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TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2012 - Page 294

Forum Index > Sports
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zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15355 Posts
August 03 2012 07:44 GMT
#5861
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
August 03 2012 08:10 GMT
#5862
Ah, I didn't realize you were still 25kg below your max. I can't tell from the video, but are your shoes good for squatting? Padded soles can cause problems like you're experiencing.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
August 03 2012 08:43 GMT
#5863
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.


This is imho pretty classic. People go above weights they actually can handle with proper form and then when it gets really heavy they get punished for it. (I've done the same). What you're doing now I think is very smart!

I thought your squats looked good though, but what I could see with the limited information (would need a front and a back vid aswell) is that you're not pressing your knees out enough and not placing the stress on the feet on the outer parts of the foot to get the entire kenetic chain working. One reason could be your shoes, they look to have quite the small sole which I think could hurt (again I'm not sure since the vid is not entirely revealing, so sorry if I'm wrong here ).
And beside what the other poster said, a way to keep everything really tight is to take really deep breaths and take advantage of the valsalva manuvuer (spelling..). Personally I think it's hard to take those deep breaths when it's really heavy, but rushing in to the squat just to get it over with is bad, take the time to get a good breath in! This will help keeping everyhing tight which ultimatly helps shitton with form.
Mada Mada Dane
YoucriedWolf
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
August 03 2012 09:00 GMT
#5864
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.


If it really isnt exhausting your legs it must be a balance/stabilizing issue. Camera isnt high enough to show how you rack the weight but you probably couldnt tell from looking at it anyway and if that were the case you should be able to feel it.
There really wasnt any obvious mistakes from looking at it it might be more helpful if you describe how it feels whenyoure doing it. Could also try a slightly wider stance with toes pointing slightly more outward, should help you go lower.
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
August 03 2012 10:20 GMT
#5865
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

Honestly, your technique on 90kg is as good as it gets. You go below parallel, your back stays upright, nothing wrong imo. I disagree with the idea of worrying too much about your technique getting worse as the weights get heavier, that's what happens in all exercises, and staying on a weight below max to try to improve your technique is pointless when the reason for bad technique is insufficient strength. That strategy works when you don't know how to do the technique, but not when your muscles are the limiting factor.

If your technique on 112.5kg is bad enough to result in injuries, then start on 90kg again and work your way back up to 112.5kg with normal SS progression (perhaps increasing the weights by 5kg rather than 2.5kg at the start). However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

For example, look at the videos by GoTunk, funkie and sJarl on their max:





Obviously this is 1RM, but the point is that technique always progressively deteriorates with squats, and the trick is just to exercise at a level where you won't injure yourself.
Moderator
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15355 Posts
August 03 2012 10:42 GMT
#5866
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

That's the thing though that's what didn't happen really before. Even when I went up to 115 my form always started to break in at 90, and I just powered through with terrible form. I must be doing something wrong.

TBH I expected the video to show this much more clearly. I was a bit surprised myself since the 90kg reps don't look nearly as bad as they feel like.

I'll put more effort into getting the weight on the outside of my feet, that's something I haven't consciously worked on so far. Other than that I am just really at a loss what to improve on specifically.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
August 03 2012 10:45 GMT
#5867
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

Honestly, your technique on 90kg is as good as it gets. You go below parallel, your back stays upright, nothing wrong imo. I disagree with the idea of worrying too much about your technique getting worse as the weights get heavier, that's what happens in all exercises, and staying on a weight below max to try to improve your technique is pointless when the reason for bad technique is insufficient strength. That strategy works when you don't know how to do the technique, but not when your muscles are the limiting factor.


I'm two-faced on this I think. Sure you need enough stress to get adaption going, but if you dont involve all muscles that will help with the lift, you're going to gain unbalanced increase in strength which will just fuel the "bad form" higher intensity reps since you will be stronger in some parts of the movement than others. This happens naturally though, but if you excercise the correct form and force yourself to do that on every small increment instead of "cheating" with muscles that you're stronger with you will gain overall greater strength and later on you could move heavier weights (thinking longterm) and avoid greater risk of injury.

My copper though...
Mada Mada Dane
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-03 10:50:37
August 03 2012 10:48 GMT
#5868
On August 03 2012 19:42 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

That's the thing though that's what didn't happen really before. Even when I went up to 115 my form always started to break in at 90, and I just powered through with terrible form. I must be doing something wrong.

TBH I expected the video to show this much more clearly. I was a bit surprised myself since the 90kg reps don't look nearly as bad as they feel like.

