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On July 17 2015 03:26 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 21:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:
A nice person PM'ed me, and I'll repeat a bit of what I said there.
There is every single reason to worry. I was doing everything right for almost 3 years, and then I got a shoulder injury, simply because I was doing dips a little too low, and going down too low on my OHDP press and incline bench. This injury was extremely demotivating... And could be attributed in part to why I stopped working out in the first place. In regards to shoulders, this article has been recently making the rounds on reddit: https://www.t-nation.com/training/shoulder-shockerI know people's opinions of tnation have gone downhill, and I'm going to keep doing the ohp, but it might be worth a read.
Today was shoulder day so I did the shoulder shocker. Great pumps, would try again.
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Thanks @Strongmang, I'll make sure to give you the same advice the next time you get an injury, let me know how you find that constructive feedback. I know you were just baiting a reaction, so there ya go. But anyway, nothing in my life to suggest a testosterone deficiency, so no thanks.
@IgnE, I thought it'd be clear enough that I'm looking for the pros and cons of each exercise, with an option to add a disclaimer, telling me it's not really necessary for me, etc. But what you did just wasn't answer the question I was after. Even if it wasn't properly worded initially, I think it was made clear after responding to a couple people in this thread.
@Najda, thanks for the article. I still do OHDP, but I go down maybe 10-15 degrees below parallel, I find it puts less strain on my shoulders, and I completely removed dips from my workout routines as well. The tone of the article doesn't sound very reputable to me. When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference. I think a person like eshlow has his mind in the right place with regards to working out. I do agree that the shoulder is the most commonly injured part of the body though.
Anyway, I think I'll use this thread to mostly just lurk and find some interesting tidbits of information, or to post statuses. I find the tone of this thread doesn't really suit someone like me.
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I can't read your mind bro. I can only respond to questions as written. My unsolicited opinion is that you are small, think you know everything, and looking to remain small. Don't tell me you are cutting out dips and scared of hurting your shoulders but also say:
When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference.
Here's another anecdote for you. I've been doing pull-aparts the last six months and it's greatly improved how healthy my shoulders feel. I would bet that you can't deliberately contract your lower traps and might not even know where they are or what they do, but you are sitting up on your scientific high horse pondering the differences between a 30 and 45 degree barbell row.
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@fiwifaki - Actually that would be some pretty solid advice if some one told me to get my testosterone levels checked.... I had my levels checked and found out I actually had pretty low testosterone lol! The important thing here is to swallow your pride and check your ego and maybe listen to the advice people with experience is giving you. Igne has given some pretty good advice that your choosing not to accept for whatever reason baffles me.
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I use a flat vibram-soled shoe for everything that's not squatting or oly lifting related and I put on weightlifting shoes whenever I squat or do oly related things.
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On July 17 2015 10:07 IgnE wrote:I can't read your mind bro. I can only respond to questions as written. My unsolicited opinion is that you are small, think you know everything, and looking to remain small. Don't tell me you are cutting out dips and scared of hurting your shoulders but also say: Show nested quote +When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference. Here's another anecdote for you. I've been doing pull-aparts the last six months and it's greatly improved how healthy my shoulders feel. I would bet that you can't deliberately contract your lower traps and might not even know where they are or what they do, but you are sitting up on your scientific high horse pondering the differences between a 30 and 45 degree barbell row.
Scott Herman is also "small", Conor McGregor is also "small" that doesn't make it wrong to want to look like them. I took a look at your pics in the 2014 thread, and I don't want to look like that. I'm not saying you look bad, but it's too big, and not toned enough for my liking. I know the term "athletic build" gets a lot of crap, but I cycle a lot, play tennis, squash, ski.... Weighing 240lbs makes that difficult to do. If I can't run 10km easily, I wouldn't want to look like that, and I don't know many people who weigh 240lb that can run 10km like it was a breeze... Anyway, few people with that mentality here, but just trying
Anyway, different goals, and again, you're making assumptions about me, which aren't correct.
