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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
Please note that we do not recommend doing your long runs at marathon pace. That adds too much stress, particularly when coupled with the speed sessions scheduled for Tuesdays and Thursdays. If you overtrain, your performance will suffer. I really think it comes down to what sort of training schedule you're doing and what you want to work on. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On February 25 2013 02:27 LuckyFool wrote: I don't know but I'm following a schedule similar to this which has speed/interval work on Tuesday and Thursdays and specifically says: I really think it comes down to what sort of training schedule you're doing and what you want to work on. A progression run is not the same thing as a long run at marathon pace. Looking at this schedule, you probably aren't going to be feeling very chipper on Mondays or Wednesdays, so I wouldn't suggest doing progression runs those days even if for some reason you feel up to it. That leaves only Sunday as a possible day where that would happen...but if you're feeling a progression on a 15+ mile run after a decently tough Saturday.... Looking at that schedule, he has like 2.5 workouts per week. Tue/Thur as well as another tempo every other Saturday (MP run is a staple "tempo" of marathon training). The volume of the Saturday runs are also high in general, which makes it clear to me that the idea here is to do the Sunday runs on somewhat tired legs to simulate some of the fatigue you will face in the race. If you are having the energy to want to run the ends of 15+ mile long runs at marathon pace or faster, then your goal time and/or workouts are probably way to easy/slow. EDIT: I will say that I do dislike the long runs in this program. They are way too long proportionate to the amount of mileage being done, ESPECIALLY in conjunction with the already solid Saturdays. EDIT2: The "speedwork" there is a bit of a joke. 4x800? At a recommend pace of roughly 10k pace? That isn't even noticable really, the exception being if your totally new to intervals then those recommendations are fine. Something like 4xMile @ 8-10k pace with 2-3 minutes rest progressing to 6-8xMile @ 10k pace w/1-2 minutes rest are more what I would consider "solid sessions" | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:17 EchOne wrote: Noob question from someone who just tries to casually jog around with no routine: how do people run in winter? I find after a couple miles of breathing that 30 degree air my throat gets painfully raw and sore. Any tips for mitigating that or do I need to just man up and run more? Probably a matter of getting used to it, with more regular routine allowing for a more gradual adaptation. I never seem to notice it when I run, unless it's super, bitter cold like -20 or something. Best I can offer is to try to adjust to it gradually, or perhaps but some sort of hat/mask that covers your mouth so the air is warmed slightly. | ||
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Shottaz
United Kingdom414 Posts
Making a serious effort at the moment to eat right and run more, stopped smoking 4 days ago and went for a run on the 3rd day in, it was a lot easier. I feel like before I was trying to 'just run' and wasnt enjoying it because I wasnt losing weight or getting fitter. Yesterday I did my first 5k (on a treadmill) without stopping at 9.4km/h on the treadmill. I dont know if this is too fast for a beginner but I feel like I have to have it 9km/h+ just so I can stride properly. I'm 6'4" and my weight has gone from 245lbs to 225lbs and my main reason for writing this was to moan about how tough running is when you are that heavy. Obviously the plan is to do something about it, my goal is 200lbs which will be awesome. I'vew looked into things like HIIT for weight loss, at the moment I normally do around 6.5k which takes about 45 minutes with a walk to warm up and cool down at the end. *edit* at the moment I just do the same pace for 35-40 mins. Anyways, this is a great thread guys. It's interesting reading about poeples times etc, keeps me enjoying running even if it's indoors on a treadmill. (I actually quite like running on a treadmill, I have it on 0% incline to make the running easier which is good, because I find even a slow run tiring) | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
After I recovered for a week or two and started regularly going at it, at a slower pace and less mileage per week I had almost no shin issues and now I can go way more than originally without any issues. right now I just have to worry about some random ankle tendonitis or something of the sort, which also seems to have been brought on by trying to take too far a jump in too short a period of time. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:17 EchOne wrote: Noob question from someone who just tries to casually jog around with no routine: how do people run in winter? I find after a couple miles of breathing that 30 degree air my throat gets painfully raw and sore. Any tips for mitigating that or do I need to just man up and run more? Well, there are scarves or other things you put around your neck that can cover your mouth a bit if necessary so you don't get too cold but generally you just need to get used to it. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:39 Shauni wrote: is there a cure for shin splints? I feel like I've tried it all... I can't run without painkillers anymore. Rest, ice and a little bit of self massaging are what work best for me. On February 26 2013 08:17 EchOne wrote: Noob question from someone who just tries to casually jog around with no routine: how do people run in winter? I find after a couple miles of breathing that 30 degree air my throat gets painfully raw and sore. Any tips for mitigating that or do I need to just man up and run more? Just making sure, are you breathing in through your nose? