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On May 04 2017 02:20 mahrgell wrote:
Minor news:
UEFA is currently testing to change the order of shooting during penalty shootouts.
Under the current model the team having the first shot has a 60% win rate and so new shooting order to be tested would be ABBAABBAAB.
60% is fucked up lol volvo fix plz
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The game went full retard, I hope Lyon will be able to make Ajax pay for those missed opportunities.
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Haha yeah should have scored at least 6 with so many chances. Lyon can still win 3-0 at home and gg. Still cool to see one of our clubs dominate an international game for once again.
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We've been playing well at home for months now. We outplayed Kopenhagen, Schalke and Lyon in Europe and Feyenoord + a lot of dutch clubs in the national league.
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On May 04 2017 02:07 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:29 Rebs wrote:On May 03 2017 22:54 nojok wrote:On May 03 2017 21:36 Dingodile wrote:On May 03 2017 14:28 WillyWanker wrote:
No, that's because these were the only 3 that could compete with Messi or CR. I think nostalgia affects us a lot. I don't remember Zidane ever reaching Messi's level on more than 2-3 games. I don't remember Henry being better than Suarez. The only thing I think the current generation is missing, is great defenders. The previous generations had amazing defenders, but now I don't see any that's an absolute boss. We have (enough) excellent/great defenders, but they all are helpless vs Messi and CR7. I think that all generations of defenders are/were bad against the two. I disagree, they're helpless against Real, Barca or ManU at their best. Every decent South American team handled Messi easily during the qualifiers for the world cup 2018 so far and Ronaldo was no way near as threatening with Portugal than he is with Real. Don't get me wrong, they're the two best players in the history of football but they're not the monsters sold by the media. They're only as good as their respective teams make them. Uhh no, they are still monsters, plenty of people have had very powerful squads to play in over the years, no one is as consistenty high level as those two. This has nothing to do with the media, or perception, just the numbers are enough. Please also note that for all the "handling" that people have done of these players they are still the top goal scoreres of all time for their countries and average half a goal a game, an average no player that has played a 100+ games comes even close to matching if you couple their club success. In isolation maybe only Pele and Puskas are better. And both played in monster teams against tubby ass defenders that had beer guts and were only good for knocking you down. Anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to check on either foot would run rings around them. Not sure what you are babbling about their great international stats... Because they are simply not that outstanding... It doesn't even need Puskas or Pele. Messi 117 appearances, 58 goals CR7 138 apps, 71 goals Batistuta 77 apps, 54 goals <<< so nobody comes close to Messi in Argentina stat wise? really? 40 games less, only 4 goals less Klose 137 apps, 71 goals <<< even Klose reaches CR7 stats ^.^ G. Müller 62 apps, 68 goals <<< yeah, needed only half the games for that amount of goals... I guess this is why you had to ask for 100+ games. His club stats with Bayern are on Messi level too. Daei 149 apps, 109 goals <<< has to be mentioned, current World record holder. But yes, playing in Asia inflates stats. Drogba 104 apps, 65 goals <<< fewer games/goals, but more known than Daei. But playing in Africa. Keane 146 apps, 68 goals <<< in Europe. With fucking Ireland... Let's talk about carrying a team. Overall 0.5 goals per game is the mark for a fair number of international top scorers. It is really good without any doubt... But Messi and CR7 are certainly not alone in those spheres.
On May 03 2017 23:29 Rebs wrote:
l time for their countries and average half a goal a game, an average no player that has played a 100+ games comes even close to matching if you couple their club success. In isolation maybe only Pele and Puskas are better. And both played in monster teams against tubby ass defenders that had beer guts and were only good for knocking you down. Anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to check on either foot would run rings around them.
Reading is hard, feel free to feel stupid. Or just double down, whatever you want.
And please if you are going to start counting people who had a good chunck of their games again Bahrain and the Emirates or Sierre Leone or whatever, then I have no argument for you.
And ofcourse I put Puskas in because he did it against the best opposition on offer (relatively anyway, still a bunch of beer guts) . You could put Muller in the discussion but Muller is also outstanding. Im not sure what else you would call his international performance, hes just not quite the same at Club level.
On a digressive biff Im like 99% sure you havent even seen Ali Daei playing, I have grown up watching these guys because thats all that was available, he was pretty average player, by any European standard, that is why the numbers in isolation arent worth much but when paired with other factors mean a whole lot more.
