Thanks to Nemireck for this link, highlighting for visibility...
Main points
Illegal defense 1979 - 2001 version - Isolation defense. Players cannot hover in dead zones guarding no one. Help defenders must go directly to the offensive player they want to guard. (Rule during Jordan era)
Illegal defense 2001 - present version - Zone defense but defensive players cannot camp in the paint for more than 3 seconds without guarding anyone . (Not related to the Jordan analysis, but provided for context)
Jordan scored a lot of his points in isolation because the ID system dictates isolation defense
The fact that MJ is arguably the best 1on1 player makes point #3 above easy
ID rules allowed MJ to pick on the defender as if it were a 1on1 game.
Help defense resulted in wide open teammates because defenders have to commit to the help and cannot be zoning between players and passing lanes, or they'd be called for ID violation
Some examples of Kobe and other players with the new ID rules, isolating, but with help d player sagging in between without actively defending anyone else
Some examples of ID version 1 plays without MJ where the paint is literally open because defensive players have to stick to their men, and this made offensive players more aggressive in their attacks
Some examples of IDv1 with MJ showing how it often starts as pure isolation plays on the perimeter, and him blowing by his defender to an open paint and the help defense coming late to stop MJ because they cant leave their men early and MJ is practically in the rim already
More IDv2 examples with Kobe and TMac, settling for long 2s because help d in lurking
Because IDv2 does not favor heavy isolation plays, teams adapted by using more pick and rolls...
...and shooters, specifically 3 point shooters
People say MJ would dominate now because no hand check rules, but he would have a more difficult time playing against IDv2...
...for example Kobe, TMac, and AI
Speculation that ID rule change was because of Shaq destroying the paint
Kids today learn about zone defense early
Comment by cLutZ:
I'm going to be honest, the narrative of the video has some decent points, but the video is straight up bad. A lot of his examples of how easy Jordan has it at the rim because of slow rotations are retarded, similarly a lot of his examples of "illegal defense" are not. This happens back-to-back many times.
For instance at 3:00 he points to Tiago Splitter as illegal defense, but its not, he points far to early and Tiago could just as likely be coming in for a perfectly legal double. In fact Tiago's man is also in the direction Tiago is running so he could be legitimately recovering.
Then immediately at 3:08 he shows how "easy" Jordan has it, but Larry Bird is sagging off his man as is 44, and Jordan has to finish among 4 players contesting his shot. Then in the 3:27 clip an obvious dig by a celtic and the only real difference between this play and a modern play is that Jordan's teammate didn't stay at the 3 PT line for a wide open shot.
Then his Kobe example at 4:08 is Kobe... not passing to a wide open teammate at the 3 pt line.
4:54: The Pistons big man 22 is already in the Paint before Jordan while his man is at the 3 Pt Line.
After this, he seems to not understand why the game is now all about 3s & Driving. He thinks people do Pick n' Roll because it frees you up, but its actually so you can get semi-iso mismatches between a fast guy and a slow guy or a wide open big guy. In other words, he ignores the just as important nearly co-incident rule change: Removal of the Handcheck. PnR was less used because getting your PG into a mismatch is less useful when the big guy can just grab his shorts when the PG comes off the screen.
So, yes, illegal defense rules made 1v1s less common, but handcheck removal made successful 1v1 defense impossible. It basically switched what was the hardest part of scoring from step 1 of getting by your man to step 2 of finishing in traffic. If his theory was correct, we would have seen tons of dominant 6'2'' guys going back through the 80s because they would just iso, blow by their man 1v1, and the big guys would not be able to contest at the rim, that wasn't true, and it cuts both ways. Guys like Jordan would have to pass more out of the 3v1s (that would be easier to get), but guys like Westbrook and Lebron would have to develop actual footwork to even get into the lane.
On December 31 2017 00:36 JimmiC wrote: Nice! I think a steady diet of powell and OG with some wright and maybe siakam mixed in will ok a OK job on lebron. Which is all you can really ask for
IT playing vs Bos on weds. That game will be must watch tv
Yep yep yep. It is the moment of truth for the Cavs and LBJ's next season decision. Damn if the Cavs work, it'd be the sweetest thing ever!
