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On June 27 2024 16:16 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2024 16:02 RvB wrote:On June 27 2024 07:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I mean, Belgium and France are where they are because they couldn't win their groups. Spain is really the only team to impress so far. Arguably Austria has played better football than 4 of those teams, the Switzerland/Italy matchup is pretty good, and England and Netherlands should still have the ability to go toe to toe with the rest if they have a peak performance. I do agree that the top half is better but if you base yourself on 'name recognition/squad potential' then they have 5 of the top 8 vs 3 of the top 8, if you base yourself on tournament performance so far then it has the top 1 and everybody else is kinda meh. I have very little confidence left that we're going to play a good game this euro's. Same with England. Our coaches seem to be competing for worst coach of the tournament. Is it that bad? I mean youse Dutch aren’t exactly scrubs but I wouldn’t say it’s one of those stacked squads that’s being squandered either. I mean schedule wise it happened to be quite a lot of the Dutch games I missed so maybe it was diabolical so far! Curious as I’m not especially familiar with many Dutch-based players or various dudes who could be glaring omissions
Well, Wijnaldum is getting playing time and he hasn't kicked a ball straight all season.
Other than that, it seems like a collective failing, which is partially on the coach and partially on the lack of a decent midfield. For some reason, a defense with Van Dijk, de Vrij and Ake is looking like rank amateurs, getting caught with their pants down over and over. Then they give the ball to Reijnders or Simons, who aren't Frenkie de Jong, but should be able to do something with the ball other than gift it to the opposing team. And on the off chance we do get a decent opportunity, we expect Gakpo or Depay to be clinical finishers, which they aren't nor ever have been. Alternatively, Weghorst comes in, and either scores or is entirely invisible without ever touching a ball and you forget he's even on the field. Oh, and there are some other players on the team too 
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United States10529 Posts
On June 28 2024 01:48 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2024 16:16 WombaT wrote:On June 27 2024 16:02 RvB wrote:On June 27 2024 07:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I mean, Belgium and France are where they are because they couldn't win their groups. Spain is really the only team to impress so far. Arguably Austria has played better football than 4 of those teams, the Switzerland/Italy matchup is pretty good, and England and Netherlands should still have the ability to go toe to toe with the rest if they have a peak performance. I do agree that the top half is better but if you base yourself on 'name recognition/squad potential' then they have 5 of the top 8 vs 3 of the top 8, if you base yourself on tournament performance so far then it has the top 1 and everybody else is kinda meh. I have very little confidence left that we're going to play a good game this euro's. Same with England. Our coaches seem to be competing for worst coach of the tournament. Is it that bad? I mean youse Dutch aren’t exactly scrubs but I wouldn’t say it’s one of those stacked squads that’s being squandered either. I mean schedule wise it happened to be quite a lot of the Dutch games I missed so maybe it was diabolical so far! Curious as I’m not especially familiar with many Dutch-based players or various dudes who could be glaring omissions Well, Wijnaldum is getting playing time and he hasn't kicked a ball straight all season. Other than that, it seems like a collective failing, which is partially on the coach and partially on the lack of a decent midfield. For some reason, a defense with Van Dijk, de Vrij and Ake is looking like rank amateurs, getting caught with their pants down over and over. Then they give the ball to Reijnders or Simons, who aren't Frenkie de Jong, but should be able to do something with the ball other than gift it to the opposing team. And on the off chance we do get a decent opportunity, we expect Gakpo or Depay to be clinical finishers, which they aren't nor ever have been. Alternatively, Weghorst comes in, and either scores or is entirely invisible without ever touching a ball and you forget he's even on the field. Oh, and there are some other players on the team too
Give my boy Gravenberch a run in the midfield.
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During a post-match interview, Wijnaldum, who had only 6(?) touches that particular game, explained he was following Koeman's positional instructions, but they didn't work out and the others were unable to find him in those positions.
Koeman strikes me as a manager who likes to have total control and expects the players to follow his directions closely at all times, which might be why he keeps playing Wijnaldum despite his poor performances on the ball.
Pieter Zwart detailed Koeman's inconsistent tactics, pointing out various tactical errors in the game against Austria which always put our defense in disadvantageous positions. It was clear from the first minute, even though he didn't make any adjustments. While he really tried to address this as nice as possible, it seemed clear to me he put full blame on Koeman for one of the worst performances of the last couple years. On a positive note, he also said these tactical issues can be overcome with the right adjustments within short term, and he believes there's still hope if Koeman addresses these points properly.
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Wow copa america the USA are almost definitely eliminated in the group stage...
What will they do in 2 years to get better?
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On June 29 2024 18:06 sharkie wrote:
Wow copa america the USA are almost definitely eliminated in the group stage...
What will they do in 2 years to get better?
I dont follow them. Is that a coach thing or is it just the lack of actual talent in the squad?
If its player quality nothing can be done in 2 years. Unless they are just missing one or 2 break out players which might happen albeit unlikely.