In any case, lets assume I am babbling and the numbers matter in isolation even accounting for those people to the list, thats still like 10 people. How is that not "outstanding?"
Which really only reinforces how much greater those 2 are tbh.
There is a good reason for the Keane number is well, its the Kevin Philips syndrome, when you are literally the only person on your team capable for scoring.
So yes there is a reason I put in the qualifiers for games and the pairing with club success and at what level because they matter.
Reprinting a wikipedia page for me doesnt really make a difference, anyone can look that up. I didn't make my point not knowing those details. But thanks for the useless info dump to make a case against an argument that doesnt exist.
Focus less on being insulting and perhaps the point will be clearer next time.
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On May 04 2017 03:59 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 02:07 mahrgell wrote:On May 03 2017 23:29 Rebs wrote:On May 03 2017 22:54 nojok wrote:On May 03 2017 21:36 Dingodile wrote:On May 03 2017 14:28 WillyWanker wrote:
No, that's because these were the only 3 that could compete with Messi or CR. I think nostalgia affects us a lot. I don't remember Zidane ever reaching Messi's level on more than 2-3 games. I don't remember Henry being better than Suarez. The only thing I think the current generation is missing, is great defenders. The previous generations had amazing defenders, but now I don't see any that's an absolute boss. We have (enough) excellent/great defenders, but they all are helpless vs Messi and CR7. I think that all generations of defenders are/were bad against the two. I disagree, they're helpless against Real, Barca or ManU at their best. Every decent South American team handled Messi easily during the qualifiers for the world cup 2018 so far and Ronaldo was no way near as threatening with Portugal than he is with Real. Don't get me wrong, they're the two best players in the history of football but they're not the monsters sold by the media. They're only as good as their respective teams make them. Uhh no, they are still monsters, plenty of people have had very powerful squads to play in over the years, no one is as consistenty high level as those two. This has nothing to do with the media, or perception, just the numbers are enough. Please also note that for all the "handling" that people have done of these players they are still the top goal scoreres of all time for their countries and average half a goal a game, an average no player that has played a 100+ games comes even close to matching if you couple their club success. In isolation maybe only Pele and Puskas are better. And both played in monster teams against tubby ass defenders that had beer guts and were only good for knocking you down. Anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to check on either foot would run rings around them. Not sure what you are babbling about their great international stats... Because they are simply not that outstanding... It doesn't even need Puskas or Pele. Messi 117 appearances, 58 goals CR7 138 apps, 71 goals Batistuta 77 apps, 54 goals <<< so nobody comes close to Messi in Argentina stat wise? really? 40 games less, only 4 goals less Klose 137 apps, 71 goals <<< even Klose reaches CR7 stats ^.^ G. Müller 62 apps, 68 goals <<< yeah, needed only half the games for that amount of goals... I guess this is why you had to ask for 100+ games. His club stats with Bayern are on Messi level too. Daei 149 apps, 109 goals <<< has to be mentioned, current World record holder. But yes, playing in Asia inflates stats. Drogba 104 apps, 65 goals <<< fewer games/goals, but more known than Daei. But playing in Africa. Keane 146 apps, 68 goals <<< in Europe. With fucking Ireland... Let's talk about carrying a team. Overall 0.5 goals per game is the mark for a fair number of international top scorers. It is really good without any doubt... But Messi and CR7 are certainly not alone in those spheres. Show nested quote +On May 03 2017 23:29 Rebs wrote:
l time for their countries and average half a goal a game, an average no player that has played a 100+ games comes even close to matching if you couple their club success. In isolation maybe only Pele and Puskas are better. And both played in monster teams against tubby ass defenders that had beer guts and were only good for knocking you down. Anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to check on either foot would run rings around them. Reading is hard, feel free to feel stupid. Or just double down, whatever you want. And please if you are going to start counting people who had a good chunck of their games again Bahrain and the Emirates or Sierre Leone or whatever, then I have no argument for you. And ofcourse I put Puskas in because he did it against the best opposition on offer (relatively anyway, still a bunch of beer guts) . You could put Muller in the discussion but Muller is also outstanding. Im not sure what else you would call his international performance, hes just not quite the same at Club level. On a digressive biff Im like 99% sure you havent even seen Ali Daei playing, I have grown up watching these guys because thats all that was available, he was pretty average player, that is why the numbers in isolation arent worth much. Which really only reinforces how much greater those 2 are tbh. There is a good reason for the Keane number is well, its the Kevin Philips syndrome, when you are literally the only person on your team capable for scoring. So yes there is a reason I put in the qualifiers for games and the pairing with club success and at what level because they matter. Fuck that, even accounting for those people to the list, thats still like 10 people. How is that not "outstanding?" Reprinting a wikipedia page for me doesnt really make a difference, anyone can look that up. I didnt make my point not knowing those details. But thanks for the useless info dump to make a case against an argument that doesnt exist. Focus less on being insulting and perhaps the point will be clearer next time.
