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On February 17 2014 10:00 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 08:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On February 17 2014 06:44 one-one-one wrote:On February 17 2014 06:34 Darpa wrote:On February 17 2014 06:06 one-one-one wrote:
Ok.
Group stage is over. As expected the Swedish team came out first. They are still trying to get their team together properly as they only really managed to shine in the game versus the Czech. It is plausible though that they were chilling versus the Swiss and especially versus Lithuania.
I have to be honest and state that I'm a bit disappointed so far. But I would have been more disappointed if we had actually dropped points.
Austria - Slovenia next. That should be a very easy first game on the was to the finals. I don't think USA and Canada are good enough to stop us from taking the gold.
The USA and Canada are by far the favorites, both in terms of talent and as defending 1st and 2nd.. Sweden had the easiest group (meaning they didnt have one of the other top 5 teams, Canada, USA, Finland, Russia) so its not really a suprise that they finished first. Dont get me wrong, Sweden could win since they have a great lineup. They also have arguably the easiest route to the finals, but to say no other team can stop them is a little strange. Their team is aging, and missing some of the best players. If I had to make a guess. We'll see a Russia vs USA finals. Canadas team doesnt strike me as a championship team this year for some reason. I want you to take a close look at this table: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ice_hockey_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Men's_tournament#Current_standingsThe reason we got the easiest group is that we are ranked the #1 team in the world which you can see in the right most column. You make it sound like we somehow avoided the hard teams by pure luck which is not very informative. And by the same measure you can see that Canada and USA are ranked 5 and 6. So it is more likely that they have been performing a bit above their expectations if they get to the finals. You realize that every year they hold the world championship during the NHL playoffs?? Theres like only Rick Nash who goes to that tourney year after year on the current Canadian olympic roster because everyone else is busy battling for the cup lol. Pretty sure that Canada's B team could take the gold in that tournament... So every national team is not their best because the NHL playoffs is going on. But which teams have access to the most NHL players of the ones available? I mean maybe Sweden can reinforce with two or so but Canada and USA are pretty much 100% no?
Canada and the US have no pool of reasonably talented Players that aren't in the NHL though. The European clubs have a semblance of a team already made, essentially the foundation already set, and then receive a star from the NHL. Most European clubs also get like 2 weeks of practice time in with their club as well, as it is well after club playoffs and the season are over.
The American teams are made up of a bunch of guys fresh off the disappointment, there is no camp, there is no practrices, Tournament starts like 4 days after the last regular season games; NA teams at those tournaments get a ragtag group of guys that said yes. Its not a competitive environment, any NA player over the age of 22 usually doesn';t give a damn, wants to start training for the next season, not give up 3 weeks of time to play a tournament that none of their peers or fans will watch, or even look at the results in the Paper.
Anyway, the IIHF did it this way to grow the game in europe anyhow, purposely made the "World Championships" run when the NHL playoffs were already set to be played.
The World Championships are a second rate tournament that was initially proposed to be after the NHL playoffs, but it was decided by "consensus" (ie, everyone but NA) that they could grow the game much better if it was during the NHL playoffs. Its a political dog and pony show.
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how do the rankings work that russia doesn't get a bye to the qf's despite loseing only one game?
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they had 1 less point than finland (swiss also had 1 less point and missed out on a bye)
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Regulation wins get 3 points, OT/SO wins get 2, OT/So losses get 1 point and regulation losses gain you zero. The winners of each group advance to the quarters and the highest finishing second place team also goes to the quarters.
Russia finished with 6 points (1-1-1-0) Sweden went 3-0-0-0 (9 points), USA and Canada went 2-1-0-0(8 points, USA wins the tie breaker for better goal differential thus gets the better seed) and Finland went 2-0-1-0 for 7 points.
+ Show Spoiler [Tie break rules] +Following the completion of the preliminary round, all teams were ranked 1D through 12D. To determine this ranking, the following criteria were used in the order presented:[3]
higher position in the group
higher number of points
better goal difference
higher number of goals scored for
better 2013 IIHF World Ranking.