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On March 01 2013 10:08 LuckyFool wrote: The only time I had shin splint issues was after a long period of inactivity and trying to do way too much way too soon. After I recovered for a week or two and started regularly going at it, at a slower pace and less mileage per week I had almost no shin issues and now I can go way more than originally without any issues. right now I just have to worry about some random ankle tendonitis or something of the sort, which also seems to have been brought on by trying to take too far a jump in too short a period of time. Where do you feel it? In the back of the ankle, maybe even running a little up toward the calf? Or somewhere else? On March 01 2013 08:39 Shauni wrote: is there a cure for shin splints? I feel like I've tried it all... I can't run without painkillers anymore. It's a self limited Unless you have really been running through it 2-4 weeks of rest should take care the issue. Then build back to the old level, but a little more cautiously. Make sure you have good footwear (cushioning can help here), especially if you're flat footed as that tends to result in too much overpronation, which generally is associated with higher instances of shin-splints. Run more on trails, rather than roads/crete if possible. Just making sure, are you breathing in through your nose? I'm not sure if he is, but I wouldn't want him to be. When running you need oxygen. This is best supplied with natural breathing through both the mouth and nose. Forcing one way will be un-natural and limiting for running, especially with higher intensities. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On March 01 2013 12:30 L_Master wrote: It's a self limited Unless you have really been running through it 2-4 weeks of rest should take care the issue. Then build back to the old level, but a little more cautiously. Make sure you have good footwear (cushioning can help here), especially if you're flat footed as that tends to result in too much overpronation, which generally is associated with higher instances of shin-splints. Run more on trails, rather than roads/crete if possible. That's the thing I don't get, resting, icing, massage. I've obviously done it but isn't it just temporary means to relieve the acute pain? It's something I've struggled with for years, no matter how long I rest or take a break it always comes back as soon as I'm starting exercising again (running and skipping rope mainly, but also during badminton). I've tried running insoles and it helps a little (I have a slight pronation), but it's like a workaround. I don't want to wear insoles for my indoor shoes or walking shoes. I'm not heavy (80/193) and my leg muscles should be pretty strong, even so I do a lot of squats and toelifts, but it feels like in vain. It feels kinda strange whenever I'm running, only my shin/calf muscles seem to be exercising, even when there's no pain associated. Maybe I'm running incorrectly somehow. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
no matter how long I rest or take a break it always comes back as soon as I'm starting exercising again How long of a total break from weight bearing exercise have you taken. Severe cases could need 4-6 months. If that isn't solving the problem, it's possible your not dealing with shin splints as much as you are a Sfx, which also usually heals with rest, but often needs complete relief from weight bearing (i.e. might even need to use crutches some) for 4-6 months. Where exactly do you feel the pain and when does it occur (during exercise, after, constantly, etc)? | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On March 02 2013 03:19 L_Master wrote: How long of a total break from weight bearing exercise have you taken. Severe cases could need 4-6 months. If that isn't solving the problem, it's possible your not dealing with shin splints as much as you are a Sfx, which also usually heals with rest, but often needs complete relief from weight bearing (i.e. might even need to use crutches some) for 4-6 months. Where exactly do you feel the pain and when does it occur (during exercise, after, constantly, etc)? I've rested for maybe two months time the most, not something extreme like with crutches that would feel silly. What is Sfx? From what I've read resting longer periods is not really a solution unless you have something more severe like stress fracture. I feel pain in the inner shinbone, usually pretty low, almost near the ankle. It varies between the different legs from day to day, sometimes both. The pain creeps slowly in during exercise, but doesn't really explode until I stand still after a session when it sometimes hurts so badly you just want to cry. Interestingly enough though, the pain always goes away within an hour or so, and I can only feel it very lightly when walking sometimes. | ||
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LagLovah
