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I'll disagree with pande. Chelsea may have won the league last season and fa cup this season, but we're clearly going downhill. We let go of experienced players like matic and Costa who are serial winners and replaced them with Morata and bakayoko. We spent money on fringe players like Drinkwater, zappacosta and barkley, players who are a class below our usual signings.
Meanwhile Liverpool may have won nothing but they are an exciting project and work in progress. Klopp inherited a rubbish squad and has slowly improved the team. So much money spent fixing a shit base squad, I wouldn't expect trophies yet, I would expect signs that money is well spent. The team finally is a top 4 side, plays like one, and is actually feared by top teams in Europe. Keep it up and it's only a matter of time before the team learns to win trophies.
Winning trophies isn't everything.
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It's a bit of a watershed moment for all the London teams. Chelsea have seen investment in new players slow over the last season or two as well as a bit of disruption in the dressing room. WIll they fork out for some new players this summer and pull things together for a good campaign next year?
Pochettino has done an incredible job with the resources available to him and really shown his worth as a manager. But Spurs' history suggest they won't now increases wages and investment to keep themselves the top 4 team he has made them. Can they change the systematic way the club is run to become a top team for the long term?
Arsenal? Nobody knows what will happen there over the next few years.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 31 2018 08:28 DucK- wrote:
I'll disagree with pande. Chelsea may have won the league last season and fa cup this season, but we're clearly going downhill. We let go of experienced players like matic and Costa who are serial winners and replaced them with Morata and bakayoko. We spent money on fringe players like Drinkwater, zappacosta and barkley, players who are a class below our usual signings.
Meanwhile Liverpool may have won nothing but they are an exciting project and work in progress. Klopp inherited a rubbish squad and has slowly improved the team. So much money spent fixing a shit base squad, I wouldn't expect trophies yet, I would expect signs that money is well spent. The team finally is a top 4 side, plays like one, and is actually feared by top teams in Europe. Keep it up and it's only a matter of time before the team learns to win trophies.
Winning trophies isn't everything.
You responded with the exact words i was looking for here. I'll bold them. The first season, they are a "work in progress" 3 seasons of work in progress already and they have made 3 finals, but have lost 3 finals. You don't win anything for being second place, you won't look back in 5/10/15 years time and say, oh remember that team we had under Klopp, so good that, we managed 3 finals in 3 seasons.
Now i get that they play "good" football in some peoples eyes, that is fine, football is opinions, that is how the game works. But why is their attacking, free flowing football where one guy scores 44 goals on his own, not winning anything? No one at Man City was close to 44 goals this season, yet they won the league. Chelsea top scorer was fkn 12 goals LOL, they managed to win a domestic cup.
Like Sneirac said, for me, this argument, will not go away until Liverpool win something, hell it could even be the capital one cup and you can goade that over me, but as of right now. It's a lot of potential, over £300million spent on players in his time and they have what to show for it? Some great attacking football, sure, but come May when you have nothing to celebrate apart from hoping your players don't get sold to Barcelona again...
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So no one should ever support a second tier team ever with your reasonning. Of course people remember good runs and appreciate them, trophies are far from being that important. Just look at Germany, they have the best fans all over their first three divisions and they barely get scraps left by Bayern to divide between all of them. Have you seen Coln's fan in Europe? They were ecstatic, they're relegated at the end of the season but they'll have a better atmosphere in Bundesliga 2 than in any PL stadium. A lot of people genuinely appreciate 11 players on the field giving their best, there are very few trophies and a lot of clubs.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Not saying you shouldn't support anyone, i am saying they shouldn't be called/considered a world class successful team, they are not. They are just a good team, but it isn't successful it is just a good team.
I never once said their fans should stop going or the club is a joke lol, i understand 4 trophies a season means you do not always win one, but if you are competing for the best transfer names, spending a lot of money as well (not net spend i know) and still coming up short in winning anything, then you are just a good team. Spurs are a good team, but they aren't world class, thoroughbred champions are they.
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On May 31 2018 17:17 Pandemona wrote:
Not saying you shouldn't support anyone, i am saying they shouldn't be called/considered a world class successful team, they are not. They are just a good team, but it isn't successful it is just a good team.
I never once said their fans should stop going or the club is a joke lol, i understand 4 trophies a season means you do not always win one, but if you are competing for the best transfer names, spending a lot of money as well (not net spend i know) and still coming up short in winning anything, then you are just a good team. Spurs are a good team, but they aren't world class, thoroughbred champions are they.
