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TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2012 - Page 116

Forum Index > Sports
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Raidern
Profile Joined February 2005
Brazil3821 Posts
March 12 2012 14:11 GMT
#2301
I started to run on the same days as my workout days (Mon-Wed-Fri). I *think* that doing that I still allow a free day to help my body recover. I'm starting slow and adding 100m after each session, so 300m a week. I noticed that, understandably, I'm feeling considerably more tired than when I didn't run. I'm not concerned at all about halting bodyweight gains, but I'm worried about having a harder time adding weight to my lifts.

Now my questions are:

* What's better, running on the same days as weightlifting workouts, or the day after?
* Is there something I should do to help ease the soreness on my legs, like massage or stretching after running? I especially feel a discomfort on the backside of legs, close to the knees.

Thanks
For the Swarm!
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 14:19:06
March 12 2012 14:16 GMT
#2302
On March 12 2012 22:59 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
@Daigomi Rip does NOT recommend all lifts starting at 20kg. He recommends starting each set of warmups with the empty bar, as in even if you're gonna go for a 300pounds bench you warmup with the empty bar. He thinks your starting weight for the very first damn session should be when form starts breaking down/the weight slows down considerably. It's still low, but for most adult males that's going to be like a 60-70kg deadlift at least.

That sounds right. However, I think Stronglifts has you starting at nothing (bar) going 5x5 and just increasing every workout until you can only increase once a week. Not sure if relevant but I was nodding my head with Daigomi but then I realized I got SS and SL mixed up since I've been reading / doing both.

On March 12 2012 23:11 Raidern wrote:
I started to run on the same days as my workout days (Mon-Wed-Fri). I *think* that doing that I still allow a free day to help my body recover. I'm starting slow and adding 100m after each session, so 300m a week. I noticed that, understandably, I'm feeling considerably more tired than when I didn't run. I'm not concerned at all about halting bodyweight gains, but I'm worried about having a harder time adding weight to my lifts.

Now my questions are:

* What's better, running on the same days as weightlifting workouts, or the day after?
* Is there something I should do to help ease the soreness on my legs, like massage or stretching after running? I especially feel a discomfort on the backside of legs, close to the knees.

Thanks

Should look into a foam roller. I got one a few weeks back, soreness and knots so much better now. My thighs used to be so tight, just in general and from starting lifting 3x a week, and the roller just loosened them up in a few sessions. I like it and I'll keep using it.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 14:27:32
March 12 2012 14:27 GMT
#2303
On March 12 2012 22:59 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
@Daigomi Rip does NOT recommend all lifts starting at 20kg. He recommends starting each set of warmups with the empty bar, as in even if you're gonna go for a 300pounds bench you warmup with the empty bar. He thinks your starting weight for the very first damn session should be when form starts breaking down/the weight slows down considerably. It's still low, but for most adult males that's going to be like a 60-70kg deadlift at least.

My mistake. It seems like I got SL and SS mixed up. In that case, I agree with Lemons on this. Asking absolute beginners to start on their 5RM with an exercise that's got a reasonable risk of injury, when they have no real experience doing that exercise, is simply begging for an injury. I much prefer SL's approach of starting with the bar and working yourself up to your 5RM over the first few weeks. It gives you a few sessions to learn proper technique and ensures that all the small stabilising muscles are ready for the heavier weights once you get there. Of course, if you have a proper trainer ensuring that your technique is correct it's a different story, but I'm guessing that's not the case for most people.
Moderator
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
March 12 2012 16:36 GMT
#2304
tried some running yesterday, first time in almost 3 years, felt good but goddamn it hurts everywhere today ^^ did 5km then it felt like my lunges were going to break and my legs were gelly
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
March 12 2012 16:49 GMT
#2305
On March 13 2012 01:36 Pulimuli wrote:
tried some running yesterday, first time in almost 3 years, felt good but goddamn it hurts everywhere today ^^ did 5km then it felt like my lunges were going to break and my legs were gelly


Have you done any kind of exercise for those 3 years? Because running 5km with no exercise for 3 years is pretty impressive.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 18:10:21
March 12 2012 18:09 GMT
#2306
I burned out, was just too tired to do all my squats set. Last week of smolov btw.

Squat: 152.5kgx5, x2, x5.

So I just did 2 reps on 2nd set and decided to man up a last set of 5. It was just too much. Didn't fail any rep, but I almost passed out and the pain was fucking unbearable.
Weekend of bad sleep/not enough food/stress took its toll on me.

I'm still confident I can just ignore this and do the supposed volume for wednesday/saturday and go for the 200kg squat next saturday. Looking foward to it
sJarl
Profile Joined September 2010
Iceland1699 Posts
March 12 2012 18:11 GMT
#2307
On March 13 2012 03:09 GoTuNk! wrote:
I burned out, was just too tired to do all my squats set. Last week of smolov btw.