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On July 17 2015 03:26 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 21:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:
A nice person PM'ed me, and I'll repeat a bit of what I said there.
There is every single reason to worry. I was doing everything right for almost 3 years, and then I got a shoulder injury, simply because I was doing dips a little too low, and going down too low on my OHDP press and incline bench. This injury was extremely demotivating... And could be attributed in part to why I stopped working out in the first place. In regards to shoulders, this article has been recently making the rounds on reddit: https://www.t-nation.com/training/shoulder-shockerI know people's opinions of tnation have gone downhill, and I'm going to keep doing the ohp, but it might be worth a read.
I think that article is a bunch of horseshit.
In my experience strong upper delts (from overhead pressing) and shoulder flexibility are key to healthiness. Most Oly lifters injure their wrist, elbows, knees and back, but rarely their shoulders despite brutally abusing them. The OHP is a lot more straining to the back than the shoulders imo, injury wise.
Bench Press with bad form is the number one shoulder destroyer, by a mile. Arching the upperback and pinching the blades together is not "powerlifting" form, it's the only acceptable way.
Benching also leads to overdeveloped front delts and tight shoulders.
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I'm 220 right now with better abs than you have.
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On July 17 2015 10:24 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 10:07 IgnE wrote:I can't read your mind bro. I can only respond to questions as written. My unsolicited opinion is that you are small, think you know everything, and looking to remain small. Don't tell me you are cutting out dips and scared of hurting your shoulders but also say: When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference. Here's another anecdote for you. I've been doing pull-aparts the last six months and it's greatly improved how healthy my shoulders feel. I would bet that you can't deliberately contract your lower traps and might not even know where they are or what they do, but you are sitting up on your scientific high horse pondering the differences between a 30 and 45 degree barbell row. Scott Herman is also "small", Conor McGregor is also "small" that doesn't make it wrong to want to look like them. I took a look at your pics in the 2014 thread, and I don't want to look like that. I'm not saying you look bad, but it's too big, and not toned enough for my liking. I know the term "athletic build" gets a lot of crap, but I cycle a lot, play tennis, squash, ski.... Weighing 240lbs makes that difficult to do. If I can't run 10km easily, I wouldn't want to look like that, and I don't know many people who weigh 240lb that can run 10km like it was a breeze... Anyway, few people with that mentality here, but just trying Anyway, different goals, and again, you're making assumptions about me, which aren't correct.
You're unwittingly making a case for the theory that lower bf and more aerobic intensive sports and activities increase the risk of injury more than resistance training.
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On July 17 2015 10:29 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 10:24 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 17 2015 10:07 IgnE wrote:I can't read your mind bro. I can only respond to questions as written. My unsolicited opinion is that you are small, think you know everything, and looking to remain small. Don't tell me you are cutting out dips and scared of hurting your shoulders but also say: When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference. Here's another anecdote for you. I've been doing pull-aparts the last six months and it's greatly improved how healthy my shoulders feel. I would bet that you can't deliberately contract your lower traps and might not even know where they are or what they do, but you are sitting up on your scientific high horse pondering the differences between a 30 and 45 degree barbell row. Scott Herman is also "small", Conor McGregor is also "small" that doesn't make it wrong to want to look like them. I took a look at your pics in the 2014 thread, and I don't want to look like that. I'm not saying you look bad, but it's too big, and not toned enough for my liking. I know the term "athletic build" gets a lot of crap, but I cycle a lot, play tennis, squash, ski.... Weighing 240lbs makes that difficult to do. If I can't run 10km easily, I wouldn't want to look like that, and I don't know many people who weigh 240lb that can run 10km like it was a breeze... Anyway, few people with that mentality here, but just trying Anyway, different goals, and again, you're making assumptions about me, which aren't correct. You're unwittingly making a case for the theory that lower bf and more aerobic intensive sports and activities increase the risk of injury more than resistance training.