+ Show Spoiler [Full Tournament rankings] +
Rank Team Group Pos GP Pts GD GF IIHF Rank
1D Sweden C 1 3 9 +5 10 1
2D United States A 1 3 8 +11 15 6
3D Canada B 1 3 8 +9 11 5
4D Finland B 2 3 7 +8 15 2
5D Russia A 2 3 6 +3 8 3
6D Switzerland C 2 3 6 +1 2 7
7D Czech Republic C 3 3 3 −1 6 4
8D Slovenia A 3 3 3 −5 6 17
9D Austria B 3 3 3 −8 7 15
10D Slovakia A 4 3 1 −9 2 8
11D Latvia C 4 3 0 −5 5 11
12D Norway B 4 3 0 −9 3 9
Wikipedia page explaining how it all works
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On February 17 2014 08:02 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 06:59 Darpa wrote:On February 17 2014 06:44 one-one-one wrote:On February 17 2014 06:34 Darpa wrote:On February 17 2014 06:06 one-one-one wrote:
Ok.
Group stage is over. As expected the Swedish team came out first. They are still trying to get their team together properly as they only really managed to shine in the game versus the Czech. It is plausible though that they were chilling versus the Swiss and especially versus Lithuania.
I have to be honest and state that I'm a bit disappointed so far. But I would have been more disappointed if we had actually dropped points.
Austria - Slovenia next. That should be a very easy first game on the was to the finals. I don't think USA and Canada are good enough to stop us from taking the gold.
The USA and Canada are by far the favorites, both in terms of talent and as defending 1st and 2nd.. Sweden had the easiest group (meaning they didnt have one of the other top 5 teams, Canada, USA, Finland, Russia) so its not really a suprise that they finished first. Dont get me wrong, Sweden could win since they have a great lineup. They also have arguably the easiest route to the finals, but to say no other team can stop them is a little strange. Their team is aging, and missing some of the best players. If I had to make a guess. We'll see a Russia vs USA finals. Canadas team doesnt strike me as a championship team this year for some reason. I want you to take a close look at this table: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ice_hockey_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Men's_tournament#Current_standingsThe reason we got the easiest group is that we are ranked the #1 team in the world which you can see in the right most column. You make it sound like we somehow avoided the hard teams by pure luck which is not very informative. And by the same measure you can see that Canada and USA are ranked 5 and 6. So it is more likely that they have been performing a bit above their expectations if they get to the finals. I dont think you really follow international hockey man. I never said they avoided for whatever reason, but when you have the easiest group you will in fact be most likely to finish on the top. Those rankings from those charts are based almost entirely on the last 4 world championships, one olympics and IIHF Events. Of which none of the best players in the world compete in because of the NHL season (other than the olympics 25%). I mean it has the Czech's and Fins ahead of Canada and the USA. Which is pretty crazy to place from a talent standpoint. Very few if any of the top NA players actually play in those events. Those rankings mean literally NOTHING in terms of the actual skill level of top teams once you include NHL players. So saying Canada and USA are over preforming when they are the top picks by almost every analyst and have won 2/3 Olympics where all the best players are playing is whats uninformative. edit for reference: how IIHF determine olympic rankings 2013 IIHF World Championship 100% 1200 2012 IIHF World Championship 75% 900 2011 IIHF World Championship 50% 600 2010 IIHF World Championship 25% 300 2010 Winter Olympics 25% 300 2009 IIHF World Championship 0% 0 Nothing? I would say that the correlation between IIHF rank and Sochi tournament rank is pretty high. It is apparent if you look at the data. For instance - the #1 IIHF team finished in the #1 spot. Data talks. You are just biased.
?? I dont think you even read what I said. not going to bother anymore.
I thought trolls got banned on this forum, thats why i fell for it so hard ><
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If your best players don’t play in your national team… Then maybe your national team isn’t as good as its name suggests?
I mean.. The whole discussion is kinda funny. National Teams get ranked according to their national results… How else would you do it? Just look at individual players and just go „every NHL player >> Every other player“, that would be WAY to generalistic. While the NHL is clearly the best league, many other countries also have „decent“ leagues of their own… Or where do you think the foreign Talent for the NHL is found?
+small ice vs big ice "advantage" depending on where the games are played.
It’s like Football… Yeah, England, Spain and maybe Germany have the best leagues in the world. Yet the champions/european league again and again have upsets and only a few top teams out these « BIG » leagues are true „regulars“ in the semifinals and onwards. By the logic you guys use for icehockey it should be total and utter domination by English/Spanish teams, which just isn’t true aside from the ~2 top teams of each of these leagues, all the others are beatable by many "smaller league" topteams.
