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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Every single study that shows "meat is bad" shows that processed meat is bad. Everyone knows processed meat is bad. Meanwhile, all of the high fat low carbohydrate interventional studies show vast improvements in serum triglycerides, LDL, and improvement in HDL as well as fasting glucose. I'll be waiting. | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
On June 23 2013 02:41 eshlow wrote: Yawn. If you know your science then you should be able to show me one interventional study that shows that NON-PROCESSED meat is bad for you. I'll be waiting. Meat is bad. Everyone knows that... Come on dude, meat is bad. + Show Spoiler + Whew! Now that that nonsense statement is over, just ignore that low-posting troll. He/She's been trawling the running forum for responses as well and you just have put the blinders up after a while. I do enjoy this thread and check it with some regularity. The best of weekends to you all! | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Vitruvian
United States168 Posts
On June 23 2013 02:41 eshlow wrote: Yawn. If you know your science then you should be able to show me one interventional study that shows that NON-PROCESSED meat is bad for you. Every single study that shows "meat is bad" shows that processed meat is bad. Everyone knows processed meat is bad. Meanwhile, all of the high fat low carbohydrate interventional studies show vast improvements in serum triglycerides, LDL, and improvement in HDL as well as fasting glucose. I'll be waiting. Please don't hold your breath. On June 11 2013 09:23 Komei wrote: This isn't a research paper. To which can't you find the studies? Rather than attempt to ridicule, try to have a more constructive and less negative attitude? Most people that follow the research already so it is obviously a waste of time to act like this is indeed a scholarly article. Also, no one post references on casual forums. | ||
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ieatkids5
United States4628 Posts
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On June 23 2013 14:50 ieatkids5 wrote: is this the 5th or 6th time that we've had this type of conversation here? If you count the times from back when TLHF was a thread instead of a forum, it's more like the 60th or 70th. Always turns out the same. Vegans/Vegetarians cry that meat is bad for you. Eshlow study bombs them. They bring up the china study. Everyone who's actually read the damn thing points out that its methodology is flawed - it isn't science. Then the regular posters say "at least you're not eating processed crap. But you should get more protein in" and that particular vegan/vegetarian stops posting because "no one listens to them" and "the posters here aren't open to new ideas". Then the cycle repeats in a week or two. | ||
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Komei
50 Posts
How come every heart disease or cancer society, every nutrition and dietetics academy, every academy of medical professionals/cardiologists, the WHO, every international panel like etc in every western country have certain advice against diets high in cholesterol, diets high in saturated fat, red meat, etc when these organizations are obviously very conservative in 'vegetarian or vegan ideas'. It is just that they feel the science forces them to. Not to mention avoid fad diets (hi paleo). Be it wrong or not, there is clear consensus and that's completely different from what Eshlow says. He might be right, but science is not on their side right now. He just cherry picks his studies. And he has to by definition because he is out there on the fringes, not in the mainstream. Every medical doctor gets taught cholesterol causes heart disease. Everyone. Wrong or right, it is taught because that's what the science and the studies have shown. How many serum cholesterol tests are taken every day? How many people take cholesterol-lowering medicine every day? Science may be wrong, it often has been in the past, but this is the science. Same thing with saturated fat. Same thing with animal protein and dairy. Of course the dairy and meat industry also pay for certain studies. And then there's always people that want to stir controversy and go against the established ideas no matter what. So surely Eshlow can find his studies. | ||
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
On June 24 2013 10:55 selboN wrote: I looked to see if this had been covered already (which I'm sure it has) but I didn't see anything... I'm not real familiar with plain jane whey protein. I've been taking a gainer since I started lifting. This has worked for me and I want to continue doing it post workout. But, I was looking to pick up a lean whey protein to take with my breakfast in the morning. I was wondering if I should just go to Wal-Mart and pick up some of the Body Fortress (cheap) stuff or should I consider picking up something like ON Gold Standard? I would look for the brand on here and see if they giving you what they advertised. On Double milk chocolate is delicious | ||
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
On June 24 2013 13:37 feanor1 wrote: I would look for the brand on here and see if they giving you what they advertised. On Double milk chocolate is delicious Thank you! That spreadsheet is very useful. Judging from that I might just go with the ON's Performance Whey. It's cheaper than Gold Standard anyways. Appreciate it. | ||
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4thHatchery
Finland125 Posts
On June 24 2013 06:33 phyre112 wrote: If you count the times from back when TLHF was a thread instead of a forum, it's more like the 60th or 70th. Always turns out the same. Vegans/Vegetarians cry that meat is bad for you. Eshlow study bombs them. They bring up the china study. Everyone who's actually read the damn thing points out that its methodology is flawed - it isn't science. Then the regular posters say "at least you're not eating processed crap. But you should get more protein in" and that particular vegan/vegetarian stops posting because "no one listens to them" and "the posters here aren't open to new ideas". Then the cycle repeats in a week or two. And how many times has this conversation been had with the same person? I'm watching you Komei... :D | ||