Thanks to Nemireck for this link, highlighting for visibility...
Main points
Illegal defense 1979 - 2001 version - Isolation defense. Players cannot hover in dead zones guarding no one. Help defenders must go directly to the offensive player they want to guard.
Illegal defense 2001 - present version - Zone defense but defensive players cannot camp without guarding anyone in the paint for more than 3 seconds
But what IS number 3 man!? You can't let the awaiting masses live in suspense!
The hottest team in the Eastern Conference is the Chicago Bulls
On December 31 2017 00:30 Nemireck wrote: OOOH Finally, notorious Raptor hater Coach Nick gives Raptors some love:
I've been waiting for this video this year. Usually he waits until they hit a slump to poop all over the Toronto parade after their hot start every year.
the Raptors bench is carving up lousy teams. its fun to watch... that said... the Raptors are 6-7 against teams above .500 with losses to a depleted Spurs team, Boston without Kyrie, and the Wizards without Wall.
Jack Armstrong brought this up last night... the test of this team occurs from January 9th to February 1. Cleveland, San Antonio, Minnesota twice, Miami, Washington, and Philly.
if Lowry keeps on playin' the way he has been playin' the last 3 games the Raptors are going to get their asses kicked. i see the Raptors have drawn the excitement of a couple of boxscore followers in this thread though.
did you see that Alley oop from Derozan to OG? Derozan is creating more offense than ever. the alley oop comes right at the end of this clip. First time i've ever seen Derozan initiate an alley-oop. Looks like another weapon in the Raptors high octane offense. https://streamable.com/vysx8
it really looks like the corner 3 is now a part of Derozan's game. its a tool in his toolbox now. nice to see.
Derozan's 3 Point Stats stats say Derozan is 33% from 3. However, he has 3 half court heaves in there. Furthermore, throughout October and November Derozan was handed the ball with 5 or less seconds left on the clock at the end of a failed play. often , he'd heave up a suicide off balance 3. So, I'd say Derozan is better than a 33% 3-point shooter despite what the stat says. I think that 33% number will continue to climb.
Thanks to Nemireck for this link, highlighting for visibility...
Main points
Illegal defense 1979 - 2001 version - Isolation defense. Players cannot hover in dead zones guarding no one. Help defenders must go directly to the offensive player they want to guard.
Illegal defense 2001 - present version - Zone defense but defensive players cannot camp without guarding anyone in the paint for more than 3 seconds
I thought that IT wasn't going to play against Boston on Jan 3rd cause he didn't want to play against them unless he was at 100% and not on a minute restriction.
with everyone's favourite ex-toronto blue jay running the Celtics... they're going to be good for a long, long time.\
On December 31 2017 03:56 Yaqoob wrote: I thought that IT wasn't going to play against Boston on Jan 3rd cause he didn't want to play against them unless he was at 100% and not on a minute restriction.
i suspect Cleveland will get worse when they add IT. i think IT's game and LBJ's game will go together like oil and water. My speculation is that their offense will stay about the same and their defense will get worse.
Here is the Average Age of Teams with players' ages weighted according to minutes played. + Show Spoiler +
any way you slice it the long term prospects for Cleveland look bleak.
uh, OG doesn't have an 8 foot wing span. i think its something like 7'2". it is no where near 8 feet man. we'll know how legit the Raptors are after the stretch of games from January 9th to February 1. Taylor Swift is a whiney, scrawny, pastey skinned blonde... .she does nothing for me.
nice insight into how they scrimmaged in the off-season. thx for posting. i found this most fascinating. "and we're trying to be much more unpredictable. Instead of a dozen or so set plays that, when you get to playoff times, teams can sit on, we're trying to have a bunch of actions -- maybe multiple actions in one series or reactions to how things get guarded and being able to counter those things."
Finally we have expert opinion on why DD and the Raptors are legit! Thanks/
Haha.. Only thing is I not sure where the author on SBNation got his winspan of 8'0 feet from. People corrected him right away in the comments below, but no correction since then. NBA officially put him at 7'6 I think.