I'll put more effort into getting the weight on the outside of my feet, that's something I haven't consciously worked on so far. Other than that I am just really at a loss what to improve on specifically.


The easiest way to see where you need work would be to watch a set/rep where you fail on high weight. It'll show where the failure is, and with proper assistance work that can be repaired (i.e the strength inbalance).
Mada Mada Dane
KTF_CloaK
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1338 Posts
August 03 2012 10:56 GMT
#5869
On July 31 2012 21:16 Jupiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 20:26 KTF_CloaK wrote:
Pictures:
http://imgur.com/sdCPn http://imgur.com/mS9W6
Hi, I've been having trouble deciding if I should cut further or begin bulking up. I have lost around 25 pounds to get where I am today and frankly I'm a bit paranoid about bulking and gaining weight (and muscle ofcourse) but I do want that lean toned body, with strength gains ofcourse. Here are my stats:
71 kg (156 lbs)
182 cm (6')
17 years old
I am planning to do Starting Strength for my bulk, three times a week, eating 3000-4000 cals a day. So, should I cut a bit more and then bulk, or start bulking up now? And how many calories should I consume? The ultimate goal for me is a ripped body and I hope I can accomplish that in a year or so. The plan is now to maybe bulk for 6 months depending on progress (n00bgains haha) and then a cut of 6 months.
Thanks in advance guys!


Without a doubt bulk.

Imo you could afford to bulk for a lot longer than 6 months.

dont be paranoid about putting weight on! lift heavy and put that muscle on!

good luck


Thanks for the reply man! yeah im really paranoid gotta work on that... it's just i was really fat when i started training and dieting around a year ago. Lost 15 kg (33 lbs) and felt great but a little weak as you might say. Im scared with my current bulk ill gain a lot of fat next to muscle and with a cut it could take a really long time. but im keeping my fat to a minimum and if im eating fatty food i am making sure they are healthy fats like olive oil and potato chips (just kidding ;P)

also, you dont think 6 months is long enough? thanks again for reply!
KT Rolster for the win!! Lee-Young-Ho hwaiting!!
KTF_CloaK
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1338 Posts
August 03 2012 10:59 GMT
#5870
On August 01 2012 03:41 Entropic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 20:26 KTF_CloaK wrote:
Pictures:
http://imgur.com/sdCPn http://imgur.com/mS9W6
Hi, I've been having trouble deciding if I should cut further or begin bulking up. I have lost around 25 pounds to get where I am today and frankly I'm a bit paranoid about bulking and gaining weight (and muscle ofcourse) but I do want that lean toned body, with strength gains ofcourse. Here are my stats:
71 kg (156 lbs)
182 cm (6')
17 years old
I am planning to do Starting Strength for my bulk, three times a week, eating 3000-4000 cals a day. So, should I cut a bit more and then bulk, or start bulking up now? And how many calories should I consume? The ultimate goal for me is a ripped body and I hope I can accomplish that in a year or so. The plan is now to maybe bulk for 6 months depending on progress (n00bgains haha) and then a cut of 6 months.
Thanks in advance guys!


Buuuuulk, you are one skinny bastard. Just at least try to eat clean and get your protein in. Remember to hit the gym hard! GLHF and get dem gainz. Really like to see noobgains.

As for my own progress:

Mid March: 236lbs (107kg)
Now: 213lbs (96.6kg)

My original plan was to hit 200lbs by September but in May I went on a 3 week vacation overseas, I think the best I could do now is 205lbs by then. Oh well, my long term goal is to hit 175lbs by Mid March 2013 (to have lost a total of 60lbs in one year). From then I would do a clean bulk through next summer, and then do a normal bulk in the winter 2013 (stay at that lower bf% for the summer, not that I go out of the house except to hit the gym and school lol).

Age: 22
Height: 5'6 (167.5cm, as part of manlet-status I have to add the .5 here hehehehe)
LBM: 151lbs (68.5kg) (I've lost about 2 pounds of muscle so far, I didn't lift at all during the first 2 months of my diet, but lifting regularly and good daily protein intake has preserved my LBM since June while losing about 1-2lbs a week. Mostly though I lift because its fun)

Lifting 4 times a week, doing a 5/3/1 with assistance work. Taking Oly lifting classes at the university to properly learn them next month.