Reread your own post, I marked the essentials for you. You seem slightly upset.
And the point of discussion was, that Messi and CR7 do perform the way they do, because they have exceptional club teams around them. But at international level it shows that they are just the same level as many other international greats of the past. And not above them, as it was argued.
Only you tried to claim that their 0.5 goal/game would show that they are truely the greatest.
And not sure how you can even claim that Müller had less success at club level. :D
Batistuta you simply ignored, but I guess it wouldn't fit in your story line.
And yes, I have seen Daei play. Thats why his stats are so amusing and why I laugh at you fapping over Messis/CR7 international stats. Similar with Keene or Klose.
And there are quite a few more with similar stats.
So rant on. :D
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sheesh it looks like both of the semis are over after 1 game
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I really have to laugh when messi fanboys keep trying to make him great in the national team. If anything he has shown what a sore loser he is there. Ronaldo practically started his career losing a euro cup final at home and yet he never cried retirement at a much older age than messi.
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On May 04 2017 04:41 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 03:59 Rebs wrote:On May 04 2017 02:07 mahrgell wrote:On May 03 2017 23:29 Rebs wrote:On May 03 2017 22:54 nojok wrote:On May 03 2017 21:36 Dingodile wrote:On May 03 2017 14:28 WillyWanker wrote:
No, that's because these were the only 3 that could compete with Messi or CR. I think nostalgia affects us a lot. I don't remember Zidane ever reaching Messi's level on more than 2-3 games. I don't remember Henry being better than Suarez. The only thing I think the current generation is missing, is great defenders. The previous generations had amazing defenders, but now I don't see any that's an absolute boss. We have (enough) excellent/great defenders, but they all are helpless vs Messi and CR7. I think that all generations of defenders are/were bad against the two. I disagree, they're helpless against Real, Barca or ManU at their best. Every decent South American team handled Messi easily during the qualifiers for the world cup 2018 so far and Ronaldo was no way near as threatening with Portugal than he is with Real. Don't get me wrong, they're the two best players in the history of football but they're not the monsters sold by the media. They're only as good as their respective teams make them. Uhh no, they are still monsters, plenty of people have had very powerful squads to play in over the years, no one is as consistenty high level as those two. This has nothing to do with the media, or perception, just the numbers are enough. Please also note that for all the "handling" that people have done of these players they are still the top goal scoreres of all time for their countries and average half a goal a game, an average no player that has played a 100+ games comes even close to matching if you couple their club success. In isolation maybe only Pele and Puskas are better. And both played in monster teams against tubby ass defenders that had beer guts and were only good for knocking you down. Anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to check on either foot would run rings around them. Not sure what you are babbling about their great international stats... Because they are simply not that outstanding... It doesn't even need Puskas or Pele. Messi 117 appearances, 58 goals CR7 138 apps, 71 goals Batistuta 77 apps, 54 goals <<< so nobody comes close to Messi in Argentina stat wise? really? 40 games less, only 4 goals less Klose 137 apps, 71 goals <<< even Klose reaches CR7 stats ^.^ G. Müller 62 apps, 68 goals <<< yeah, needed only half the games for that amount of goals... I guess this is why you had to ask for 100+ games. His club stats with Bayern are on Messi level too. Daei 149 apps, 109 goals <<< has to be mentioned, current World record holder. But yes, playing in Asia inflates stats. Drogba 104 apps, 65 goals <<< fewer games/goals, but more known than Daei. But playing in Africa. Keane 146 apps, 68 goals <<< in Europe. With fucking Ireland... Let's talk about carrying a team. Overall 0.5 goals per game is the mark for a fair number of international top scorers. It is really good without any doubt... But Messi and CR7 are certainly not alone in those spheres. On May 03 2017 23:29 Rebs wrote:
l time for their countries and average half a goal a game, an average no player that has played a 100+ games comes even close to matching if you couple their club success. In isolation maybe only Pele and Puskas are better. And both played in monster teams against tubby ass defenders that had beer guts and were only good for knocking you down. Anyone with a bit of pace and the ability to check on either foot would run rings around them. Reading is hard, feel free to feel stupid. Or just double down, whatever you want. And please if you are going to start counting people who had a good chunck of their games again Bahrain and the Emirates or Sierre Leone or whatever, then I have no argument for you. And ofcourse I put Puskas in because he did it against the best opposition on offer (relatively anyway, still a bunch of beer guts) . You could put