All I hear is justification for calling Chelsea world class despite being a miserable failure this season :D
Hell, Chelsea wasn't even world class last year. They just kinda lucked into a title it seemed nobody else wanted. At least. Leicester actually had to fight for it and showed spirit. Chelsea was just the one that imploded the least. Deserved title, but not world class.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Haha i wouldn't call us world class, just that we have success with the way we are run under Roman for sure. However, sides like Real Madrid and Barcelona are world class for competing for many trophies every season. Bayern too are in this mould, there isn't many world class sides, but there are sides which you know have chances to win a competition they enter compared to other teams.
Ok, we won that league title with 30 wins, which at that point had never been done before and was beaten by 1 game by Man City side this year who has been dubbed greatest ever, so no i am not accepting lucked to the that title cuz everyone else was bad...unless you think Pep is a bad manager for what he did in his first half a billion £ worth of investment on City that season...
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On May 31 2018 17:36 Pandemona wrote:
Haha i wouldn't call us world class, just that we have success with the way we are run under Roman for sure. However, sides like Real Madrid and Barcelona are world class for competing for many trophies every season. Bayern too are in this mould, there isn't many world class sides, but there are sides which you know have chances to win a competition they enter compared to other teams.
Ok. I was wrong 
I agree with this.
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On May 31 2018 16:33 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2018 08:28 DucK- wrote:
I'll disagree with pande. Chelsea may have won the league last season and fa cup this season, but we're clearly going downhill. We let go of experienced players like matic and Costa who are serial winners and replaced them with Morata and bakayoko. We spent money on fringe players like Drinkwater, zappacosta and barkley, players who are a class below our usual signings.
Meanwhile Liverpool may have won nothing but they are an exciting project and work in progress. Klopp inherited a rubbish squad and has slowly improved the team. So much money spent fixing a shit base squad, I wouldn't expect trophies yet, I would expect signs that money is well spent. The team finally is a top 4 side, plays like one, and is actually feared by top teams in Europe. Keep it up and it's only a matter of time before the team learns to win trophies.
Winning trophies isn't everything. You responded with the exact words i was looking for here. I'll bold them. The first season, they are a "work in progress" 3 seasons of work in progress already and they have made 3 finals, but have lost 3 finals. You don't win anything for being second place, you won't look back in 5/10/15 years time and say, oh remember that team we had under Klopp, so good that, we managed 3 finals in 3 seasons. Now i get that they play "good" football in some peoples eyes, that is fine, football is opinions, that is how the game works. But why is their attacking, free flowing football where one guy scores 44 goals on his own, not winning anything? No one at Man City was close to 44 goals this season, yet they won the league. Chelsea top scorer was fkn 12 goals LOL, they managed to win a domestic cup. Like Sneirac said, for me, this argument, will not go away until Liverpool win something, hell it could even be the capital one cup and you can goade that over me, but as of right now. It's a lot of potential, over £300million spent on players in his time and they have what to show for it? Some great attacking football, sure, but come May when you have nothing to celebrate apart from hoping your players don't get sold to Barcelona again...
Liverpool is an exciting project. Success don't come overnight, unless you spend crazy amount of money like manc or early Chelsea (in relative terms). 3 years and not winning anything is fine. 2 more years and still a drought, that's when I would start the questioning. You need to remember how rubbish pre-Klopp Liverpool was in terms of player quality aside from Coutinho. He pretty much needed brand new players in every position and the bench.
Chelsea may have won the title last season and FA cup this season, but I'm not at all proud. That's because we're going downwards like how Arsenal was for the past decade (or Milan because they couldn't replace the old guard). Conte won the title cuz he inherited a squad that knew how to win and so happened his side sucked the least. Credit has to be due though because he created a tactic that no team could figure out at that point. We just won FA cup earlier, should we consider this season a success? Are we in the right track? Clearly not. We have more trophies than Liverpool simply because we started off in a better position than them squad wise. And we have to be careful because the gap is closing.
I'm a Chelsea supporter but I don't let my bias get in the way. I think you're still a few years too early to slam Liverpool's lack of trophies.
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On May 31 2018 18:28 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2018 16:33 Pandemona wrote:On May 31 2018 08:28 DucK- wrote:
I'll disagree with pande. Chelsea may have won the league last season and fa cup this season, but we're clearly going downhill. We let go of experienced players like matic and Costa who are serial winners and replaced them with Morata and bakayoko. We spent money on fringe players like Drinkwater, zappacosta and barkley, players who are a class below our usual signings.