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decafchicken
United States20159 Posts
On June 24 2013 09:00 Komei wrote: Every medical doctor gets taught cholesterol causes heart disease. Everyone. Wrong or right, it is taught because that's what the science and the studies have shown. trollololololol | ||
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On June 24 2013 09:00 Komei wrote: Lol Eshlow study bombs.. How come every heart disease or cancer society, every nutrition and dietetics academy, every academy of medical professionals/cardiologists, the WHO, every international panel like etc in every western country have certain advice against diets high in cholesterol, diets high in saturated fat, red meat, etc when these organizations are obviously very conservative in 'vegetarian or vegan ideas'. It is just that they feel the science forces them to. Not to mention avoid fad diets (hi paleo). Be it wrong or not, there is clear consensus and that's completely different from what Eshlow says. He might be right, but science is not on their side right now. He just cherry picks his studies. And he has to by definition because he is out there on the fringes, not in the mainstream. Every medical doctor gets taught cholesterol causes heart disease. Everyone. Wrong or right, it is taught because that's what the science and the studies have shown. How many serum cholesterol tests are taken every day? How many people take cholesterol-lowering medicine every day? Science may be wrong, it often has been in the past, but this is the science. Same thing with saturated fat. Same thing with animal protein and dairy. Of course the dairy and meat industry also pay for certain studies. And then there's always people that want to stir controversy and go against the established ideas no matter what. So surely Eshlow can find his studies. Exactly. Cholesterol and meat being bad for you, for me at least is common sense. Compare the nutritional value of a pound of spinach with that of a pound of pork or chicken. The chicken and pigs are eating vegetables so you're basically eating their dead vegetables concentrated as muscle with all of the negative stuff such as cholesterol, saturated fat, and other crap that it ate a long with adrenaline depending on how it was killed. Fish is loaded with mercury and our oceans are going astray in huge part because of the large human consumption of mercury filled seafood. Humans are the only animals that can make a decision regarding morality and determine what they eat. I think that it's time that we wise up and do our best to make the best morality choices not to mention nutritional choices when it comes to what we eat. I think the big problem is that most meat eaters try to make up arguments of why meat is good for you because they enjoy eating it........it's sort of like a smoker telling people that smoking is good and that it reduces the risk of Parkinson's & Alzheimer's (this has been scientifically proven....look it up if you don't believe me) To me the Paleo diet is an excuse as well. The truth is that most people did not die from heart disease back in those days because you were lucky to make it past age 14 or if you were really lucky age 20....that's why there was a lack of people with heart disease (or any degenerative disease) back in those days it's because most died before their 21st birthday......they could have eaten Twinkies all of their life and still not have died of degenerative diseases. Even my dad (who is a hunter) laughs at the people that talk about how old the Paleo people lived or even people 100-200 years ago lived.....even 400 years ago you were lucky to make it past 20. Our ancestors in the Paleo days ate whatever they could come upon but now a days we know whats best for your body's and it so happens that it's also the best moral decision as well......it's plant based foods. People making arguments of why bacon is good and bragging about their bacon breakfast with sausage and than for dinner lamb chops because its what our ancestors that did not make it past 20 ate in small amounts is just an excuse to eat junk. I understand that it's hard to get off of meat, bacon, sausage, but if I have the willpower to do it than I think that anyone can do it. I have also never felt healthier after giving up meat not to mention that it's much cheaper than buying "organic" meat. Going vegan or vegetarian is all about whats "right" and is great for your health, the planet, your spirituality, and longevity. I actually feel bad for those that work out and eat tons of chicken and what not say so that they can be muscular and think that most girls care about that stuff just because I know that body building and power lifting is bad for you already and when you add in eating all of that meat/calories chances are you're going to die from a degenerative disease earlier as well... Your body is like a car the engine can only pull so much weight and take in so much junk before it breaks down for good. Be smart about what you put in your gas tank. On June 22 2013 23:27 eshlow wrote: Uh, olive oil doesn't have any omega 3s and nuts have almost all omega 6s. Omega 3s mostly come from meat and fish and eggs. b12 and omega 3s is what the vegan/vege diets are mostly deficient in... B12 comes from the bacteria on the plants (or somethinf of that effect) not to mention that it can be supplemented AND I live with a meat eater that has to get a B12 shot whereas I don't and I'm vegan......most are B12 defecient that don't supplement. You get more omega 3 in a handful of walnuts than a whole Salmon.....you be the judge of whats better. Mercury filled Salmon with omega 3 or Raw Walnuts with no mercury that has even more omega 3? On June 22 2013 16:36 Cynry wrote: For how long have you been doing that ? I've heard about vegans feeling great and all and which ended up lacking basic stuff like salt (sodium ?). Took quite some time to show up. Point is you can't just trust your guts on that one, and how you feel right now is kinda irrelevant. I