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Oh toning... why won't you go away
Hypertrophy can be obtained many ways, see this quote I wrote up
There are generally 3 types of hypertrophy processes that can occur: fast twitch/fatigue, metabolic accumulation/localized hypoxia, and damage induced satellite cell proliferation. Induced damage is maximized in that 6-12ish range because of the combination of volume and intensity. Metabolic is higher reps, and fast twitch is lower reps.
Lower reps heavier weight tend to focus on fast twitch and induced damage, while higher reps tend to focus on metabolic accumulation + induced damage. Rep ranges with slow eccentric and conconcentric (e.g. like Ferriss 2x7 8s/8s or whatever are primarily hypoxic/metabolic due to sustained contraction, and damage induced due to sustained eccentric phase)
For beginners who don't have adaptations, pretty much anything works. As they say, "the best program is the program you're not doing."
That said, for beginners typically work in the 5-8 rep range is better such as programs with SS and SL5x5.
Why? Because the strength adaptations will be helpful later in overloading the muscles when you move to higher repetitions ranges because you haven't adapted to those.
Thus, for someone seeking purely hypertrophy a strength oriented beginner program like SS/SL5x5 is good. Then a full body type intermediate strength program will work fairly well. Then diversify into some split routines with higher repetitions, and alternate cycles with higher and lower repetitions will work very well. Other methods such as different tempo, supersets, whatever else can be used after.
The reason why you eventually go into split routines is that you need more and more progressive overloading of the musculature as you get more advanced. Splits allow that while allowing sufficient recovery from the higher amount of volume. However, splits are not good for beginner and intermediates because what is "optimal" is to get the most bang for your buck exercises like squat/dl/bench/press/dips/pullups/etc. Thus, full body tends to be better for intermediates from both a pure strength, strength and hypertrophy, and hypertrophy perspective.
The place where most people fail is they try to jump right into split routines like they are advanced bodybuilders, and their progress lags behind those who utilize typical novice programs like SS/SL5x5.
Generally speaking, though, better to do full body routine then add in some isos if you want max muscle
Free weights tend to be better still.....
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
My community center gym has 1 power rack and no bench rack so all the bros use the power rack to bench...
Plus there is only 1 barbell in the entire gym so I feel pretty bad for hogging it to do cleans which takes a decent amount of time.
I want to buy a home gym set but I have no spare cash atm 
On February 13 2012 07:26 ffadicted wrote:
Just broke my finger and cant make a fist or hold weight in my hands...... tha fuck do I do for 2+ weeks
Do front squats with your arms crossed
I'm sure you can find some machines to use
Leg press could work
Went snowboarding for the first time yesterday :D
My ass is so sore from all the wipe-outs. Actually, pretty much everything is sore lol
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Probably not a smart move to bite on a discussion about asthetics, but whenever discussions about bodybuilders emerge, I ask myself how many people would really want to look like a bodybuilder. Or to paraphrase, like a real bodybuilder. I guess the term "Fitness Model" sounds extremely gay, but at least I can easily understand why you would want to look like that.
Personally, I want to look like an athlete, basically a look which comes naturally when you train hard. Doesn't matter if you sprint, throw things (or people) around or lift weights, plus having a decent diet. I could care less if my quad is 70cm or 72cm, it is comparably huge either way. And I am not giving up casual running for a 5kg higher squat (at least for now  ). And if I had to calculate a shoulder-to-waist or biceps-to-forearm ratio or something similar, I would want to kill myself. Not to keen on having visible veins all over my body either (though I will never have that problem )
And no offense to anyone, but hearing the term "toning" makes me want to kill puppies.
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On February 13 2012 10:36 Malinor wrote:Probably not a smart move to bite on a discussion about asthetics, but whenever discussions about bodybuilders emerge, I ask myself how many people would really want to look like a bodybuilder. Or to paraphrase, like a real bodybuilder. I guess the term "Fitness Model" sounds extremely gay, but at least I can easily understand why you would want to look like that. Personally, I want to look like an athlete, basically a look which comes naturally when you train hard. Doesn't matter if you sprint, throw things (or people) around or lift weights, plus having a decent diet. I could care less if my quad is 70cm or 72cm, it is comparably huge either way. And I am not giving up casual running for a 5kg higher squat (at least for now ). And if I had to calculate a shoulder-to-waist or biceps-to-forearm ratio or something similar, I would want to kill myself. Not to keen on having visible veins all over my body either (though I will never have that problem ) And no offense to anyone, but hearing the term "toning" makes me want to kill puppies.
