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Gatored
United States679 Posts
1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. Here is one from the side: | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On March 13 2012 04:25 Daigomi wrote: Yeah, with deadlift I think starting on 50kg is probably fine. I started on 40kg even though I was doing SL, since pulling just the bar without any plates (for height) is annoying as shit. 50kg is still quite far away from most people's starting 5RM if I had to guess, so it's still an opportunity to learn the technique before you get to a point where you really struggle. As you mention, DL technique is much easier than squat technique but I still wouldn't want to start someone of at their max. Even people who've been deadlifting for a while lose their shape when they lift their max (upper back/lower back bends). If you ask someone who doesn't even know how a DL is supposed to feel to lift their max, chances are they'll have terrible form and no idea that their form should be better. Also, and this is just me being pedantic, but starting at 50kg wouldn't lead to increased safety (it wouldn't necessarily lead to increased risk either). Assume there are two people (Sam and Bob) who start exercising. Sam starts two weeks before Bob but starts deadlift at 20kg. By the time Sam reaches 50kg, Bob starts at 50kg, and from there on their workouts are identical. The only difference between Sam and Bob at each weight they lift is that Sam has done some additional (probably useless) sessions at 20kg. Since doing deadlifts on 20kg has a very small effect, their chances of injury are roughly the same :p So I was just over at /fit/ and someone commented on deadlift form by mentioning Konstantinov Konstantinov and his rounded upper back style. I googled a bit and found this interview: link. This man is ridiculously strong. And it seems he gets away with lifting "wrong". I don't know how to feel about that :p On March 13 2012 01:36 Pulimuli wrote: tried some running yesterday, first time in almost 3 years, felt good but goddamn it hurts everywhere today ^^ did 5km then it felt like my lunges were going to break and my legs were gelly I think I'm gonna have to start running again as well. My stamina is ridiculously bad. During my squat work sets I start gasping for air like a drowning man after 2-3 reps. But I hate cardio >_< On March 13 2012 05:40 Gatored wrote: I just started on the SS workout 2 days ago and I have a few questions and also 2 videos on my form for deadlift/squat if you could critique those. 1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. 1. Specific warmups perhaps, though their advantages are apparently disputed. 2. You're supposed to :p | ||
Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:40 Gatored wrote: I just started on the SS workout 2 days ago and I have a few questions and also 2 videos on my form for deadlift/squat if you could critique those. 1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xBztwoVCoA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONJ9mjvfDaw 1. No, you don't need to warm-up deadlift if you've already done squats. 2. Yes, I think Rippetoe actually suggests that you should put your thumb over the bar on squats. Regarding form, squat looks pretty decent, but it's hard to tell from behind. Side-on camera is always better. Deadlift also looks good. Perhaps see if you can keep your lower back a bit tighter in general, I think it was slightly rounded in one or two of the reps. Also, keep the bar closer to your legs at all times (up and down). You never really want 5-10cm between the bar and your legs. | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:47 Osmoses wrote: So I was just over at /fit/ and someone commented on deadlift form by mentioning Konstantinov Konstantinov and his rounded upper back style. I googled a bit and found this interview: link. This man is ridiculously strong. And it seems he gets away with lifting "wrong". I don't know how to feel about that :p There isn't actually anything wrong with rounding your upper back. Most high level lifters round their upper back because it shortens the range of motion and allows for a heavier weight. Deadlifting with a properly rounded back will not increase the risk of injury, but for the less advanced lifters it can be hard to keep your lower back straight so it's generally not advocated for beginners. | ||
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:47 Daigomi wrote: 1. No, you don't need to warm-up deadlift if you've already done squats. 2. Yes, I think Rippetoe actually suggests that you should put your thumb over the bar on squats. Regarding form, squat looks pretty decent, but it's hard to tell from behind. Side-on camera is always better. Deadlift also looks good. Perhaps see if you can keep your lower back a bit tighter in general, I think it was slightly rounded in one or two of the reps. Also, keep the bar closer to your legs at all times (up and down). You never really want 5-10cm between the bar and your legs. Not to sound like a douche, for going against you. But I do advice you to do your warmups sets for every lift. Seriously, if they don't interfere with your main sets, I always say "why not?". I specially, do warm up on the deadlift, since I've seen some videos (some are here too) of people tearing their muscles up while doing heavy deadlifts. I'm not saying you will tear a muscle if you don't warmup, but, hey, a little warmin up can't hurt, can it?. On the Deadlift form, I'd like to see you, keep your core and lower back tight, and maybe bring up your chest a bit up? I see some rounding in the lower portion of your back. Other than that, good extesion and good speed. Keep it up!  . | ||