Squat: 152.5kgx5, x2, x5.

So I just did 2 reps on 2nd set and decided to man up a last set of 5. It was just too much. Didn't fail any rep, but I almost passed out and the pain was fucking unbearable.
Weekend of bad sleep/not enough food/stress took its toll on me.

I'm still confident I can just ignore this and do the supposed volume for wednesday/saturday and go for the 200kg squat next saturday. Looking foward to it


i'm not going to wish you any luck since there is no way in hell i'm going to let you beat me to 200kg!
"Witness!" - Karsa Orlong
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9377 Posts
March 12 2012 18:25 GMT
#2308
I almost passed out on my friday morning workout.

I went to the gym without eating anything, and well, I started with squats (125kg x 3 x 5), then I proceeded to do some Press and then Bench (my workout got completely fucked, made no fucking sense). By the time I was walking home, I felt nauseaous, and a bit "numb". I got home and I felt this weakness inside of me. I went to have lunch with my parents but I felt weak still, guess my sugar levels went too "down"? maybe?.

I ate, and went for grocery shopping, still feeling pretty weak. when I got back home, I slept for a bit, and woke up a lot better. I guess I just needed a bit of rest. Still one of those things that I don't want to experience it again.

If I go to the gym today, I'll go and Squat my 125kg or 130, We'll see.

Gogo me, time to not give up.
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
March 12 2012 18:32 GMT
#2309
On March 13 2012 03:25 funkie wrote:
I almost passed out on my friday morning workout.

I went to the gym without eating anything, and well, I started with squats (125kg x 3 x 5), then I proceeded to do some Press and then Bench (my workout got completely fucked, made no fucking sense). By the time I was walking home, I felt nauseaous, and a bit "numb". I got home and I felt this weakness inside of me. I went to have lunch with my parents but I felt weak still, guess my sugar levels went too "down"? maybe?.

I ate, and went for grocery shopping, still feeling pretty weak. when I got back home, I slept for a bit, and woke up a lot better. I guess I just needed a bit of rest. Still one of those things that I don't want to experience it again.

If I go to the gym today, I'll go and Squat my 125kg or 130, We'll see.

Gogo me, time to not give up.


If I go to the gym without eating anything I pass out after 15 minutes lol
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Netherlands1242 Posts
March 12 2012 18:36 GMT
#2310
On March 12 2012 23:27 Daigomi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 22:59 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
@Daigomi Rip does NOT recommend all lifts starting at 20kg. He recommends starting each set of warmups with the empty bar, as in even if you're gonna go for a 300pounds bench you warmup with the empty bar. He thinks your starting weight for the very first damn session should be when form starts breaking down/the weight slows down considerably. It's still low, but for most adult males that's going to be like a 60-70kg deadlift at least.

My mistake. It seems like I got SL and SS mixed up. In that case, I agree with Lemons on this. Asking absolute beginners to start on their 5RM with an exercise that's got a reasonable risk of injury, when they have no real experience doing that exercise, is simply begging for an injury. I much prefer SL's approach of starting with the bar and working yourself up to your 5RM over the first few weeks. It gives you a few sessions to learn proper technique and ensures that all the small stabilising muscles are ready for the heavier weights once you get there. Of course, if you have a proper trainer ensuring that your technique is correct it's a different story, but I'm guessing that's not the case for most people.

I really feel that you can start with a 50kg deadlift for most adult males and have a stupidly low chance of having them injure themselves. With proper form the right muscles will be strenghtened sooner, leading to more safety in the long run. Deadlift form is pretty easy if you actually follow good advice (Rip/Tate/Bolton whatever), assuming you aren't trying to pulling WR's and even then I think it isn't as mechanically challenging as say Snatching or Squatting.
Get huge or die mirin | Diamond on LoL
Deadeight
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1629 Posts
March 12 2012 18:39 GMT
#2311
Bugger. I've got Patellar Tendonitis in my knee.

I've had it once before and went to the doctors. I had Osgood Schlatters when I was younger and the doctor told me I may have had some bone fragment off and be in the tendon. My bike broke so I've been running to and from uni the past week or two and I'm pretty sure that's caused it.

I guess I have to stop squats for a while Hurts too much to squat anyway, missed mine today.
Deadeight
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1629 Posts
March 12 2012 18:41 GMT
#2312
On March 13 2012 03:36 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 23:27 Daigomi wrote:
On March 12 2012 22:59 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
@Daigomi Rip does NOT recommend all lifts starting at 20kg. He recommends starting each set of warmups with the empty bar, as in even if you're gonna go for a 300pounds bench you warmup with the empty bar. He thinks your starting weight for the very first damn session should be when form starts breaking down/the weight slows down considerably. It's still low, but for most adult males that's going to be like a 60-70kg deadlift at least.