It's where my passion lies. Laying on a bed also has lower risk of injury than weightlifting (okay, in some weird way this might not be true, lets not get into that)... If I'm going to weightlift, I want to reduce my risks. If I'm going to run, I'm going to make sure I have proper gear to minimize risk of injury to my joints, etc.
I'm just shocked that most people here still cannot understand my mentality. Like if you care enough, and go look in the cycling/running thread, and mix that with eshlow mentality, and a hint of what's here... And poof, you have me when it comes to fitness. If someone doesn't want to get huge, doesn't mean they don't know that they are doing... Hell, in most sports people are thinking about how they can lose more weight without losing their strength.
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Dude those guys can all lift orders of magnitude more than you can.......by a long shot. You need to reevaluate your expectations or change your approach or disappointment is bound to follow.
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Honestly I'm just trying to help you get your head right so that you are still lifting in December. I know you are proud of your recent accomplishments in the gym, but three months is not a long time, and it would not be surprising if 2016 rolls around and you start posting, "well I fell off the wagon last August, but now I'm really ready to do it." Getting strong is a marathon not a sprint.
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On July 17 2015 10:36 farvacola wrote:
Dude those guys can all lift orders of magnitude more than you can.......by a long shot. You need to reevaluate your expectations or change your approach or disappointment is bound to follow.
Sigh, don't start trolling too farva.
I'm working towards my goals, and not concerned about disappointment. Remember, I've worked out in the past, I know what my body is capable of.
I'm not saying that this is what I'm expecting in a month, but saying that looking something like that might be an end goal for me, and then I'd have more emphasis on mobility, cardio, intensity training, etc. By a lot of peoples standards here, this is considered "small". Idc, this is more of what I'm aiming for.... Not lifting like strongmang, or seeing some 500lb+ deadlifts here, decaf, IgnE, etc.
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On July 17 2015 10:24 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 10:07 IgnE wrote:I can't read your mind bro. I can only respond to questions as written. My unsolicited opinion is that you are small, think you know everything, and looking to remain small. Don't tell me you are cutting out dips and scared of hurting your shoulders but also say: When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference. Here's another anecdote for you. I've been doing pull-aparts the last six months and it's greatly improved how healthy my shoulders feel. I would bet that you can't deliberately contract your lower traps and might not even know where they are or what they do, but you are sitting up on your scientific high horse pondering the differences between a 30 and 45 degree barbell row. Scott Herman is also "small", Conor McGregor is also "small" that doesn't make it wrong to want to look like them. I took a look at your pics in the 2014 thread, and I don't want to look like that. I'm not saying you look bad, but it's too big, and not toned enough for my liking. I know the term "athletic build" gets a lot of crap, but I cycle a lot, play tennis, squash, ski.... Weighing 240lbs makes that difficult to do. If I can't run 10km easily, I wouldn't want to look like that, and I don't know many people who weigh 240lb that can run 10km like it was a breeze... Anyway, few people with that mentality here, but just trying Anyway, different goals, and again, you're making assumptions about me, which aren't correct.
IDK, I run quite rarely now, and 10km isn't any harder for me now than it was 50 (lean) pounds ago when I actually ran three or four times a week. Not as easy as it was when I was on the cross country team - but that's a trade I'd happily make, as the rest of my QoL has improved so much since then it's not even funny. I'm an outlier though.
Anyway, this isn't a one or the other proposition like you're making it. You're not going to get an "athletic build" benching 135 pounds, and the things you're asking questions about really honestly don't matter, in the scheme of things. But I know where you're coming from. I spent years telling myself I could (think, program, analyze, insert word here, whatever you want to call it) my way to the goals I wanted to hit, and it doesn't work that way. 80% of the results come from just pushing yourself hard. The remainder comes from the questions you're asking, but worrying about this shit and then not taking that 80% is doing yourself a disservice.
