On July 24 2014 10:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: it has to do with who owns the team. BCE Inc. and Rogers. massive media companies.
nothing like a nice powder-puff piece to enhance your future job prospects with BCE and/or Rogers and the 94385739874589875893745 media outlets they own.
if you think this bloomberg article is bad... Shi Davidi is a walking-talking Alex Anthopolous blow job.
as for the Dubas hiring...
if Dubas were merely added to the current Leaf exec team it probably would not mean a lot... and it would be much adieu about nothing.
however, the Leafs cleared out Nonis' support employees and replaced them with Dubas. this makes Dubas one of the most powerful aGMs ( relative to other aGMs ) in the NHL.
so, it is a pretty big move for the leafs.
for all of this stats guru talk though... Dubas biggest move as GM of the Soo was born of political opportunism not the application of newly defined stats.
also, the Soo's biggest 3 acquisitions during Dubas tenure were via "eye ball scouting".. the stats they use in the Soo did not exist for the teams they played for at the time the Greyhounds scouted them.
The only 2 bullets Shanahan has left in his revolver are aimed directly at Nonis and Carlyle.
Shanahan is starting to make his mark on the Leafs.
it'll be interesting to see if Dubas becomes the Leaf's "capologist"
funny the bloomberg article never got into any of this nitty-gritty...we got wide-eyed talk and far fetched parallels.
Now they are. They weren't before and still the media circus surrounding all things Toronto sports is hilarious to follow. It happened long before Ted stepped into the picture with taking over the Skydome in '05 and before Bell got their share on the MLSE so spare us more of your bullshit. Those stories would have been around regardless, but it's a nice cover to fall on because it's so darn easy.
spare me your bullshit.
sry man, the Blue Jays and Leafs never got this kind of softball coverage before.
btm line is, the main coverage for the Jays and Leafs is all guys PAID by the company that owns the team... so you get guys who think that kissing ass is the best way to the top... in the past this was not possible because Labatt's/Interbrew and Stavros weren't paying you.
The 3 amigos never would've ripped Gaston to shreds if Labatt's/Interbrew signed their cheques... and Labatt's never would've allowed Gaston to play the race card between 4 employees... it is all detailed in "Pantload: 25 Years of Prime Time Sports"
Harold Ballard and Stavros never controlled the media that ripped them to shreds.
Both Wilner and Zaun have been disciplined for being too critical.
Funny how the Toronto Star has become our last vestige of independent journalism.
Newman said it best... "control the (e) mail and you control ..information"
with the Jays and Leafs covered by employees of the team... you just don't get the same coverage you did when it was all 100% independent.
No media member will ever speak out too loudly about it because they want to keep their future job prospects open at BCE Inc and ROgers who own like 23874982742987874 TV,Radio, Newspaper, and media outlets in Canada. it would be a career limiting move.
On July 24 2014 06:02 L1ghtning wrote: Unbelievable that O'Reilly got 6M/year. It's only two years though, so if it turns out to be a really bad deal, he'll be gone pretty soon.
dude's good for about 55-65 pts a year, and is really good both ways. that's gonna cost a pretty penny
He's nowhere close to Pavelski and Couture, who makes 6 million, and he's still got a lot to prove before he's in the big league for real. But I suppose it's not too bad because of the short term. He could still potentially improve even further. It's just a weird contract. Usually you see long term contracts for players in his situation.
ROR is starting his 6th season, and this would take him to UFA. Pavelski got 4x4 to start his 5th season in the league. They're very similar players, and you tack on a few years worth of salary cap inflation and it's basically the same. Couture's deal kicks in this year, which would be the start of his 6th season. He's got 5 years to ROR's 2 presumably because while they score at a pretty similar rate (.82 for Couture vs .80 for ROR this past year), Couture has been scoring at that rate for longer. And because the Avs seem to just wanna hang on to him for a year to see if they get anywhere with him before trading him.
ROR P/60: 2.00 Corsi QoC: 1.439 Corsi QoT: 2.214 Off Zone Start %: 48.8 Off Zone Finish %: 53.9
Couture P/60: 2.46 Corsi QoC: 0.864 Corse QoT: 8.00 Off Zone Start %: 46.0 Off Zone Finish %: 48.1
Pavelski P/60: 2.32 Corsi QoC: -0.059 Corse QoT: 9.756 Off Zone Start %: 47.5 Off Zone Finish %: 52.3
Looking at this, ROR and Couture were used in similar roles, more as a strength vs. strength role and make the better comparable. Pavelski was used more to light up weaker opposition - the kind of stuff you can get away with when you are as strong a team as SJ.
All three are treated as responsible players, able to be relied upon for tougher zone starts and to move the puck forward. The Sharks players scored at a higher rate but also benefited from being part of a much stronger team (I still believe Colorado is not nearly as strong a team as their record last year suggested).