My mistake. It seems like I got SL and SS mixed up. In that case, I agree with Lemons on this. Asking absolute beginners to start on their 5RM with an exercise that's got a reasonable risk of injury, when they have no real experience doing that exercise, is simply begging for an injury. I much prefer SL's approach of starting with the bar and working yourself up to your 5RM over the first few weeks. It gives you a few sessions to learn proper technique and ensures that all the small stabilising muscles are ready for the heavier weights once you get there. Of course, if you have a proper trainer ensuring that your technique is correct it's a different story, but I'm guessing that's not the case for most people.

I really feel that you can start with a 50kg deadlift for most adult males and have a stupidly low chance of having them injure themselves. With proper form the right muscles will be strenghtened sooner, leading to more safety in the long run. Deadlift form is pretty easy if you actually follow good advice (Rip/Tate/Bolton whatever), assuming you aren't trying to pulling WR's and even then I think it isn't as mechanically challenging as say Snatching or Squatting.



I think you're right. I've taught a few people to deadlift and unlike squats people don't really do the technique correctly with just a bar. You need some weight to really understand it I feel.
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9377 Posts
March 12 2012 19:13 GMT
#2313
On March 13 2012 03:41 Deadeight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2012 03:36 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
On March 12 2012 23:27 Daigomi wrote:
On March 12 2012 22:59 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
@Daigomi Rip does NOT recommend all lifts starting at 20kg. He recommends starting each set of warmups with the empty bar, as in even if you're gonna go for a 300pounds bench you warmup with the empty bar. He thinks your starting weight for the very first damn session should be when form starts breaking down/the weight slows down considerably. It's still low, but for most adult males that's going to be like a 60-70kg deadlift at least.

My mistake. It seems like I got SL and SS mixed up. In that case, I agree with Lemons on this. Asking absolute beginners to start on their 5RM with an exercise that's got a reasonable risk of injury, when they have no real experience doing that exercise, is simply begging for an injury. I much prefer SL's approach of starting with the bar and working yourself up to your 5RM over the first few weeks. It gives you a few sessions to learn proper technique and ensures that all the small stabilising muscles are ready for the heavier weights once you get there. Of course, if you have a proper trainer ensuring that your technique is correct it's a different story, but I'm guessing that's not the case for most people.

I really feel that you can start with a 50kg deadlift for most adult males and have a stupidly low chance of having them injure themselves. With proper form the right muscles will be strenghtened sooner, leading to more safety in the long run. Deadlift form is pretty easy if you actually follow good advice (Rip/Tate/Bolton whatever), assuming you aren't trying to pulling WR's and even then I think it isn't as mechanically challenging as say Snatching or Squatting.



I think you're right. I've taught a few people to deadlift and unlike squats people don't really do the technique correctly with just a bar. You need some weight to really understand it I feel.


Same thing happens with the PowerClean.

You can try and teach everybody all you want with the empty bar, but when it gets down to weight, people tend to forget about "How it feels with a heavy bar" because they're taught differently.

I love warming up with the empty bar, but the real shit goes down when I start puttin' those 20kg plates up on that thing.
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
March 12 2012 19:25 GMT
#2314
On March 13 2012 03:36 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 23:27 Daigomi wrote:
On March 12 2012 22:59 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
@Daigomi Rip does NOT recommend all lifts starting at 20kg. He recommends starting each set of warmups with the empty bar, as in even if you're gonna go for a 300pounds bench you warmup with the empty bar. He thinks your starting weight for the very first damn session should be when form starts breaking down/the weight slows down considerably. It's still low, but for most adult males that's going to be like a 60-70kg deadlift at least.

My mistake. It seems like I got SL and SS mixed up. In that case, I agree with Lemons on this. Asking absolute beginners to start on their 5RM with an exercise that's got a reasonable risk of injury, when they have no real experience doing that exercise, is simply begging for an injury. I much prefer SL's approach of starting with the bar and working yourself up to your 5RM over the first few weeks. It gives you a few sessions to learn proper technique and ensures that all the small stabilising muscles are ready for the heavier weights once you get there. Of course, if you have a proper trainer ensuring that your technique is correct it's a different story, but I'm guessing that's not the case for most people.

I really feel that you can start with a 50kg deadlift for most adult males and have a stupidly low chance of having them injure themselves. With proper form the right muscles will be strenghtened sooner, leading to more safety in the long run. Deadlift form is pretty easy if you actually follow good advice (Rip/Tate/Bolton whatever), assuming you aren't trying to pulling WR's and even then I think it isn't as mechanically challenging as say Snatching or Squatting.