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On July 17 2015 10:41 IgnE wrote:
Honestly I'm just trying to help you get your head right so that you are still lifting in December. I know you are proud of your recent accomplishments in the gym, but three months is not a long time, and it would not be surprising if 2016 rolls around and you start posting, "well I fell off the wagon last August, but now I'm really ready to do it." Getting strong is a marathon not a sprint.
Well thank you for the caring attitude I guess.
I fully agree, I know what it's like to lose years of progress lmao. It's tough with university for sure... But if your goal is to keep me motivated, don't you think instead of empowering your pupil with knowledge and confidence is better than telling them that they are shit, they don't even have muscles, they don't even know what any of their muscles do, etc?
Even in the past, I've just felt that people who have been working out for a while, get really stubborn in thinking their way is the best, and really talking down to new people that they know what's best. Just doesn't lead to healthy communication and advice imo.
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On July 17 2015 10:46 phyre112 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 10:24 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 17 2015 10:07 IgnE wrote:I can't read your mind bro. I can only respond to questions as written. My unsolicited opinion is that you are small, think you know everything, and looking to remain small. Don't tell me you are cutting out dips and scared of hurting your shoulders but also say: When someone tells me to do 100 pull-aparts a day for a year, well that's where I'm going to be like "yeah fuck that", if there isn't some science behind it. I dunno, it's just too anecdotal for my preference. Here's another anecdote for you. I've been doing pull-aparts the last six months and it's greatly improved how healthy my shoulders feel. I would bet that you can't deliberately contract your lower traps and might not even know where they are or what they do, but you are sitting up on your scientific high horse pondering the differences between a 30 and 45 degree barbell row. Scott Herman is also "small", Conor McGregor is also "small" that doesn't make it wrong to want to look like them. I took a look at your pics in the 2014 thread, and I don't want to look like that. I'm not saying you look bad, but it's too big, and not toned enough for my liking. I know the term "athletic build" gets a lot of crap, but I cycle a lot, play tennis, squash, ski.... Weighing 240lbs makes that difficult to do. If I can't run 10km easily, I wouldn't want to look like that, and I don't know many people who weigh 240lb that can run 10km like it was a breeze... Anyway, few people with that mentality here, but just trying Anyway, different goals, and again, you're making assumptions about me, which aren't correct. IDK, I run quite rarely now, and 10km isn't any harder for me now than it was 50 (lean) pounds ago when I actually ran three or four times a week. Not as easy as it was when I was on the cross country team - but that's a trade I'd happily make, as the rest of my QoL has improved so much since then it's not even funny. I'm an outlier though. Anyway, this isn't a one or the other proposition like you're making it. You're not going to get an "athletic build" benching 135 pounds, and the things you're asking questions about really honestly don't matter, in the scheme of things. But I know where you're coming from. I spent years telling myself I could (think, program, analyze, insert word here, whatever you want to call it) my way to the goals I wanted to hit, and it doesn't work that way. 80% of the results come from just pushing yourself hard. The remainder comes from the questions you're asking, but worrying about this shit and then not taking that 80% is doing yourself a disservice.
Yep, I agree with you 100%.
And I've been doing my thing for the 3 months, and have been making progress by working hard. If I wasn't doing it, that be a different thing completely (like spending a month deciding whether I should get resistance bands or a gym membership or something stupid), but I'm asked a question, to work on that last 20%, and to feel better about the work out I do.
I didn't come here asking this like this was the most important question I need to make progress, I just threw it in as a side thing in my post, to see what you guys think about the most effective way of doing the lift is, so I do it slightly better, slightly reduce my risk of injury, and understand the work out I am doing better, as that in turn makes me feel better about what I'm doing.
edit: And like I mentioned prior, I did struggle with this exercise in the past as well.
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My advice is to get a band and do 100 pull-aparts every morning upon waking.
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nice one i almost pulled my shoulder getting my resistance bands off the shelf
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EPT