Muller in the discussion but Muller is also outstanding. Im not sure what else you would call his international performance, hes just not quite the same at Club level. On a digressive biff Im like 99% sure you havent even seen Ali Daei playing, I have grown up watching these guys because thats all that was available, he was pretty average player, that is why the numbers in isolation arent worth much. Which really only reinforces how much greater those 2 are tbh. There is a good reason for the Keane number is well, its the Kevin Philips syndrome, when you are literally the only person on your team capable for scoring. So yes there is a reason I put in the qualifiers for games and the pairing with club success and at what level because they matter. Fuck that, even accounting for those people to the list, thats still like 10 people. How is that not "outstanding?" Reprinting a wikipedia page for me doesnt really make a difference, anyone can look that up. I didnt make my point not knowing those details. But thanks for the useless info dump to make a case against an argument that doesnt exist. Focus less on being insulting and perhaps the point will be clearer next time. Reread your own post, I marked the essentials for you. You seem slightly upset. And the point of discussion was, that Messi and CR7 do perform the way they do, because they have exceptional club teams around them. But at international level it shows that they are just the same level as many other international greats of the past. And not above them, as it was argued. Only you tried to claim that their 0.5 goal/game would show that they are truely the greatest. And not sure how you can even claim that Müller had less success at club level. :D Batistuta you simply ignored, but I guess it wouldn't fit in your story line. And yes, I have seen Daei play. Thats why his stats are so amusing and why I laugh at you fapping over Messis/CR7 international stats. Similar with Keene or Klose. And there are quite a few more with similar stats. So rant on. :D
I didnt make that claim. You only picked up on half the claim.
Muller is not even close at club level ? Same for Batistuta ?
I wasnt arguing the point that they do what they do because of the clubs they have around them with the stats. I was arguing the point that international teams havent "handled them" with the stats comment. That was part 2 of 2.
If anything maintaing those numbers with poorer team environments is even more impressive. As opposed to sayyy Muller, or Batistuta who had pretty strong teams around them at international level.
Im sorry but I dont see what fapping is involved with respect to the international stats they are still up there and exceed when you combine clubs. And you missed a critical point, that other players have had powerful teams dominant clubs teams aswell and not performed at the same level. Only these 2 have actually managed to do both. Hence the pairing.
Please review the sequence of comments. Its actually kinda of disappointing when people pick up on part of an argument and try to deconstruct it in isolation, you are basically Sharkie at that point.
And I did just get a "umadbro?" on the internet, how original. Again i would encourage you to not be dismissive, consider the comments with a more holistic outlook and not latch on to whatever you disagree with because that seems smart.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Higuain turning up for the big game too? 2-0 lead seems very hard for Monaco to overturn considering they normally ship a few when they go gung ho!
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Trademark performance from Juventus. Ugly, slow and boring as always.
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Juve is so well organised and all players help defending. I don't think Monaco can come back from this.
Side note : Alves for free was the best transfer last summer.
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Too bad Juve won, their play is boring and Higuain looks fat. But hey, they probably have a better chance in the final.
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On May 04 2017 05:33 Pandemona wrote:
Higuain turning up for the big game too? 2-0 lead seems very hard for Monaco to overturn considering they normally ship a few when they go gung ho!
Higuian scoring actually implies that Monaco is a weak side :p
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On May 04 2017 13:14 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 05:33 Pandemona wrote:
Higuain turning up for the big game too? 2-0 lead seems very hard for Monaco to overturn considering they normally ship a few when they go gung ho! Higuian scoring actually implies that Monaco is a weak side :p
Or no Messi on the pitch.
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This was genuianly the first thing I found looking for Champions League highlights.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
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On May 04 2017 18:47 Greg_J wrote:This was genuianly the first thing I found looking for Champions League highlights.
i'm genuinely amazed...
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Yanited time vs Celta Vigo. Can Yanited follow suit with the rest of the games so far which all seemed to be finished in the first leg!!!
Spoiler, of course not, be 1-1 xD
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EPT