Meanwhile Liverpool may have won nothing but they are an exciting project and work in progress. Klopp inherited a rubbish squad and has slowly improved the team. So much money spent fixing a shit base squad, I wouldn't expect trophies yet, I would expect signs that money is well spent. The team finally is a top 4 side, plays like one, and is actually feared by top teams in Europe. Keep it up and it's only a matter of time before the team learns to win trophies.
Winning trophies isn't everything. You responded with the exact words i was looking for here. I'll bold them. The first season, they are a "work in progress" 3 seasons of work in progress already and they have made 3 finals, but have lost 3 finals. You don't win anything for being second place, you won't look back in 5/10/15 years time and say, oh remember that team we had under Klopp, so good that, we managed 3 finals in 3 seasons. Now i get that they play "good" football in some peoples eyes, that is fine, football is opinions, that is how the game works. But why is their attacking, free flowing football where one guy scores 44 goals on his own, not winning anything? No one at Man City was close to 44 goals this season, yet they won the league. Chelsea top scorer was fkn 12 goals LOL, they managed to win a domestic cup. Like Sneirac said, for me, this argument, will not go away until Liverpool win something, hell it could even be the capital one cup and you can goade that over me, but as of right now. It's a lot of potential, over £300million spent on players in his time and they have what to show for it? Some great attacking football, sure, but come May when you have nothing to celebrate apart from hoping your players don't get sold to Barcelona again... Liverpool is an exciting project. Success don't come overnight, unless you spend crazy amount of money like manc or early Chelsea (in relative terms).
Even with City spending and fairly secure title in the pocket, they got knocked out in UCL this season and dropped out of FA Cup vs Wigan too. Winning cup competitions here and now isn't easy at all even with one of the best teams PL has ever seen.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
But Scouse pre Klopp was Rodgers' Scouse team which finished 2nd which would have won the league if Gerrard didn't slip vs Chelsea reserves and lose them the game lol. That also was when Sturride and Suarez both had like 30 goals in that season as well, with Gerrard coming to the end of his career etc.
I agree that maybe it might be a bit early, but don't think Klopp inherited a terrible squad, it wasn't world beating side but it wasn't trash.
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On May 31 2018 19:14 Pandemona wrote:
But Scouse pre Klopp was Rodgers' Scouse team which finished 2nd which would have won the league if Gerrard didn't slip vs Chelsea reserves and lose them the game lol. That also was when Sturride and Suarez both had like 30 goals in that season as well, with Gerrard coming to the end of his career etc.
I agree that maybe it might be a bit early, but don't think Klopp inherited a terrible squad, it wasn't world beating side but it wasn't trash.
Huh? That one miracle season that Suarez *nearly* carried them to the league title (well, him and Gerrard)... and then got bought by Barça? And the next year looked miserable, and then Gerrard retired? And Sturridge looked fantastic in that season too, but hasn't ever shown that form again.
E: also, you seem to be jousting at windmills. I don't think anybody here is trying to make the case that Liverpool is a world beating side. They're trying to say that Klopp is doing a fantastic job of building Liverpool up to what *can become* a regular contender for PL, and continue to make deep runs in European tournaments.
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Zidane is doing a surprise press conference right now. Rumours going around that he will resign.
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On May 31 2018 20:02 Pandemona wrote:
When does that "building" process finish? He has been there 3 seasons, that is my argument. 3 Seasons, 0 trophies, £300million plus worth of talent bought into the club, nothing to show for it yet.
Didn't we already address the money side thoroughly enough?
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On May 31 2018 20:02 Pandemona wrote:When does that "building" process finish? He has been there 3 seasons, that is my argument. 3 Seasons, 0 trophies, £300million plus worth of talent bought into the club, nothing to show for it yet. Mourinho normally done and dusted after 3 seasons at a club remember  in that time normally has won the league and a few trophies xD Just using as an example of time frame.
I dunno. I'm an Ajax fan. The building never ends 
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On May 31 2018 20:02 maze. wrote:
Zidane is doing a surprise press conference right now. Rumours going around that he will resign.
He did.
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Deschamps extended his contract till 2020, perfect 2 years break for Zidane
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Haha Zidane leaves, wtf. Guess with Real leave whilst your on top is 100% the right thing to do if not you get sacked. He leaves with a huge legacy in place thanks to winning 3 CL.
#WENGER IN?!?!?!
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EPT