So I don't see how anyone can argue that ROR is grossly overpaid. Especially considering the economics of a short-term deal and a guy getting to the point of free-agency. When you're a defensively-reliable center who can move the play up ice against tougher competition, put up points, and who is big, you are going to get paid. Those guys are hard to come by and every team in the league would like one or two. Those zone start/finishes are the most interesting point - especially since he cleaned house like that against tough opposition. That stuff is kind of a big deal.
Personally, if ROR walked to my team and got paid $6M for a few seasons, I'd be dancing a jig.
Jimmy's love of Babcock and dismissal of analytics is about to cause a infinite-error-loop in his poor brain. Babcock saw the math good.
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 2h Babcock on use of analytics: “The bottom line is the NFL and Major League Baseball, they have been way ahead of us in this area.”
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 3h Babcock said the Wings “will for sure” have to hire an analytics guy. “We just have to.” He said he’s a fan of it. “I love the information.”
Also patrick roy, the bambino, "other things", etc.
Lars Eller got offered 1.65 million by Montreal, apprently he is looking for 3.1 I have no fucking idea why he thinks he is worth 3.1 million.... Don't get me wrong I love Eller, and he did play great in the playoffs but regular season 26 points -15 in 77 games played is not worthy of getting you 3.1 million. I'd say give him 2x2 see if the playoffs weren't just a fluke then give him a pay upgrade if he proves it after. I really hope they don't end up letting him go, big forward, can play some defense, offensive potential.
A big part of the problem with him is Therrien moving him around all over the lines and dropping him to thrid/4th line where he doesn't get a chance to show his offensive abilities as much. When he was on the line with Gallagher and Galchenyuk he was lighting it up(Start of the season).
On July 25 2014 00:02 Flaccid wrote: Jimmy's love of Babcock and dismissal of analytics is about to cause a infinite-error-loop in his poor brain. Babcock saw the math good.
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 2h Babcock on use of analytics: “The bottom line is the NFL and Major League Baseball, they have been way ahead of us in this area.”
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 3h Babcock said the Wings “will for sure” have to hire an analytics guy. “We just have to.” He said he’s a fan of it. “I love the information.”
Also patrick roy, the bambino, "other things", etc.
lol, ya, that's why Andrew Friedman is my favourite GM in baseball. check my first ever post in the baseball thread from 2010 or 2009.. yup. i hate statistics... that's why i took courses like Life Cons 201 at Waterloo... i hate stats. i went to a school with no math department .. u of w... because i'm against math.
now morons spouting #s with no idea what they mean.. that is another matter.
babcock is a good coach... i dont know if i "love" him though. but he is good.
That is interesting, makes a lot more sense as to why his asking was 3.1 million. I expect him to end up with around 2 million when all is said and done.
The Fur is still flying in Glendale/Phoenix/Arizona as a group of politicians continues to try to stop giving 10s of millions of dollars to a pro hockey team
On July 25 2014 00:02 Flaccid wrote: Jimmy's love of Babcock and dismissal of analytics is about to cause a infinite-error-loop in his poor brain. Babcock saw the math good.
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 2h Babcock on use of analytics: “The bottom line is the NFL and Major League Baseball, they have been way ahead of us in this area.”
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 3h Babcock said the Wings “will for sure” have to hire an analytics guy. “We just have to.” He said he’s a fan of it. “I love the information.”
Also patrick roy, the bambino, "other things", etc.
Sir, we shouldnt bring Dan Cleary for another year, his knees are virtually useless. And we shouldnt sign an awful 6th pairing defensemen for more money and time, we have guys of equivalent value down on the farm that will costs us 750,000 a year. I dont care, CHARACTER
On July 25 2014 00:02 Flaccid wrote: Jimmy's love of Babcock and dismissal of analytics is about to cause a infinite-error-loop in his poor brain. Babcock saw the math good.
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 2h Babcock on use of analytics: “The bottom line is the NFL and Major League Baseball, they have been way ahead of us in this area.”
Retweeted by Scott Cullen Dan Rosen @drosennhl · 3h Babcock said the Wings “will for sure” have to hire an analytics guy. “We just have to.” He said he’s a fan of it. “I love the information.”
Also patrick roy, the bambino, "other things", etc.
Sir, we shouldnt bring Dan Cleary for another year, his knees are virtually useless. And we shouldnt sign an awful 6th pairing defensemen for more money and time, we have guys of equivalent value down on the farm that will costs us 750,000 a year. I dont care, CHARACTER
was it that hard to take? discovering that you didn't understand the salary cap implications of the Cleary signing? if i hurt your feelings.. i apologize.
remember all those ESPN videos in 2008 about how Ovechkin was "the future of hockey". o how the mighty have fallen.