Canada552 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On March 02 2013 07:10 Shauni wrote: I've rested for maybe two months time the most, not something extreme like with crutches that would feel silly. What is Sfx? From what I've read resting longer periods is not really a solution unless you have something more severe like stress fracture. I feel pain in the inner shinbone, usually pretty low, almost near the ankle. It varies between the different legs from day to day, sometimes both. The pain creeps slowly in during exercise, but doesn't really explode until I stand still after a session when it sometimes hurts so badly you just want to cry. Interestingly enough though, the pain always goes away within an hour or so, and I can only feel it very lightly when walking sometimes. Sfx is just stress fracture abbreviation. The bottom line is that aside from Sfx, the things that cause Shin Splints are basically soft tissue problems which almost always are a result of inflammation. If it's not a stress fracture, then I don't really have any idea what would be going on to cause the pain to immediately return, despite haven taken multiple months off from weight bearing exercise. On March 02 2013 07:17 LagLovah wrote: Met my first running goal earlier today. 49:55 10km, first time in months ive been able to run without pain, also first time in a while I went on a day off instead of after a 12hr workday, felt amazing, without the problems it just went so smooth. Happy days.. Nice! So, so jealous of the "able to run without pain" part right about now. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On March 01 2013 12:30 L_Master wrote: Where do you feel it? In the back of the ankle, maybe even running a little up toward the calf? Or somewhere else? I feel it more near the side of the ankle running up toward calf (like right above the inner ankle bone) so I know it's not an achilles issue. (unless achilles goes along the side somehow as well?) I only really feel some pain if I put pressure or press on it. Walking feels fine and I have full motion in ankle- I can flex and bend foot normally without any pain. It's just some dull pain for a couple hours sometimes after longer runs. Also this has just been the left ankle, right hasn't had any symptoms like this at all. | ||
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LagLovah
Canada552 Posts
On February 26 2013 22:19 Shottaz wrote: I made a post earlier in this thread about my first steps into running, I ran outside in Winter in the UK for a bit but I never really ate right or took it too seriously. I have recently joined a gym right by my work for £13 a month for the gym and the pool because the company I work with also run the centre. Making a serious effort at the moment to eat right and run more, stopped smoking 4 days ago and went for a run on the 3rd day in, it was a lot easier. I feel like before I was trying to 'just run' and wasnt enjoying it because I wasnt losing weight or getting fitter. Yesterday I did my first 5k (on a treadmill) without stopping at 9.4km/h on the treadmill. I dont know if this is too fast for a beginner but I feel like I have to have it 9km/h+ just so I can stride properly. I'm 6'4" and my weight has gone from 245lbs to 225lbs and my main reason for writing this was to moan about how tough running is when you are that heavy. Obviously the plan is to do something about it, my goal is 200lbs which will be awesome. I'vew looked into things like HIIT for weight loss, at the moment I normally do around 6.5k which takes about 45 minutes with a walk to warm up and cool down at the end. *edit* at the moment I just do the same pace for 35-40 mins. Anyways, this is a great thread guys. It's interesting reading about poeples times etc, keeps me enjoying running even if it's indoors on a treadmill. (I actually quite like running on a treadmill, I have it on 0% incline to make the running easier which is good, because I find even a slow run tiring) What you said about the stride, I couldn't agree more, im also 6'4 and I don't feel like im striding comfortably unless its 11km/h at least, although 12 feels more natural. Hope you stick with it and make your goal. *edit* Up to 29km in the last 5 days now, and my weight has been in a slight freefall, down to under 175 now, kind of concerned im not eating enough. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:27 LuckyFool wrote: I feel it more near the side of the ankle running up toward calf (like right above the inner ankle bone) so I know it's not an achilles issue. (unless achilles goes along the side somehow as well?) I only really feel some pain if I put pressure or press on it. Walking feels fine and I have full motion in ankle- I can flex and bend foot normally without any pain. It's just some dull pain for a couple hours sometimes after longer runs. Also this has just been the left ankle, right hasn't had any symptoms like this at all. Sounds like what I've been dealing with for years. Mine always turned out to be stress fractures. Is it actually on the ankle or would you consider it on the shin? Like where is it relative to the ball thing that protrudes on the ankle? Have you ever been diagnosed with a stress fracture or bone injury in the shin? Have you ever limped during a run or in the morning when you first get out of bed from it? | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
 I've been doing roughly ~25mile + 1 day soccer week for a while. I've had more free time this week so I planned to run 42 miles by just running 7 miles 6 days in a row while skipping my usual long run (10 mile) and soccer. Soccer usually drains me the most, so I thought that this wouldn't be too big of a challenge. First 4 days went fine. I took it slow, so it was pretty easy and I didn't even feel tired after each run, but on the 5th day, I felt pain on lower inside part of my foot immediately as I started running. I gave up after a few minutes and got on a bicycle for an hour instead. I decided against running on the 6th day (today) and went to play soccer. Yes, awful idea, I know. I played through pain and I'm pretty sure it just made the injury worse. I don't think it's plantar fasciitis because it's not really bottom of my foot that's bothering me. I think it's probably a tendon that got inflamed from overuse, so I'm definitely going to take tomorrow off and probably do bicycle until I feel better. HM coming up in ~5 weeks, and I really hope this doesn't put me out of running for an extended duration. | ||
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TheMooseHeed
United Kingdom535 Posts
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