mostly eat fresh and raw veggies and nuts indeed, and I feel the same as you when it comes to energy level and stuff. But I also eat chicken and eggs (not from the industry though). Red meat just doesn't appeal to me anymore, as do grains. So all in all I think we are pretty close mindset wise. But I said you may have convinced me, and I still stand skeptic. About your spirituality (I'm quite into that as well), friendly warning : I have seen and have been one of the people that used to talk about it a lot, how much I loved everyone and stuff. Well, let's say it's like sex, the ones who talk a lot about it are not the ones doing it regularly. May not apply to you, but keep your attention up. Talking is brain stuff trying to convinced itself that the work is done. Sodium deficient? That's a rare one as America is struggling with a high sodium epidemic....more people are dying from getting too much sodium than ever. A lack of sodium is not a problem for most vegans and it is easy to get in some sodium from foods. Having low sodium is easier on your heart & kidneys, most people are getting in too much sodium. You can generally feel if your sodium is too low or high though. Too low and you will end up light headed too high and you will feel a ton of pressure in your head (high blood pressure most of the time). Too high takes a lot of time and water to fix whereas too low is easily fixed by eating something with sodium in it such as roasted almonds or a few spoonfuls of peanut butter. The only people that really have to worry about too low sodium is athletes. I used to eat chicken and eggs but both contain cholesterol (egg yolks have a ton of cholesterol) and cholesterol is basically mucus and clogs you up not to mention the chicken meat has adrenaline in it (more than likely) which can cause anxiety or mood swings. As far as spirituality I base my whole lifestyle around the philosophy of Buddhism which I consider reality which is also one of the reasons why I don't eat meat. Just because someone talks about spirituality, sex, or w/e does not mean that they are not into it (that's the first time that I ever heard of that one). On June 22 2013 18:52 Schwopzi wrote: Hmm lol. All the vegans i know look like shit though. Pale and skinny like fuck oO. But w/e I guess people think being skinny is healthy these days. And people please, dont believe fruit and veggies contains more nutrition then meat. Just look at the macronutrients in meat compared to fruit and veggies. There's a reason meat contains so much calories you know, cus it provides so much building blocks for your body. Okay show me one valid article that shows that a piece of chicken or any other meat that is dead has more nutrition than a still alive pound of spinach or any fruit such as watermelon......where are the antioxidents, living enzymes, tons of vitamins, and fiber that you would get out of a piece of fruit or green leafy viegitables in meat? Compare a pound of bananas to a pound of chicken. Does chicken have a ton of electrolytes, tons of vitamins, anti oxidants, flavanoids, and is it living food? | ||
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GuiltyJerk
United States584 Posts
I might be a minority with this, but agonizing over so much just seems silly, if you eat a generally minimally processed diet, keep active and removed stressors as much as possible, you'll be able to get the most out of life You all may continue arguing now | ||
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On June 25 2013 11:30 GuiltyJerk wrote: There's a point where you compromise enjoying life for the slight potential of extending it by a few more years when you deal in this kind of bullshit. IMO keep it simple, eat minimally processed foods MOST OF THE TIME, make sure you eat enough veggies, but equally important is to enjoy yourself, you don't need to be that vegan weirdo or paleo outcast at some group outing, exceptions can be made (unless you're allergic or something) without tremendous long term harm. I might be a minority with this, but agonizing over so much just seems silly, if you eat a generally minimally processed diet, keep active and removed stressors as much as possible, you'll be able to get the most out of life You all may continue arguing now It's all about quality of life and morality and changing the mindset of others for the better. We can keep destroying the planet and doing acts of harm or wake up and do the right thing morally. Caring too much about being considered a "vegan weirdo" or "paleo weirdo" or calling someone that shows that someone has personal issues, is uncalled for, and one that is into either could more than likely care if someone calls them that. Labels are just labels, vocal atheists or religious people could be called weirdos as well but it's time we all grow a set and be vocal instead of being quiet and worrying about being labeled. | ||
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GuiltyJerk
United States584 Posts
On June 25 2013 11:36 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: It's all about quality of life and morality and changing the mindset of others for the better. We can keep destroying the planet and doing acts of harm or wake up and do the right thing morally. Caring too much about being considered a "vegan weirdo" or "paleo weirdo" or calling someone that shows that someone has personal issues, is uncalled for, and one that is into either could more than likely care if someone calls them that. Labels are just labels, vocal atheists or religious people could be called weirdos as well but it's time we all grow a set and be vocal instead of being quiet and worrying about being labeled. It's not about being labelled, it's about enjoying meat. You cannot make me not enjoy meat. It tastes good, it's fun to cook, it's fun to enjoy and share with others. Yes you probably consider me ignorant, and I'm okay with that | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
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decafchicken
United States20159 Posts
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ieatkids5
United States4628 Posts
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