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:47 Osmoses wrote: So I was just over at /fit/ and someone commented on deadlift form by mentioning Konstantinov Konstantinov and his rounded upper back style. I googled a bit and found this interview: link. This man is ridiculously strong. And it seems he gets away with lifting "wrong". I don't know how to feel about that :p I think I'm gonna have to start running again as well. My stamina is ridiculously bad. During my squat work sets I start gasping for air like a drowning man after 2-3 reps. But I hate cardio >_< 1. Specific warmups perhaps, though their advantages are apparently disputed. 2. You're supposed to :p If you hate cardio, having sex is a pretty good cardio. ask celltech ;D. or decaf..where's that mofo these days? | ||
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On March 13 2012 06:28 funkie wrote: Not to sound like a douche, for going against you. But I do advice you to do your warmups sets for every lift. Seriously, if they don't interfere with your main sets, I always say "why not?". I specially, do warm up on the deadlift, since I've seen some videos (some are here too) of people tearing their muscles up while doing heavy deadlifts. I'm not saying you will tear a muscle if you don't warmup, but, hey, a little warmin up can't hurt, can it?. On the Deadlift form, I'd like to see you, keep your core and lower back tight, and maybe bring up your chest a bit up? I see some rounding in the lower portion of your back. Other than that, good extesion and good speed. Keep it up! .Haha that's fine. I just remember that when I started, I read somewhere that since deadlifts uses many of the same muscles as squat, the squats act as a general warm-up for deadlifts. I couldn't find a source for that now, so maybe I remember wrong. Either way, I'm still pretty new (only been doing SS for 5-6 months now), so I actually prefer it if other people give answers. I just help out where I think I can :p | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On March 13 2012 06:28 funkie wrote: If you hate cardio, having sex is a pretty good cardio. ask celltech ;D. or decaf..where's that mofo these days? Aw man, you mean I gotta get laid? Shit. | ||
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Ingenol
United States1328 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:40 Gatored wrote: I just started on the SS workout 2 days ago and I have a few questions and also 2 videos on my form for deadlift/squat if you could critique those. 1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. I would do the negative part of the deadlift faster--make it more of a controlled drop. Deadlift injuries most commonly occur from trying to lower the weight back to the ground too slowly. | ||
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vicariouscheese
United States589 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:40 Gatored wrote: I just started on the SS workout 2 days ago and I have a few questions and also 2 videos on my form for deadlift/squat if you could critique those. 1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xBztwoVCoA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONJ9mjvfDaw Here is one from the side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdYA8lcy3Vc That looks like a better (a lot better) than average start to your form, good job Squat I think could go slightly lower, but I'm relatively short and used to looking at olympic lifts. The main concern I have is on the side view, it looks like your knees are going forward a lot. You want to sit back more, and keep your shins as perpendicular to the ground as possible - ideally your knees are only like 1/2 an inch over your toes. I'm not quite sure of the biodynamics to comment what specifically happens when you go that far forward, but I started squatting like that, and I had strained calves and blew out my back once. This got fixed when I started squatting barefoot/with oly shoes, with regular shoes I just couldn't balance well enough to prevent it once I passed body weight squats. You should always warm up for deadlifts. Since you're doing very light weight now, it's not a big deal. But really- would you go in and do 350 without a warmup? The movement isn't the same as a squat, and there is the mental aspect to it as well. SS recommends thumbs over grip, so it's fine. The reasoning behind is that with thumbs around it's easier to accidentally try to push up with your arms and shoulders, and you could accidentally change the weight distribution. It's also easier to keep the shelf on your upper back imo. Powerlifters do thumbs around though (I think), so it's not like it's something that's a given. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
i went squat - didnt do press - 42.5kg x8, 47.5kg 2x5, 30kg x9 or so . swear im gonna burst a blood vessal one of these days clean - 60kg 5x3 ish. MUCH easier than last time, meaning i didnt take 10 minutes to do 1 rep due to constant mindfuck. should probably stick to 60kg next session aswell but will load 62.5 coz you never know LOL i, too, am starting running again, to keep me away from the computer for a while | ||
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sJarl
Iceland1699 Posts