Calm down bro i'm trying to get swoll here.
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On February 13 2012 10:45 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 10:36 Malinor wrote:Probably not a smart move to bite on a discussion about asthetics, but whenever discussions about bodybuilders emerge, I ask myself how many people would really want to look like a bodybuilder. Or to paraphrase, like a real bodybuilder. I guess the term "Fitness Model" sounds extremely gay, but at least I can easily understand why you would want to look like that. Personally, I want to look like an athlete, basically a look which comes naturally when you train hard. Doesn't matter if you sprint, throw things (or people) around or lift weights, plus having a decent diet. I could care less if my quad is 70cm or 72cm, it is comparably huge either way. And I am not giving up casual running for a 5kg higher squat (at least for now ). And if I had to calculate a shoulder-to-waist or biceps-to-forearm ratio or something similar, I would want to kill myself. Not to keen on having visible veins all over my body either (though I will never have that problem ) And no offense to anyone, but hearing the term "toning" makes me want to kill puppies. Calm down bro i'm trying to get swoll here.
Then I would advice you to cut out Rugby practice and alcohol, to improve your recovery process
Good luck with the big chest btw 
edit: I am smiley-heavy today.
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Don't see why machines would be better than free weights under most circumstances, but they can certainly be useful and are not worthless. The best chests during Arnold's time are still better than the Mr. Olympia's of today though, and they were built almost exclusively by bench press, dips and dumbbell flyes.
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On February 13 2012 07:26 ffadicted wrote:
Just broke my finger and cant make a fist or hold weight in my hands...... tha fuck do I do for 2+ weeks
one-armed chin ups obviously
On February 13 2012 09:15 AoN.DimSum wrote:
What machines are better for toning?
lol dimsum you troll
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So after getting huge quads from squatting and cutting down to 6% bodyfat i'll just have one big ass ugly bulk of muscle unless i do some slow leg extensions? Thanks for clearing that up mate.
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So still linear progression in deadlift, lifted 90kg this morning, easy, but the split routine bit in eshlows post caused me some doubt. Should I be doing starting strength instead of my split/reverse pyramid thing I'm doing right now? I really don't want to, mostly because I really like the reverse pyramid way of training. I don't have to know how much I can lift for three sets, just the one, and then I can lower weight by 10% for each set, and it's easy to know when to add weight. I really really like this routine, but I'm wondering how much gain I'm missing out on by going straight into split rather than SS.
Whaddaya think?
On February 13 2012 10:36 Malinor wrote:Probably not a smart move to bite on a discussion about asthetics, but whenever discussions about bodybuilders emerge, I ask myself how many people would really want to look like a bodybuilder. Or to paraphrase, like a real bodybuilder. I guess the term "Fitness Model" sounds extremely gay, but at least I can easily understand why you would want to look like that. Personally, I want to look like an athlete, basically a look which comes naturally when you train hard. Doesn't matter if you sprint, throw things (or people) around or lift weights, plus having a decent diet. I could care less if my quad is 70cm or 72cm, it is comparably huge either way. And I am not giving up casual running for a 5kg higher squat (at least for now ). And if I had to calculate a shoulder-to-waist or biceps-to-forearm ratio or something similar, I would want to kill myself. Not to keen on having visible veins all over my body either (though I will never have that problem ) And no offense to anyone, but hearing the term "toning" makes me want to kill puppies.
Personally I just want to have clearly visible abs, single digit bodyfat where every single muscle is showing is not my thing. I also care more about strength than looks, mostly because it's alot more fun to train than to diet.
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If you like the way you are training and it gives you results, I think there is no reason to stop. There is nothing magical about 3x5reps in SS, although it definitely works quite well. But the lifts you are performing are more important than the rep-ranges you use. As long as you do Deadlifts, Squats and Bench Press, you are doing 90% right anyway.
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Reverse pyramids are ok.... I prefer straight across sets for beginners because I think it helps develop a sense of volume better. But they're fine overall.
Splits, as long as you're getting muscle groups from all over the body at least 2-3x a week are ok to start... Preferably 3... but at least 2. Most of your lifts should be compounds.
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So I'm planning to donate blood today. I haven't done so since high school, but one of the organizations I'm in here at school is "sponsoring" this blood drive, so I feel it's only right of me to do so.
