with great internationals with at least one or more RO8/semis/final finishes in WC/EC since 2014. Swiss is closing in, but in a tier just below that... For a tournament with 24 spots, that definitely does not classify as a 'top nation'. That said, looking forward to their game vs England! | ||
Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On June 30 2024 03:02 WombaT wrote: It’s Denmark, think you’ll be grand. As somebody in a podcast said, never go Full Krug, go half Krug. He might be one of those players who’s better coming on as a battering ram. Sane’s an odd one as I felt he was quality for Man City and thought it odd they let him go, and often when I see him in big games for Bayern he’s pretty decent. But fans of Bayern, or the German national side seem much more frustrated with him, so I can only assume he’s frequently infuriating if you’re watching him more often? Somehow Sane for his club and his national team always look like two different players. He just never lives up to his potential. He got himself sent off in a test match against austria out of frustration some months ago, and his body language in the games so far suggests to me that this is entirely possible again if things dont go his way. Fullkrug has been great as a sub, yes. But too often he came on when the game was in need of saving, whereas we never figured if maybe by starting him, we might never falll behind in the first place. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On June 30 2024 03:12 Mafe wrote: Somehow Sane for his club and his national team always look like two different players. He just never lives up to his potential. He got himself sent off in a test match against austria out of frustration some months ago, and his body language in the games so far suggests to me that this is entirely possible again if things dont go his way. Fullkrug has been great as a sub, yes. But too often he came on when the game was in need of saving, whereas we never figured if maybe by starting him, we might never falll behind in the first place. The logic is really not that difficult, is it? Füllkrug is an "endless desperate crosses in the box and hope he scores one" striker. That is obviously not the match plan any expected favorite in a game wants to follow from minute 0. So you have a possession striker like Havertz, hope it works out and you can control and dominate the game, and then know that there is always a good desperation measure to roll the dice if things go bad. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27368 Posts
On June 30 2024 03:12 Smorrie wrote: Damn Italy really looked poor today, but I suppose it's in line with the underperformance of all the "favorites". Swiss looked really well organized and played well as a team, had a lot of great opportunities and caused so many issues for Italy on the left wing. Italy lacked intensity and tactical adjustments which never came (reminds me of the game of Austria vs NL). Swiss seems to lack some individual quality to ever become a favorite to win this tournament, but as a team they are definitely not to be underestimated! That ties in well with the on-going discussion They will remain an underdog vs France, England, Belgium, Croatia, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Spain… all big football nations with great internationals with at least one or more RO8/semis/final finishes in WC/EC since 2014. Swiss is closing in, but in a tier just below that... For a tournament with 24 spots, that definitely does not classify as a 'top nation'. That said, looking forward to their game vs England! In fairness to Italy they never should have been considered amongst the favourites, they could have done better but their talent pool really isn’t up there. Even their Euro winning squad had gaps, this is yet again gappier. In Baggio/Totti/Del Piero they’d previously bench, or omit from a squad entirely 10s who’d have walked into basically any other side, they’re really lacking players like that now. Verrati or a player like him is a miss, a real top number 9 is a miss. Some injuries and suspensions are a miss. Talents they did have like Chiesa who was fantastic last Euros haven’t really pushed on, in his case injury has disrupted his career. Italy are a B tier nation with an A tier reputation these days. And as a big Italian football fan it’s painful but I think it’s pretty plain to see. You can get away with real cutting edge forwards if you have a great midfield, provided the former are at least pretty good, or to a degree vice-versa. You can’t really get away with lacking in both | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6321 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:51 sharkie wrote: Wales, Italy, Ukraine did not even qualify for all the tournaments in this range of time... To be included in a group of England, France, Portugal, Spain, Croatia and Belgium makes them the very definition of a top nation.. No sane person includes Switzerland with England, France, Portugal, Spain, Croatia, and Belgium. All of those countries performed better and had much better players than Switzerland. Qualifying consistently for the round of 8 is impressive but you also need to make deep runs in a tournament once in a while. Italy has disappointed the last four years but still won euro 2020 in a convincing fashion. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27368 Posts
On June 30 2024 03:21 mahrgell wrote: The logic is really not that difficult, is it? Füllkrug is an "endless desperate crosses in the box and hope he scores one" striker. That is obviously not the match plan any expected favorite in a game wants to follow from minute 0. So you have a possession striker like Havertz, hope it works out and you can control and dominate the game, and then know that there is always a good desperation measure to roll the dice if things go bad. Germany’s whole gameplan is fluidity with all these technically gifted 10 types they have, and for me Havertz as a man who about 9 managers haven’t really found a position for, but has attributes of a 9 and those of a 10 kinda fits that. If it’s not working, or a defence is tiring I think Fullkrug gives that plan B, a different set of questions for defenders to answer, but I dunno if he fits plan A as well. Sane’s interesting as he’s got that real express pace that few others in this squad have, so in theory I can see him giving a little extra in terms of slipping him in behind. Wonder if that’s the plan | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
It might not be fair to Havertz, but due to his skillset playing him is a severe case of diminishing returns given the rest of the offense. Anyway, let's hope that instead it's me who looks clueless after the end of the game. | ||
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justanothertownie
16342 Posts
On June 30 2024 03:52 Mafe wrote: Yes I understand the possession based gameplan. It makes sense on paper. It's just that over the last years, we've tried it and the results have been mixed at best. Yes we've gotten into the box probably much more often than germany teams from before, yet at the same, we also looked much more clueless when it comes to converting these chances into goals. Which to me sounds like a problem Fullkrug was tailormade to solve. It might not be fair to Havertz, but due to his skillset playing him is a severe case of diminishing returns given the rest of the offense. Anyway, let's hope that instead it's me who looks clueless after the end of the game. The flip side is that including füllkrug leads to the creation of fewer such chances since his subpar possession game and technique will be a detriment for plan a. Bringing him on when brute force is needed seems to be the smart thing to do. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18746 Posts
Schlotterbeck almost cost Germany a goal once again Also who is the 3rd new player? I am not noticing him | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4385 Posts
I cannot express how much havertz presence in the game annoys me... | ||
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sharkie
Austria18746 Posts
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justanothertownie
16342 Posts
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gTank
Austria2666 Posts
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