Btw: It's hardly anyones elses fault that you in the US/Canada like to have your Ice Hockey Playoffs during summer ^^.
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Get hyped! 30 minutes and it's on!
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On February 17 2014 20:51 Anlo wrote:
Get hyped! 30 minutes and it's on!
Womens slaughter-fest?
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29-1 shots in the 1st, yikes
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On February 17 2014 22:14 ii.blitzkrieg wrote:
29-1 shots in the 1st, yikes
We have a secret tactic. We will tire their arms by letting them shoot 5000 times and then we will win when they no longer have the strength to hold the stick.
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On February 17 2014 19:55 Velr wrote:
If your best players don’t play in your national team… Then maybe your national team isn’t as good as its name suggests?
I mean.. The whole discussion is kinda funny. National Teams get ranked according to their national results… How else would you do it? Just look at individual players and just go „every NHL player >> Every other player“, that would be WAY to generalistic. While the NHL is clearly the best league, many other countries also have „decent“ leagues of their own… Or where do you think the foreign Talent for the NHL is found?
+small ice vs big ice "advantage" depending on where the games are played.
It’s like Football… Yeah, England, Spain and maybe Germany have the best leagues in the world. Yet the champions/european league again and again have upsets and only a few top teams out these « BIG » leagues are true „regulars“ in the semifinals and onwards. By the logic you guys use for icehockey it should be total and utter domination by English/Spanish teams, which just isn’t true aside from the ~2 top teams of each of these leagues, all the others are beatable by many "smaller league" topteams.
Btw: It's hardly anyones elses fault that you in the US/Canada like to have your Ice Hockey Playoffs during summer ^^.
Pretty sure a best of 7 between HC Davos and Edmonton would be a stomping...
there is no champions league in hockey for a reason. The talent pool for the sport is not that huge compared to football and even the 2nd best league in the world (KHL) is miles behind the NHL.
And a good portion of the foreign talent in the NHL is cultivated by the CHL junior teams who can have 2 europeans on their team.
But its allright. One thing I like about the Olympic tourney is its volatility. Anything can happen. Switzerland can beat Canada and Russia could even miss the quarters at home ( wonder who will end in the goulag if that happens  ).
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On February 17 2014 13:10 Orcasgt24 wrote:Regulation wins get 3 points, OT/SO wins get 2, OT/So losses get 1 point and regulation losses gain you zero. The winners of each group advance to the quarters and the highest finishing second place team also goes to the quarters. Russia finished with 6 points (1-1-1-0) Sweden went 3-0-0-0 (9 points), USA and Canada went 2-1-0-0(8 points, USA wins the tie breaker for better goal differential thus gets the better seed) and Finland went 2-0-1-0 for 7 points. + Show Spoiler [Tie break rules] +Following the completion of the preliminary round, all teams were ranked 1D through 12D. To determine this ranking, the following criteria were used in the order presented:[3]
higher position in the group
higher number of points
better goal difference
higher number of goals scored for
better 2013 IIHF World Ranking.
Rank Team Group Pos GP Pts GD GF IIHF Rank
1D Sweden C 1 3 9 +5 10 1
2D United States A 1 3 8 +11 15 6
3D Canada B 1 3 8 +9 11 5
4D Finland B 2 3 7 +8 15 2
5D Russia A 2 3 6 +3 8 3
6D Switzerland C 2 3 6 +1 2 7
7D Czech Republic C 3 3 3 −1 6 4
8D Slovenia A 3 3 3 −5 6 17
9D Austria B 3 3 3 −8 7 15
10D Slovakia A 4 3 1 −9 2 8
11D Latvia C 4 3 0 −5 5 11
12D Norway B 4 3 0 −9 3 9
Thank you very much. Looks like russia will have to fight through all of scandinavia before making the gold medal game.
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On February 17 2014 19:55 Velr wrote:
If your best players don’t play in your national team… Then maybe your national team isn’t as good as its name suggests?
I mean.. The whole discussion is kinda funny. National Teams get ranked according to their national results… How else would you do it? Just look at individual players and just go „every NHL player >> Every other player“, that would be WAY to generalistic. While the NHL is clearly the best league, many other countries also have „decent“ leagues of their own… Or where do you think the foreign Talent for the NHL is found?
+small ice vs big ice "advantage" depending on where the games are played.