My strength is improving and getting close to my old lifts:

Current 5x3 (5reps 3sets) lifts:
Bench: 195lbs (88kg)
Squat: 295lbs (134kg)
Deadlift: 275lbs (125kg)

Goal 5x3 lifts (lifts I used to do 2 years ago before getting fat) (by Janruary 2013):
Bench: 225lbs (102kg)
Squat: 315lbs (143kg)
Deadlift: 315lbs (143kg)

I hope to hit 185lbs by Janruary, slow my diet down and hit 175lbs by my next birthday (March 27 2013). I would be at 14% bodyfat then. On a 700-1000 daily caloric deficit.

I've recently added Front Squats (to help with Oly lifting) and lunges (because I felt like it) and I found out my glutes are really weak in relation to my quads. My glutes are totally dead right now.

In progress: Overhead/Push Press, Clean & Jerk, Snatch (Will report on these after August).

Edit: Adding kg-equivalents


thanks for reply man! definitely going to put progress pictures here in about 3 months or so haha :D
KT Rolster for the win!! Lee-Young-Ho hwaiting!!
KTF_CloaK
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1338 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-03 11:06:02
August 03 2012 11:00 GMT
#5871
On August 01 2012 04:35 Catch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 20:26 KTF_CloaK wrote:
Pictures:
http://imgur.com/sdCPn http://imgur.com/mS9W6
Hi, I've been having trouble deciding if I should cut further or begin bulking up. I have lost around 25 pounds to get where I am today and frankly I'm a bit paranoid about bulking and gaining weight (and muscle ofcourse) but I do want that lean toned body, with strength gains ofcourse. Here are my stats:
71 kg (156 lbs)
182 cm (6')
17 years old
I am planning to do Starting Strength for my bulk, three times a week, eating 3000-4000 cals a day. So, should I cut a bit more and then bulk, or start bulking up now? And how many calories should I consume? The ultimate goal for me is a ripped body and I hope I can accomplish that in a year or so. The plan is now to maybe bulk for 6 months depending on progress (n00bgains haha) and then a cut of 6 months.
Thanks in advance guys!


Definitely a bulk. I don't know what your maintenance calories are, but find those out.

Then I would recommend eating a large surplus on training days (+40% or so from maintenance) with a small deficit (around -10% from maintenance) on rest days.

Doing SS myself, I was getting in 3000-4000+ calories a day, with most of that coming from a gallon of milk a day. I got strong as hell, but I also got fat. if you aren't training that day, then there is no reason to take in so many calories in my opinion. if you find yourself stalling, then up the rest day calories. Simple as that.

Just my recommendation.


thanks for your reply very interesting... so I can just down my calories a bit on non workout days? seems pretty logical so I dont gain too much fat but still 150 grams preotein right? But dont i need those calories on rest days for muscle recovery?
KT Rolster for the win!! Lee-Young-Ho hwaiting!!
KTF_CloaK
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1338 Posts
August 03 2012 11:01 GMT
#5872
uh sorry guys does anybody know how I can quote multiple people in 1 post?
KT Rolster for the win!! Lee-Young-Ho hwaiting!!
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-03 11:04:47
August 03 2012 11:04 GMT
#5873
On August 03 2012 19:42 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

That's the thing though that's what didn't happen really before. Even when I went up to 115 my form always started to break in at 90, and I just powered through with terrible form. I must be doing something wrong.

TBH I expected the video to show this much more clearly. I was a bit surprised myself since the 90kg reps don't look nearly as bad as they feel like.

I'll put more effort into getting the weight on the outside of my feet, that's something I haven't consciously worked on so far. Other than that I am just really at a loss what to improve on specifically.

Well, as you can see from the video, your form is nearly perfect on 90kg so clearly it did work on some level. I mean, if your form is this good on 90, I doubt it's horrible at 95. It probably only starts getting bad at arount 100kg. I still think that, unless your form is injury-bad, you should continue to power through the sets. Everyone has a slight lean forward on their maximum weight, especially on the last reps of a set, but as long as you're not doing squat mornings it's sort of ok.

If your main issue is falling forward, then you should work on keeping your core tight. The easiest way to improve this is by taking a deep breath (similar to what you do on bench) before each rep and pushing your chest out. The breath keeps everything a bit tighter at the top. Also, tighten your core muscles just before each rep. I started doing that recently and it makes a huge difference. I made a post about that a while ago which I'll quote here in case you missed it:

+ Show Spoiler [Tighten core] +
On July 29 2012 05:22 Daigomi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2012 04:59 FFGenerations wrote:
On July 28 2012 06:39 Daigomi wrote:
Can I just say, if you don't know how to actively tighten your core, learn how to do it and then do it in between every rep of your squats. Seriously, everyone always says tighten your core, but I never figured out how to do it until the physio explained it to me. Today's squats (137.5kg 3x5) were the squats with the best technique I've had in months and it felt great. It was fucking hard, but I never felt like I'd fall forward, the only question was if my legs had the strength to move me up and down.


wanna elaborate a little?

pulling your shoulder-blades together like hardcore really helps too. in the past i was just pulling them together a bit and getting under. but either my mobility got a bit better or i pulled tighter and its a big help.