I've already made a plan to eat earlier in the day (my normal first meal is at the time I would have been donating) and I'm moving my workout to immediately before the donation as well. I don't have rugby practice tonight, so I'll have at least one good nights sleep before I need to deal with that again. After the donation, there's a basketball game, and the same organization is providing "tailgate foods" so I shouldn't have trouble getting in my calories for the day, as I'll have three meals to eat what I usually put away in two =x.
Anything else I should do to maximize my recovery from this? Stay hydrated, get the food in, sleep well tonight, stay away from caffeine? I know from past experience that I actually have a very high red blood cell count, so it should just be am atter of getting fluids in to replace the volume, yeah?
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you know, I recently gave blood as well, and tbh I didn't notice any of the common "side effects" like vertigo or light-headedness. drink plenty, eat something before and after and you should be alright.
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From what I read many pro bodybuilders train with machines a lot because they've got so many steroids in their systems that they only need to stimulate the muscles a bit for them to still grow as much and it's safer with injuries. Imo for normal people 95% of machines have an equal or better equivalent with free weights or bodyweight. I always die a bit inside when I see instructors at the gym explain a hip abductor machine to a new guy when he doesn't even know what squats and deadlifts are, let alone that he can do them properly.
And yeah Malinor I agree about aesthetics. Especially todays bodybuilders with their huge guts...
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I'm trying to figure out LG.
Training days: 40p, 20 c, 40 f
rest: 35 p, 40 c, 25 f
I set the IF calculator to Weightloss which puts me at 2000 Rest to 2500 Training calories. Is this a correctly setup system for my statistics?
24 y male, 81 kg, SS 3 times a week, lightly active. 20%+ body fat I guess.
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On February 13 2012 23:10 Zafrumi wrote:
you know, I recently gave blood as well, and tbh I didn't notice any of the common "side effects" like vertigo or light-headedness. drink plenty, eat something before and after and you should be alright.
I suppose I might be needlessly worrying myself about this. The last time I gave blood, as I said was in highschool, and at that time I was 6'4, 135 lbs (193cm 60kg) and was a distance runner with very low resting heart rate and blood pressure even for my size. It would affect me for days at a time, and I think we can all understand why. Since then I've given myself MUCH better eating habits, sleeping habits, and I've gained almost 30kg (looking to break 190 lbs by a month from now)
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On February 13 2012 23:24 Advocado wrote:
I'm trying to figure out LG.
Training days: 40p, 20 c, 40 f
rest: 35 p, 40 c, 25 f
I set the IF calculator to Weightloss which puts me at 2000 Rest to 2500 Training calories. Is this a correctly setup system for my statistics?
24 y male, 81 kg, SS 3 times a week, lightly active. 20%+ body fat I guess.
That seems really low. I would assume moderately active when doing SS and entering your stats in a BMR calculator puts you at about 2800 for maintenance (depends on your height). Then just take +20% for training days (i.e. ~3350kcal) and -20% for rest days (i.e. ~2250kcal). Just weigh yourself every week to see if you need to adjust up or down, that's the best way to find out what works for you.
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A few days after an horrid workout, I managed to do 80x5x5 squat (failed 80 at the 3rd set last time) :D
Feeling better. Now, I only need to find a decent gym.
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No need to worry about blood donation.
Just eat your meat for more iron, and drink a lot of water.
You might notice some decrease in abilities, but as long as you're not anemic or anything you should be ok
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Checked my weight for the first time since Tuesday and am 5 pounds heavier. -___-. Not surprising since in the last little while I went on a bit of an eating binge.
- Went to a local pub where the tankard was, got a lumberjack burger. Which is basically a 1lb burger w/ onion rings bacon and cheese on it (and whatever other condiments you wanted) with curly fries. Homemade bun. That burger was delicious. To put in perspective guy at other table ate 1/4 of it. And guy with me weighing 70 pounds more than me ate 3/4. I ate whole dish in 20 minutes right before a game.
-Went to new poutine place, (how do you like your poutine) Got large bacon cheese burger. Basically homemade fries smothered in hamburger real applewood bacon 3 cheeses, cheese sauce. So fucking filling and greasy.
-Went out for early valentines day, had starter caesar salad, hot bread, over half an order of large nachos, biggest steak on the menu with baked potatoe. (20oz Tbone) and a beer.
So basically my body right now is like fuck you and now im 5 pounds heavier. Once I get back into my normal routine I hope it stabalizes back to where it was and I can slowly gain weight. Not all at once fuck dont wanna be a fatty.
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EPT