Thanks to Nemireck for this link, highlighting for visibility...
Main points
Illegal defense 1979 - 2001 version - Isolation defense. Players cannot hover in dead zones guarding no one. Help defenders must go directly to the offensive player they want to guard. (Rule during Jordan era)
Illegal defense 2001 - present version - Zone defense but defensive players cannot camp in the paint for more than 3 seconds without guarding anyone . (Not related to the Jordan analysis, but provided for context)
Jordan scored a lot of his points in isolation because the ID system dictates isolation defense
The fact that MJ is arguably the best 1on1 player makes point #3 above easy
ID rules allowed MJ to pick on the defender as if it were a 1on1 game.
Help defense resulted in wide open teammates because defenders have to commit to the help and cannot be zoning between players and passing lanes, or they'd be called for ID violation
Some examples of Kobe and other players with the new ID rules, isolating, but with help d player sagging in between without actively defending anyone else
Some examples of ID version 1 plays without MJ where the paint is literally open because defensive players have to stick to their men, and this made offensive players more aggressive in their attacks
Some examples of IDv1 with MJ showing how it often starts as pure isolation plays on the perimeter, and him blowing by his defender to an open paint and the help defense coming late to stop MJ because they cant leave their men early and MJ is practically in the rim already
More IDv2 examples with Kobe and TMac, settling for long 2s because help d in lurking
Because IDv2 does not favor heavy isolation plays, teams adapted by using more pick and rolls...
...and shooters, specifically 3 point shooters
People say MJ would dominate now because no hand check rules, but he would have a more difficult time playing against IDv2...
...for example Kobe, TMac, and AI
Speculation that ID rule change was because of Shaq destroying the paint
Kids today learn about zone defense early
I'm going to be honest, the narrative of the video has some decent points, but the video is straight up bad. A lot of his examples of how easy Jordan has it at the rim because of slow rotations are retarded, similarly a lot of his examples of "illegal defense" are not. This happens back-to-back many times.
For instance at 3:00 he points to Tiago Splitter as illegal defense, but its not, he points far to early and Tiago could just as likely be coming in for a perfectly legal double. In fact Tiago's man is also in the direction Tiago is running so he could be legitimately recovering.
Then immediately at 3:08 he shows how "easy" Jordan has it, but Larry Bird is sagging off his man as is 44, and Jordan has to finish among 4 players contesting his shot. Then in the 3:27 clip an obvious dig by a celtic and the only real difference between this play and a modern play is that Jordan's teammate didn't stay at the 3 PT line for a wide open shot.
Then his Kobe example at 4:08 is Kobe... not passing to a wide open teammate at the 3 pt line.
4:54: The Pistons big man 22 is already in the Paint before Jordan while his man is at the 3 Pt Line.
After this, he seems to not understand why the game is now all about 3s & Driving. He thinks people do Pick n' Roll because it frees you up, but its actually so you can get semi-iso mismatches between a fast guy and a slow guy or a wide open big guy. In other words, he ignores the just as important nearly co-incident rule change: Removal of the Handcheck. PnR was less used because getting your PG into a mismatch is less useful when the big guy can just grab his shorts when the PG comes off the screen.
So, yes, illegal defense rules made 1v1s less common, but handcheck removal made successful 1v1 defense impossible. It basically switched what was the hardest part of scoring from step 1 of getting by your man to step 2 of finishing in traffic. If his theory was correct, we would have seen tons of dominant 6'2'' guys going back through the 80s because they would just iso, blow by their man 1v1, and the big guys would not be able to contest at the rim, that wasn't true, and it cuts both ways. Guys like Jordan would have to pass more out of the 3v1s (that would be easier to get), but guys like Westbrook and Lebron would have to develop actual footwork to even get into the lane.
Thanks to Nemireck for this link, highlighting for visibility...