I'm not sure if I can explain this properly, but this is how the physio explained it to me.

If you place your fingers on your hip bones, move them 2cm towards your belly button and 2-3cm towards your toes, your fingers should be one one of your core muscles (not sure which one, maybe someone can clarify?). Push down lightly. When you try to push your belly button towards your back (don't suck it in, it shoudln't really move just tighten), you'll feel the muscles under your fingers flex which means your core muscles are tightened.

I had to exercise that until I could keep them tight for 10 seconds while breathing normally. Now in between each rep with squats, I push my belly button back to tighten those muscles. As a result, everything just feels much more stable. I uploaded a video a week back of 125kg 3x5 squats, and by the fourth and fifth reps, I was starting to lean forward a bit. With my core tightened yesterday, I squatted 137.5kg 3x5 and never felt close to leaning forward. Everything just went up and down the way it was supposed to. I almost got stuck under the bar because my legs were failing at the end of the third set, but my back stayed tight.


By doing this, you'll hopefully be able to keep your technique on the higher weights good enough to allow you to keep going up in weights. At some point, when your technique gets injury-bad, you have to reset and spend some time working up to the weight again, but that's just part of it.

Off topic, but Cloak, try not to triple post!

EDIT: You press the quote button, then copy the text in there to your first post.
Moderator
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15355 Posts
August 03 2012 11:53 GMT
#5874
On August 03 2012 20:04 Daigomi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 19:42 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

That's the thing though that's what didn't happen really before. Even when I went up to 115 my form always started to break in at 90, and I just powered through with terrible form. I must be doing something wrong.

TBH I expected the video to show this much more clearly. I was a bit surprised myself since the 90kg reps don't look nearly as bad as they feel like.

I'll put more effort into getting the weight on the outside of my feet, that's something I haven't consciously worked on so far. Other than that I am just really at a loss what to improve on specifically.

If your main issue is falling forward, then you should work on keeping your core tight. The easiest way to improve this is by taking a deep breath (similar to what you do on bench) before each rep and pushing your chest out. The breath keeps everything a bit tighter at the top. Also, tighten your core muscles just before each rep. I started doing that recently and it makes a huge difference. I made a post about that a while ago which I'll quote here in case you missed it:

My main issue is I am not going deep enough, beginning with 90kg and getting worse above that. The leaning forward is more a result of trying to force myself lower. I think I know what you mean - but I don't see the point in trying higher weights if that results in me doing less and less of a full squat (which is def. what happened before and what I want to avoid).

I'll try that core tightening exercise, thanks.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
August 03 2012 11:59 GMT
#5875
On August 03 2012 20:53 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 20:04 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 19:42 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

That's the thing though that's what didn't happen really before. Even when I went up to 115 my form always started to break in at 90, and I just powered through with terrible form. I must be doing something wrong.

TBH I expected the video to show this much more clearly. I was a bit surprised myself since the 90kg reps don't look nearly as bad as they feel like.

I'll put more effort into getting the weight on the outside of my feet, that's something I haven't consciously worked on so far. Other than that I am just really at a loss what to improve on specifically.

If your main issue is falling forward, then you should work on keeping your core tight. The easiest way to improve this is by taking a deep breath (similar to what you do on bench) before each rep and pushing your chest out. The breath keeps everything a bit tighter at the top. Also, tighten your core muscles just before each rep. I started doing that recently and it makes a huge difference. I made a post about that a while ago which I'll quote here in case you missed it:

My main issue is I am not going deep enough, beginning with 90kg and getting worse above that. The leaning forward is more a result of trying to force myself lower. I think I know what you mean - but I don't see the point in trying higher weights if that results in me doing less and less of a full squat (which is def. what happened before and what I want to avoid).

I'll try that core tightening exercise, thanks.