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Despite changes to the starting 11 italy still feels very disapointing.
Switzerland is playing nice but they hardly look like the power house capable of dominating a team, yet italy is still looking like the underdog even considering the traditional italy defensive nature.
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Northern Ireland27227 Posts
Switzerland are absolutely bossing this, 1-0 does not flatter them.
Spaletti and his boys have some time to figure it out still, but they really do need to figure something out sooner rather than later.
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Yeah, Italy is looking like Donnarumma and 10 traffic cones so far. I've seen Kosovo and Belarus play more courageous against Switzerland than this.
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Switzerland has become a top football nation and has established themselves for over a decade... Spain did not dominate Italy this much
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They're not a top nation in any way. Their best result in the last decade is a quarter finals.
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If Switzerland is not a top nation in the last decade - which European nation is one then?
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Northern Ireland27227 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:00 RvB wrote:
They're not a top nation in any way. Their best result in the last decade is a quarter finals.
Aye they’re in that kinda Mexico tier where they’re consistently in the knockouts but haven’t really put in that deep run to put them in the top bracket.
National team performance obviously comes into it hugely, but to me being a top ‘footballing nation’ goes a bit beyond just that too. It’s a conveyor belt of talent, a club game tradition etc etc
It’s a crude metric but I think what separates a top, top nation from others is a quarter final being a cause for consternation rather than celebration.
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Gorgeous 2nd goal but look at the Italian defenders during the passes preceeding it, I wasn't even that hyperbolic calling them traffic cones.
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Northern Ireland27227 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:07 sharkie wrote:
If Switzerland is not a top nation in the last decade - which European nation is one then?
The significant chunk of nations who’ve made more than one quarter-final or better in that period in either a World Cup or a European Championship? And it is a significant chunk
There’s no shame in being in that next tier and having a good tournament, no need to over-egg it
Bunny and DRG are very good StarCraft players and have the odd run, it’d be daft to group them with a Maru or Dark who are making playoffs time and time again and going again
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Northern Ireland27227 Posts
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On June 30 2024 02:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2024 02:07 sharkie wrote:
If Switzerland is not a top nation in the last decade - which European nation is one then? The significant chunk of nations who’ve made more than one quarter-final or better in that period in either a World Cup or a European Championship? And it is a significant chunk There’s no shame in being in that next tier and having a good tournament, no need to over-egg it Bunny and DRG are very good StarCraft players and have the odd run, it’d be daft to group them with a Maru or Dark who are making playoffs time and time again and going again
That chunk is not that significant...
Germany and Netherlands are not included in for example
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On June 30 2024 02:28 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2024 02:21 WombaT wrote:On June 30 2024 02:07 sharkie wrote:
If Switzerland is not a top nation in the last decade - which European nation is one then? The significant chunk of nations who’ve made more than one quarter-final or better in that period in either a World Cup or a European Championship? And it is a significant chunk There’s no shame in being in that next tier and having a good tournament, no need to over-egg it Bunny and DRG are very good StarCraft players and have the odd run, it’d be daft to group them with a Maru or Dark who are making playoffs time and time again and going again That chunk is not that significant... Germany and Netherlands are not included in for example
As much as they were dominating italy in this game switzerland is not a top football nation, evidence A we are criticizing italy's performance much more than when Spain completely dominanted them.
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Because for some reason you think this Italian team is a top nation... Switzerland are dominating Italy offensively and defensively. Spain are only good holsing the ball
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Northern Ireland27227 Posts
On June 30 2024 02:28 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2024 02:21 WombaT wrote:On June 30 2024 02:07 sharkie wrote:
If Switzerland is not a top nation in the last decade - which European nation is one then? The significant chunk of nations who’ve made more than one quarter-final or better in that period in either a World Cup or a European Championship? And it is a significant chunk There’s no shame in being in that next tier and having a good tournament, no need to over-egg it Bunny and DRG are very good StarCraft players and have the odd run, it’d be daft to group them with a Maru or Dark who are making playoffs time and time again and going again That chunk is not that significant... Germany and Netherlands are not included in for example
Depending where one does the cutoff ‘the last decade’ as Germany won the World Cup a decade ago and the Netherlands were third place.
Other sides that have either beat Switzerland’s best tournament performance, or equalled it but on more occasions include England, France, Belgium, Spain, Croatia, Portugal, Italy
Wales, Denmark and iirc Ukraine too off the top of my head.
You’re not a top nation if you have that many outperforming you over 5 international tournaments, and that’s just European sides.
Smacks of you protesting that Asia had a bunch of top sides who were underrated by us Euro snobs at the World Cup only for them to not do a huge amount of note.
If you’d just say they’re a good, decent side nobody would have an issue with that. Switzerland have a good side, they’re having a good tournament. I’m enjoying watching them but they’ve hardly ascended to being one of Europe’s great footballing nations at this juncture
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Sane starting, but not Fullkrug. GGWP Denmark, good luck against spain.
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EPT