Ovechkin is no better or worse than in 2008, but the media loves to create heroes of mythical proportions and then crush them with a Soviet Hammer and then slice them in two with a sickle. ( i dont even know if u can slice things with a sickle)
he is a myopic winger with incredible goal scoring skills and still one of the best players in the NHL... whether he eventually is the next Brett Hull or not.. only time will tell.
in the past what...6 years?
the Capitals greatest success occurred when the coach minimized Ovechkin's role with the team... then he retired to his family farm in middle-of-nowhere Ontario.
i'm not sure how many Ontario Farm Boys Ovechkin can continue to listen to...
On July 24 2014 23:56 Flaccid wrote: With regards to ROR/Pavelski/Couture:
Even strength performance and usage:
ROR P/60: 2.00 Corsi QoC: 1.439 Corsi QoT: 2.214 Off Zone Start %: 48.8 Off Zone Finish %: 53.9
Couture P/60: 2.46 Corsi QoC: 0.864 Corse QoT: 8.00 Off Zone Start %: 46.0 Off Zone Finish %: 48.1
Pavelski P/60: 2.32 Corsi QoC: -0.059 Corse QoT: 9.756 Off Zone Start %: 47.5 Off Zone Finish %: 52.3
Looking at this, ROR and Couture were used in similar roles, more as a strength vs. strength role and make the better comparable. Pavelski was used more to light up weaker opposition - the kind of stuff you can get away with when you are as strong a team as SJ.
All three are treated as responsible players, able to be relied upon for tougher zone starts and to move the puck forward. The Sharks players scored at a higher rate but also benefited from being part of a much stronger team (I still believe Colorado is not nearly as strong a team as their record last year suggested).
So I don't see how anyone can argue that ROR is grossly overpaid. Especially considering the economics of a short-term deal and a guy getting to the point of free-agency. When you're a defensively-reliable center who can move the play up ice against tougher competition, put up points, and who is big, you are going to get paid. Those guys are hard to come by and every team in the league would like one or two. Those zone start/finishes are the most interesting point - especially since he cleaned house like that against tough opposition. That stuff is kind of a big deal.
Personally, if ROR walked to my team and got paid $6M for a few seasons, I'd be dancing a jig.
If Colorado overperformed, that will only hurt O'Reilly's production in the future, when they're not overperforming. Pavelski and Couture are two of the best two-way centers in the league. They are both better than O'Reilly, and they have proven themselves many times too. But me trying to argue it would probably arrive at Pavelski and Couture being underpaid, which doesn't really help my point. My main point was that 6M is too much, but I also said that 6M at 2 years is reasonable. So, they didn't sign a bad contract. They just gave him more money per year than he deserved. They undercut him in length, and overpaid in money. There are worse contracts out there for sure. I think 5.5M over 5 years would have been fairly reasonable. In 2 years he might actually deserve 6M though.
On July 24 2014 10:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: it has to do with who owns the team. BCE Inc. and Rogers. massive media companies.
nothing like a nice powder-puff piece to enhance your future job prospects with BCE and/or Rogers and the 94385739874589875893745 media outlets they own.
if you think this bloomberg article is bad... Shi Davidi is a walking-talking Alex Anthopolous blow job.
as for the Dubas hiring...
if Dubas were merely added to the current Leaf exec team it probably would not mean a lot... and it would be much adieu about nothing.
however, the Leafs cleared out Nonis' support employees and replaced them with Dubas. this makes Dubas one of the most powerful aGMs ( relative to other aGMs ) in the NHL.
so, it is a pretty big move for the leafs.
for all of this stats guru talk though... Dubas biggest move as GM of the Soo was born of political opportunism not the application of newly defined stats.
also, the Soo's biggest 3 acquisitions during Dubas tenure were via "eye ball scouting".. the stats they use in the Soo did not exist for the teams they played for at the time the Greyhounds scouted them.
The only 2 bullets Shanahan has left in his revolver are aimed directly at Nonis and Carlyle.
Shanahan is starting to make his mark on the Leafs.
it'll be interesting to see if Dubas becomes the Leaf's "capologist"
funny the bloomberg article never got into any of this nitty-gritty...we got wide-eyed talk and far fetched parallels.
Now they are. They weren't before and still the media circus surrounding all things Toronto sports is hilarious to follow. It happened long before Ted stepped into the picture with taking over the Skydome in '05 and before Bell got their share on the MLSE so spare us more of your bullshit. Those stories would have been around regardless, but it's a nice cover to fall on because it's so darn easy.
spare me your bullshit.
sry man, the Blue Jays and Leafs never got this kind of softball coverage before.
btm line is, the main coverage for the Jays and Leafs is all guys PAID by the company that owns the team... so you get guys who think that kissing ass is the best way to the top... in the past this was not possible because Labatt's/Interbrew and Stavros weren't paying you.