If depth is your problem, have you tried widening your stance a bit with your feet pointed out more? Like, 20% wider than shoulder width with your feet pointing 30-40 degrees out (which is quite a lot). You can try it without the bar, just bodyweight. To start the movement, push your legs out in line with your feet. When you do this, they get out of the way of your ass very quickly, so there's nothing stopping you from going down to full depth.
Moderator
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-03 13:26:37
August 03 2012 13:26 GMT
#5876
On August 03 2012 20:53 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 20:04 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 19:42 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 19:20 Daigomi wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:44 zatic wrote:
On August 03 2012 16:26 ShadowDrgn wrote:
It's normal for your form to break down when you're lifting at your max. Your sets below 90kg look excellent, and even your first rep or two at 90kg is very good. Sure, they get progressively worse, but even that fifth rep broke parallel when you're obviously tired and struggling. I don't see any problems with your squat. Just keep your core tight, chest up, and keep getting stronger.

Well my max is 115kg. 90kg is really not exhausting at all for my legs, I just struggle to stay upright. But I want to finally fix my form. If I continue past 90kg I fear my form will get progressively worse, which has happened before.

However, you really need to break through your max to ensure you keep exercising the weak muscles. By the time you get to 125kg, your technique on 105kg will look like your current technique on 90kg, and by the time you get to 140kg, your technique on 120kg will look like your current 90kg. That's the big thing for me with squats, it never feels good. If you feel like you did the set with perfect technique then chances are the weight was way too low.

That's the thing though that's what didn't happen really before. Even when I went up to 115 my form always started to break in at 90, and I just powered through with terrible form. I must be doing something wrong.

TBH I expected the video to show this much more clearly. I was a bit surprised myself since the 90kg reps don't look nearly as bad as they feel like.

I'll put more effort into getting the weight on the outside of my feet, that's something I haven't consciously worked on so far. Other than that I am just really at a loss what to improve on specifically.

If your main issue is falling forward, then you should work on keeping your core tight. The easiest way to improve this is by taking a deep breath (similar to what you do on bench) before each rep and pushing your chest out. The breath keeps everything a bit tighter at the top. Also, tighten your core muscles just before each rep. I started doing that recently and it makes a huge difference. I made a post about that a while ago which I'll quote here in case you missed it:

My main issue is I am not going deep enough, beginning with 90kg and getting worse above that. The leaning forward is more a result of trying to force myself lower. I think I know what you mean - but I don't see the point in trying higher weights if that results in me doing less and less of a full squat (which is def. what happened before and what I want to avoid).

I'll try that core tightening exercise, thanks.

I recently started doing core exercises to help with my injured back and they are doing wonders for me.
Try stuff like planks, side planks, and use different variations to make it harder (like lifting one leg or balancing on bosu ball).

One suggestion for your technique is to try letting your knees move forward a bit more. With the correct technique, this will make your back more upright which means less stress on your lower back. Or you could widen your stance like Dai said.
Official Entusman #21
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
August 03 2012 17:42 GMT
#5877
Fuck yeah, Adipower's came in today. Making tomorrow's deadlift day a squat/clean day just because I can't wait to try them out.

After two years of wearing minimally soled Pumas (like these) I'm amazed at how heavy they are, even though I was expecting a difference, but still excited.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15355 Posts
August 03 2012 17:46 GMT
#5878
Hmm tried to focus on keeping my core tight during front squats today. Apparently focused too much so I dropped the bar and had to catch it with my collarbone. Ouch.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
August 03 2012 17:48 GMT
#5879
On August 04 2012 02:42 phyre112 wrote:
Fuck yeah, Adipower's came in today. Making tomorrow's deadlift day a squat/clean day just because I can't wait to try them out.

After two years of wearing minimally soled Pumas (like these) I'm amazed at how heavy they are, even though I was expecting a difference, but still excited.

Once you get used to it, you won't notice the weight. They are still uncomfortable as hell to walk around in though.
Official Entusman #21
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
August 03 2012 17:52 GMT
#5880
On August 04 2012 02:48 infinity21 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2012 02:42 phyre112 wrote:
Fuck yeah, Adipower's came in today. Making tomorrow's deadlift day a squat/clean day just because I can't wait to try them out.

After two years of wearing minimally soled Pumas (like these) I'm amazed at how heavy they are, even though I was expecting a difference, but still excited.

Once you get used to it, you won't notice the weight. They are still uncomfortable as hell to walk around in though.


yeah, I put them on right away and...

I normally wear a 13 in Adidas shoes, so I had to get these in a 12.5. My left foot is fine, but my right is just a LITTLE bigger, so it feels squeezed in the toe. Still, it's not that it "doesn't fit" it's just tight, but that's how they're supposed to feel I suppose.

I have never been this excited about a pair of shoes though.
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