On March 13 2012 04:57 Deadeight wrote: I've had lumps there since early teens, but it's never hurt apart from the one time I was doing a lot of running and got it before, after rest it stopped. Never had an issue with years of rowing/cycling. I think if I stop running and rest it, then start squats again when it stops hurting I should be ok, and I'll stick to cycling for cardio. I don't think (hopefully) I have it as bad as you had, it's only developed over the last couple of days and I've recognised it earlyish. Hopefully it will be enough | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
On March 13 2012 06:28 funkie wrote: Not to sound like a douche, for going against you. But I do advice you to do your warmups sets for every lift. Seriously, if they don't interfere with your main sets, I always say "why not?". I specially, do warm up on the deadlift, since I've seen some videos (some are here too) of people tearing their muscles up while doing heavy deadlifts. I'm not saying you will tear a muscle if you don't warmup, but, hey, a little warmin up can't hurt, can it?. On the Deadlift form, I'd like to see you, keep your core and lower back tight, and maybe bring up your chest a bit up? I see some rounding in the lower portion of your back. Other than that, good extesion and good speed. Keep it up! .I think when you're first starting the only lift that its important to warm up for is squat and usually that warms you up for the rest of your lifts. Don't think when you're starting you have to worry about biceps tear for heavy deadlifts yet. But as your weights increase you should definitely start to add warm ups to your routine but there is no harm adding warm up sets before for all lifts from the start just to have extra practice on technique. I think at least for deadlift though its a lot easier to warm up for it once you reach 135 lbs because most gyms don't have plates that are all the same size so you have to resort to laying plates on the ground for lower weights to raise the bar and its a hassle. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NFabr.jpg) | ||
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sJarl
Iceland1699 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:09 FFGenerations wrote: lol, really sums up OHP | ||
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GuiltyJerk
United States584 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:40 Gatored wrote: I just started on the SS workout 2 days ago and I have a few questions and also 2 videos on my form for deadlift/squat if you could critique those. 1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. 1. I just start my warmups at bar+ the biggest plates on each side  once your work sets are high enough you can get away with that, but warmups are as important for form as they are for the muscles you'll be using (at least for me)2. Indeed it is, easier to keep the bar's weight off your wrists if you have thumb over anyways EDIT: Workout went great! Squat 230 (finally unstuck :D:D:D) and deadlifted 295x5, decided I didn't like the last rep so I did another and it was hard as fuck but I got it up there felt so good Also, did press at 120, but I did 5 sets of 3 instead of 3 of 5, then I was thinking of doing 5x5 next time, is that a bad way to do it? I've had a hard time moving forward on those so I thought doing 3 with the same volume and then moving up to a full 5 reps would be an alright way to do it...thoughts? | ||
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:40 Gatored wrote: I just started on the SS workout 2 days ago and I have a few questions and also 2 videos on my form for deadlift/squat if you could critique those. 1. Are warmups needed for the deadlift if you do squats first and deadlifts last? It is annoying warming up with just the bar. 2. Is it okay to have your thumb over the bar for squats (I know you can't for bench)? It feels awkward with a full grip around the bar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xBztwoVCoA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONJ9mjvfDaw Here is one from the side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdYA8lcy3Vc You absolutely can bench with your thumb over the bar. Your grip is its strongest with a closed thumb. If you're pushing heavy weight, you may as well take the extra degree of safety over whatever physical benefit you get from leaving your thumb off. Mike Mentzer has a good demonstration of why to keep your thumb over the bar. It makes perfect sense, and it's worth trying to find. Your back rounds during your DL. Don't do that. Concentrate on arching your back (the opposite of rounding). Try dropping your ass just a little bit. It might help. Since you guys love him so much, Rippetoe has some good DL videos: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=deadlift form rippetoe&oq=deadlift form rippet&aq=0&aqi=g1g-m1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=4462l5374l0l6044l7l7l0l0l0l0l133l586l3.3l6l0 And you're dipping your back way too much in the squat. Hold the bar higher probably, on your traps. Use a pad if the bar hurts your traps/vertebrae too much. It's kind of "unmanly" but who gives a shit? If I squat without the pad, I have pain in my neck for a week. Your squat should look more like this, and less like yours: | ||
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Malinor
Germany4728 Posts
. And my resting heart rate is probably a couple of beats lower. Blood pressure was 145/90, not great but still much better than before. Leg still hurts, bah  | ||
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