The 3 amigos never would've ripped Gaston to shreds if Labatt's/Interbrew signed their cheques... and Labatt's never would've allowed Gaston to play the race card between 4 employees... it is all detailed in "Pantload: 25 Years of Prime Time Sports"
Harold Ballard and Stavros never controlled the media that ripped them to shreds.
Both Wilner and Zaun have been disciplined for being too critical.
Funny how the Toronto Star has become our last vestige of independent journalism.
Newman said it best... "control the (e) mail and you control ..information"
with the Jays and Leafs covered by employees of the team... you just don't get the same coverage you did when it was all 100% independent.
No media member will ever speak out too loudly about it because they want to keep their future job prospects open at BCE Inc and ROgers who own like 23874982742987874 TV,Radio, Newspaper, and media outlets in Canada. it would be a career limiting move.
Softball? Softball? Stop trying to kid yourself. You do not have short-term memory block. You know damn well what kind of coverage teams in Toronto get and how rampant it is in this city. Well before Rogers or Bell came into the picture. It's nothing more than a cop-out.
On July 24 2014 10:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: it has to do with who owns the team. BCE Inc. and Rogers. massive media companies.
nothing like a nice powder-puff piece to enhance your future job prospects with BCE and/or Rogers and the 94385739874589875893745 media outlets they own.
if you think this bloomberg article is bad... Shi Davidi is a walking-talking Alex Anthopolous blow job.
as for the Dubas hiring...
if Dubas were merely added to the current Leaf exec team it probably would not mean a lot... and it would be much adieu about nothing.
however, the Leafs cleared out Nonis' support employees and replaced them with Dubas. this makes Dubas one of the most powerful aGMs ( relative to other aGMs ) in the NHL.
so, it is a pretty big move for the leafs.
for all of this stats guru talk though... Dubas biggest move as GM of the Soo was born of political opportunism not the application of newly defined stats.
also, the Soo's biggest 3 acquisitions during Dubas tenure were via "eye ball scouting".. the stats they use in the Soo did not exist for the teams they played for at the time the Greyhounds scouted them.
The only 2 bullets Shanahan has left in his revolver are aimed directly at Nonis and Carlyle.
Shanahan is starting to make his mark on the Leafs.
it'll be interesting to see if Dubas becomes the Leaf's "capologist"
funny the bloomberg article never got into any of this nitty-gritty...we got wide-eyed talk and far fetched parallels.
Now they are. They weren't before and still the media circus surrounding all things Toronto sports is hilarious to follow. It happened long before Ted stepped into the picture with taking over the Skydome in '05 and before Bell got their share on the MLSE so spare us more of your bullshit. Those stories would have been around regardless, but it's a nice cover to fall on because it's so darn easy.
spare me your bullshit.
sry man, the Blue Jays and Leafs never got this kind of softball coverage before.
btm line is, the main coverage for the Jays and Leafs is all guys PAID by the company that owns the team... so you get guys who think that kissing ass is the best way to the top... in the past this was not possible because Labatt's/Interbrew and Stavros weren't paying you.
The 3 amigos never would've ripped Gaston to shreds if Labatt's/Interbrew signed their cheques... and Labatt's never would've allowed Gaston to play the race card between 4 employees... it is all detailed in "Pantload: 25 Years of Prime Time Sports"
Harold Ballard and Stavros never controlled the media that ripped them to shreds.
Both Wilner and Zaun have been disciplined for being too critical.
Funny how the Toronto Star has become our last vestige of independent journalism.
Newman said it best... "control the (e) mail and you control ..information"
with the Jays and Leafs covered by employees of the team... you just don't get the same coverage you did when it was all 100% independent.
No media member will ever speak out too loudly about it because they want to keep their future job prospects open at BCE Inc and ROgers who own like 23874982742987874 TV,Radio, Newspaper, and media outlets in Canada. it would be a career limiting move.
Softball? Softball? Stop trying to kid yourself. You do not have short-term memory block. You know damn well what kind of coverage teams in Toronto get and how rampant it is in this city. Well before Rogers or Bell came into the picture. It's nothing more than a cop-out.
Media ownership influences media content and coverage. end of story.
Leafs have been attempted to influence the media that covers them since before Harold Ballard... and the last public example occurred when Burke went after Cherry via his bosses at CBC... its well documented.
again ownership influences content...always has .. always will
that doesn't change the fact the media circus around here is one of the wildest in North America even if you have to resort to that. It's still a cop-out and acts as a blanket. Heck, you even mentioned how some of them got slapped on the wrist for calling out certain players yet Don Cherry is still Don Cherry and Greg Zaun has gone on record saying he doesn't regret anything he said and that's just CNIC and Sportsnet.
What you said about the media is a sweeping generalization and can apply to any news story we receive.
EPT