Yeah, with deadlift I think starting on 50kg is probably fine. I started on 40kg even though I was doing SL, since pulling just the bar without any plates (for height) is annoying as shit. 50kg is still quite far away from most people's starting 5RM if I had to guess, so it's still an opportunity to learn the technique before you get to a point where you really struggle.

As you mention, DL technique is much easier than squat technique but I still wouldn't want to start someone of at their max. Even people who've been deadlifting for a while lose their shape when they lift their max (upper back/lower back bends). If you ask someone who doesn't even know how a DL is supposed to feel to lift their max, chances are they'll have terrible form and no idea that their form should be better.

Also, and this is just me being pedantic, but starting at 50kg wouldn't lead to increased safety (it wouldn't necessarily lead to increased risk either). Assume there are two people (Sam and Bob) who start exercising. Sam starts two weeks before Bob but starts deadlift at 20kg. By the time Sam reaches 50kg, Bob starts at 50kg, and from there on their workouts are identical. The only difference between Sam and Bob at each weight they lift is that Sam has done some additional (probably useless) sessions at 20kg. Since doing deadlifts on 20kg has a very small effect, their chances of injury are roughly the same :p
Moderator
sJarl
Profile Joined September 2010
Iceland1699 Posts
March 12 2012 19:28 GMT
#2315
On March 13 2012 03:39 Deadeight wrote:
Bugger. I've got Patellar Tendonitis in my knee.

I've had it once before and went to the doctors. I had Osgood Schlatters when I was younger and the doctor told me I may have had some bone fragment off and be in the tendon. My bike broke so I've been running to and from uni the past week or two and I'm pretty sure that's caused it.

I guess I have to stop squats for a while Hurts too much to squat anyway, missed mine today.


If that is the case you aren't going to get better. This shit doesn't heal on it's own. Struggled with it for over 2 years until I had it operated on. Also, squats aren't the problem really. Running is.
"Witness!" - Karsa Orlong
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 19:42:24
March 12 2012 19:41 GMT
#2316
On March 13 2012 01:49 solidbebe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2012 01:36 Pulimuli wrote:
tried some running yesterday, first time in almost 3 years, felt good but goddamn it hurts everywhere today ^^ did 5km then it felt like my lunges were going to break and my legs were gelly


Have you done any kind of exercise for those 3 years? Because running 5km with no exercise for 3 years is pretty impressive.


started doing weightlifting around christmas again :b

but no cardio what so ever. Summer of 2009 i did 10km in 46min which is my PR.
Deadeight
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1629 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 19:59:06
March 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#2317
On March 13 2012 04:28 sJarl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2012 03:39 Deadeight wrote:
Bugger. I've got Patellar Tendonitis in my knee.

I've had it once before and went to the doctors. I had Osgood Schlatters when I was younger and the doctor told me I may have had some bone fragment off and be in the tendon. My bike broke so I've been running to and from uni the past week or two and I'm pretty sure that's caused it.

I guess I have to stop squats for a while Hurts too much to squat anyway, missed mine today.


If that is the case you aren't going to get better. This shit doesn't heal on it's own. Struggled with it for over 2 years until I had it operated on. Also, squats aren't the problem really. Running is.



I've had lumps there since early teens, but it's never hurt apart from the one time I was doing a lot of running and got it before, after rest it stopped. Never had an issue with years of rowing/cycling. I think if I stop running and rest it, then start squats again when it stops hurting I should be ok, and I'll stick to cycling for cardio. I don't think (hopefully) I have it as bad as you had, it's only developed over the last couple of days and I've recognised it earlyish.
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 20:19:44
March 12 2012 20:14 GMT
#2318
On March 12 2012 23:11 Raidern wrote:
I started to run on the same days as my workout days (Mon-Wed-Fri). I *think* that doing that I still allow a free day to help my body recover. I'm starting slow and adding 100m after each session, so 300m a week. I noticed that, understandably, I'm feeling considerably more tired than when I didn't run. I'm not concerned at all about halting bodyweight gains, but I'm worried about having a harder time adding weight to my lifts.

Now my questions are:

* What's better, running on the same days as weightlifting workouts, or the day after?
* Is there something I should do to help ease the soreness on my legs, like massage or stretching after running? I especially feel a discomfort on the backside of legs, close to the knees.

Thanks


i liked this link http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

damn Deadeight i hope it clears up
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Raidern
Profile Joined February 2005
Brazil3821 Posts
March 12 2012 20:25 GMT
#2319
thanks ffgenerations

can someone comment on what's better, running on workout days or on free days? I'm going to run 3x a week max.
For the Swarm!
glurio
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany597 Posts
March 12 2012 20:27 GMT
#2320
Run after the workout so you got some free days for recovery.
Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford
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