It’s like Football… Yeah, England, Spain and maybe Germany have the best leagues in the world. Yet the champions/european league again and again have upsets and only a few top teams out these « BIG » leagues are true „regulars“ in the semifinals and onwards. By the logic you guys use for icehockey it should be total and utter domination by English/Spanish teams, which just isn’t true aside from the ~2 top teams of each of these leagues, all the others are beatable by many "smaller league" topteams.
Btw: It's hardly anyones elses fault that you in the US/Canada like to have your Ice Hockey Playoffs during summer ^^.
Playoffs are in Spring, and its the IIHF who decided to have their tourny compete with playoffs to try and raise awareness and interest in Europe by allowing European teams to win more often (it was previously after playoffs). The best players play on the national team when they can, and yes if they are playing for the national team, it should be utter domination. Thats not to say their arent upsets. But more often than not a NA team would win the World championships if it didnt conflict with the NHL playoffs. You second statement is incorrect. Yes for Hockey NHL players are WAY better than their counterparts. Thats why they play in the NHL. If they werent WAY better than someone, that person would then be playing the NHL.
Its kind of funny that you mention where the foreign talent is found because, the majority of decent european (national) team players played in the NA minor teams. Whether it be the AHL or the major Junior teams (WHL, OHL, QMJHL). Most of the really good ones are drafted by the Junior teams before they reach the pros. Rarely do players grow up and play for those home leagues and get drafted directly from there. It does happen,but usually only a couple of picks a year. The rest of the teams are guys who couldnt cut it for the NHL, or old guys looking to return home after a career.
Your comparison to soccer is pretty much Irrelevant. for three reasons. 1. The talent pool in soccer is considerably larger across soccer countries. 2. The skill difference between NA leagues and European leagues is considerably larger than it is in champions league 3. There isnt a team in Europe who could beat a an NHL team on a regular basis. Could they take the occasional game of some of the worse NHL teams? for sure. But would they ever win or go deep in a "champions league" of hockey? not a chance. You are vastly underestimating the skill difference between the Swiss/Swedish elite leagues, the KHL, and the NHL.
edit. I suppose if you want to rank countries based on World Championship results in the last few years, then yes without the best players, some European countries would be as strong or stronger. But if you wanted to do an olympic ranking by comparison, it really shouldnt be close.
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The thing is the NHL playoffs have gone into the "summer" for 80 years. Its not the NHL being stubborn. In fact the RSL used to go into the summer as well at one point, but Russia changed because they wanted a better chance to win gold.
The IIHF world Championships are the equivalent to a SCBW world championships tournament that happened during OGN Teamleague Playoffs so all the Korean greats like Bisu, Jeadong, Flash, Stork, Savior etc would be in teamleague. DO you think Koreans would give a rats ass about the tournament when the US won?
Or even if Canada, Belarus, USA, Latvia, Iceland, Greenland, Ukrain, +10 other Soccer no name countries made a tournament right in the middle of the Champions League playoffs that gave you points toward your FIFA World Ranking. What would you think of such a tournament?
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On February 17 2014 08:49 one-one-one wrote: Funny that it takes a progamer to make the right conclusion. But to my defense, you set the tone yourself with your first post. I don't expect this to be a very serious thread, haha. Trolling or not I dislike the "we could send our B-team and still win the world cup" attitude. You did send your B-team and you didn't win.
heh but now you started a legit convo about the validity of the rankings boooo!
On February 17 2014 10:01 GolemMadness wrote:
The Czech team is pretty terrible. Maybe they can beat Slovakia and then get crushed by the US.
They're both really bad compared to the levels that both nations play at. Both old and top heavy, without many young players coming up atm
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The nets are "secured" to the ice by a tiny piece of plastic/rubber thats about the size of an index finger. Quick knocked the net off when he slid post to post to stop a wrap around that never came. He and every other goalie do this multiple times a game. Several times during this tourney the nets have come off from that and several other very minor impacts. NHL nets come off easy too but it takes a good impact to accomplish that.
Coincidentally, I don't think Stamkos breaks his leg if the NHL had these weak pegs on their nets lol.
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yeah i was kinda surprised that came off from kinda light contact. him intentionally doing it would only mean a penalty and it didnt look like anything intentional
regardless, the rule in international play is that if it is off at all, play should stop and no goal. idk why the nhl doesnt do that either.
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EPT
