TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2012 - Page 331

On September 21 2012 12:27 eshlow wrote:
lollerskates at the "vegan/vege" discussion in the general forum.

On September 21 2012 14:18 ieatkids5 wrote:

oh god. if anyone wants to rage HARD for any reason, all you have to do is read through that thread. it's worse than the religious/political/guncontrol threads.

On September 21 2012 17:40 Mattes wrote:
Haven't posted since my first post in here.

Training worked out pretty well, startet SS and made progress.
Already lost some kgs, gained strength - everything went better than expected.

Well, until wednesday i suffered a luxating patella. (after my normal workout in a knee movement completely unrelated to my training)
Suffice to say it hurt like hell, kneecap went into normal position shortly after, but well, it seems i injured my knee quite a bit.

Waiting for my MRI appointment next week.


Well fuck.

On September 21 2012 16:02 phyre112 wrote:


Why do y'all have to post about these things? I could have gone on with my life happily ignoring the vegan thread until it got closed by a mod in five or ten pages for turning into a flame war, but I just.... I can't read it and not hate it, I can't.

On September 21 2012 22:34 YoucriedWolf wrote:
From a tlhf and philosofical standpoint I'm more embarassed by the meat eaters rationale (or lack thereof). I don't understand whats so offending to you, if I'm interpreting your sentiments correctly and you think that the vegan side appear stupid. I think both sides (of the people who are voicing their opinions in the thread) appear stupid.

On September 21 2012 22:47 JingleHell wrote:


If everyone in an argument is insane, who's ahead? The guy doing the right thing for the wrong reason, or the guy doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason?

That's ignoring the two most valid reasons for vege/vegan diets, ethics and individual health concerns. (Note, I'm not saying 'I read on Facebook that being a Vegan is good for me' health concerns, I'm talking if someone has a medical condition that precludes good healthy meat and animal fat).

Now regarding ethics, I think most of the arguments people make there are silly, but it's an opinion thing, and they're welcome to have their opinion, no matter how insane I think it is.

That's without having suffered through the thread's current incarnation. I know how they go.

On September 21 2012 23:01 KOVU wrote:

The argument of vegan/nonvegan is as pointless as the argument of being religious/not religious. There is no way a non-vegan can convince a vegan to change their ways and the other way around.

Now regarding ethics, I think most of the arguments people make there are silly, but it's an opinion thing, and they're welcome to have their opinion, no matter how insane I think it is.

On September 21 2012 22:47 JingleHell wrote:


If everyone in an argument is insane, who's ahead? The guy doing the right thing for the wrong reason, or the guy doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason?

That's ignoring the two most valid reasons for vege/vegan diets, ethics and individual health concerns. (Note, I'm not saying 'I read on Facebook that being a Vegan is good for me' health concerns, I'm talking if someone has a medical condition that precludes good healthy meat and animal fat).

Now regarding ethics, I think most of the arguments people make there are silly, but it's an opinion thing, and they're welcome to have their opinion, no matter how insane I think it is.

That's without having suffered through the thread's current incarnation. I know how they go.

On September 21 2012 23:18 YoucriedWolf wrote:


I think that's jumping ahead in conclusions. A bad argument with faulty reasoning will give me a headache even if the person is "right" without knowing it. Besides I'm not convinced that meat eating is "right" even if it inevitably will be, because how could religiously excluding things from your diet be right (from an entierly dietary viewpoint) ever be right if you know a 100% what your doing. We know meat is not doing more harm than good so the best way for someone with the right knowledge would obviously be to adjust their meat consumption to the optimal amount and not exclude it as an axiom. BUT you could also use the "any diet is better than no diet" argument as veg's are more often forced to look in to nutritional facts and educate themselfs.

I feel like the veg strongcards are the factual aspects that can actually be mesured and most people would agree are good for us i.e. conservation of energy and environment (granted that these are only sound in theory and become super flimsy when applied to the very complicated real world, easy example the world economy would colapse if we banned animal consumption). As you say the ethical arguments are tiresome to read and dont amount to anything, but surprisingly I see these more (only on internet) from meat eaters than vegs.

Not preaching, I eat meat.

On September 22 2012 00:06 GoTuNk! wrote:


I think the general concesus here is that the moral/enviromental vegan argument could be valid, but there is just no solid evidence at the moment for them. And that some respect the religious decision, I don't.

My opinion is that there are tons of shit wrong with this world, and banning a food group is not gonna solve them. I mean, if we are gonna start forbiddin stuff for not being efficient, we would start with booze, cigars. Good luck with that, now go with meat. Anyone with even a bit of logic knows the drawbacks will be ten times greater than the benefits. For that thing I also think the conservation of energy and enviromental protection is hoghwash, there is tons of "useless" crap being produced all over the war (excess clothes, furnitures, shitty plastic figures etc). Closing them is obv out of question, but for argument's sake would be much more coherent than forbidding meat,

That said, what bothers us here is people saying not eating meat is healthy and/or that we evolved to not eat meat, cause both arguments are a pile of horseshit. I also personally dislike vegans who poison themselves with soy and try to poison others with it, telling them its healthy.

I've read too much chaos and pains, cause I'm starting to despise vegans lol.

On September 22 2012 01:23 YoucriedWolf wrote:


I feel like its unnecessary to diminish the vegan points to an world wide ban on animal consumption because not a lot of vegans are actually activly arguing that and those who do are simply not resonable.
What could be done though is to remove all the subventions that developed contries provide for the market. Because of the high energy consumption meat is ridiculously expensive we just don't ever see the cost in that because it's subsidized on sooo many levels, we pay for it in taxes.
This, unlike the other industries of clothes, furnitures etc which are generally dictated by the market.
Energy conservation is just as simple as the law of energy efficency, every time you feed something ~90% of the energy will dissipate through movement, heat release etc.

Could you link me something about the ill of soy? I have never been able to find anything I deem conclusive data. Although I admit I haven't made this a life quest of mine. Wikipedia speaks well of it.

On September 22 2012 01:23 YoucriedWolf wrote:


I feel like its unnecessary to diminish the vegan points to an world wide ban on animal consumption because not a lot of vegans are actually activly arguing that and those who do are simply not resonable.
What could be done though is to remove all the subventions that developed contries provide for the market. Because of the high energy consumption meat is ridiculously expensive we just don't ever see the cost in that because it's subsidized on sooo many levels, we pay for it in taxes.
This, unlike the other industries of clothes, furnitures etc which are generally dictated by the market.
Energy conservation is just as simple as the law of energy efficency, every time you feed something ~90% of the energy will dissipate through movement, heat release etc.

Could you link me something about the ill of soy? I have never been able to find anything I deem conclusive data. Although I admit I haven't made this a life quest of mine. Wikipedia speaks well of it.

On September 22 2012 01:30 KOVU wrote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413102 - "Consumption of fluid skim milk promotes greater muscle protein accretion after resistance exercise than does consumption of an isonitrogenous and isoenergetic soy-protein beverage."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684208 - "Consumption of fat-free fluid milk after resistance exercise promotes greater lean mass accretion than does consumption of soy or carbohydrate in young, novice, male weightlifters."

Neither of these studies show that soy is bad for your health, they only show how milk is better for building muscle than soy.

Also how do you guys feel about running after squatting/other heavy weightlifting? I absolutely love running so I run every now and then, usually 3-4 times a week. Today I did sprints after a heavy squatting session and it felt really good. I know it is most likely holding back some progress in the squat, but I just love running so bad.