Main points
Illegal defense 1979 - 2001 version - Isolation defense. Players cannot hover in dead zones guarding no one. Help defenders must go directly to the offensive player they want to guard. (Rule during Jordan era)
Illegal defense 2001 - present version - Zone defense but defensive players cannot camp in the paint for more than 3 seconds without guarding anyone . (Not related to the Jordan analysis, but provided for context)
Jordan scored a lot of his points in isolation because the ID system dictates isolation defense
The fact that MJ is arguably the best 1on1 player makes point #3 above easy
ID rules allowed MJ to pick on the defender as if it were a 1on1 game.
Help defense resulted in wide open teammates because defenders have to commit to the help and cannot be zoning between players and passing lanes, or they'd be called for ID violation
Some examples of Kobe and other players with the new ID rules, isolating, but with help d player sagging in between without actively defending anyone else
Some examples of ID version 1 plays without MJ where the paint is literally open because defensive players have to stick to their men, and this made offensive players more aggressive in their attacks
Some examples of IDv1 with MJ showing how it often starts as pure isolation plays on the perimeter, and him blowing by his defender to an open paint and the help defense coming late to stop MJ because they cant leave their men early and MJ is practically in the rim already
More IDv2 examples with Kobe and TMac, settling for long 2s because help d in lurking
Because IDv2 does not favor heavy isolation plays, teams adapted by using more pick and rolls...
...and shooters, specifically 3 point shooters
People say MJ would dominate now because no hand check rules, but he would have a more difficult time playing against IDv2...
...for example Kobe, TMac, and AI
Speculation that ID rule change was because of Shaq destroying the paint
Kids today learn about zone defense early
I'm going to be honest, the narrative of the video has some decent points, but the video is straight up bad. A lot of his examples of how easy Jordan has it at the rim because of slow rotations are retarded, similarly a lot of his examples of "illegal defense" are not. This happens back-to-back many times.
For instance at 3:00 he points to Tiago Splitter as illegal defense, but its not, he points far to early and Tiago could just as likely be coming in for a perfectly legal double. In fact Tiago's man is also in the direction Tiago is running so he could be legitimately recovering.
Then immediately at 3:08 he shows how "easy" Jordan has it, but Larry Bird is sagging off his man as is 44, and Jordan has to finish among 4 players contesting his shot. Then in the 3:27 clip an obvious dig by a celtic and the only real difference between this play and a modern play is that Jordan's teammate didn't stay at the 3 PT line for a wide open shot.
Then his Kobe example at 4:08 is Kobe... not passing to a wide open teammate at the 3 pt line.
4:54: The Pistons big man 22 is already in the Paint before Jordan while his man is at the 3 Pt Line.
After this, he seems to not understand why the game is now all about 3s & Driving. He thinks people do Pick n' Roll because it frees you up, but its actually so you can get semi-iso mismatches between a fast guy and a slow guy or a wide open big guy. In other words, he ignores the just as important nearly co-incident rule change: Removal of the Handcheck. PnR was less used because getting your PG into a mismatch is less useful when the big guy can just grab his shorts when the PG comes off the screen.
So, yes, illegal defense rules made 1v1s less common, but handcheck removal made successful 1v1 defense impossible. It basically switched what was the hardest part of scoring from step 1 of getting by your man to step 2 of finishing in traffic. If his theory was correct, we would have seen tons of dominant 6'2'' guys going back through the 80s because they would just iso, blow by their man 1v1, and the big guys would not be able to contest at the rim, that wasn't true, and it cuts both ways. Guys like Jordan would have to pass more out of the 3v1s (that would be easier to get), but guys like Westbrook and Lebron would have to develop actual footwork to even get into the lane.
Good points too, glad someone made a detailed comment on this. Although it really is more noticeable how in IDv1 all the other can just camp outside the paint and allow the iso player a really clear drive to the bucket, but more examples from that era need to be seen for it to be a definitive conclusion. Posting this to the top if you dont mind...
until tonight i had no clue who Luke Kennard was. and i guess that'll about do it... Leonard looked off tonight.. way off. no excuse for the rest of the Spurs though....my man Kyle Anderson was pretty good.. as usual. well played by Detroit.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/DzbkP5T.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/8mnubdk.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/hao9f99jh3701.jpg)
