EPTIEM Katowice 2024 - Page 3
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MJG
United Kingdom1375 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4958 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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Ciaus237
South Africa286 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1375 Posts
Cyclones won't be that big of a problem once they're figured out! /copium | ||
Poopi
France12906 Posts
On February 08 2024 22:41 WombaT wrote: I’d totally forgot Cure was on the Liquid roster. As they’re laying out this is a bad matchup for Clem historically, should be interesting. If there’s one type of player Clem can come unstuck against it’s guys who he can’t just overwhelm with speed, who are good at playing the patient game, covering their weak spots and grinding out a game of positioning. Cure’s definitely one of those guys, should be interesting Cure's playstyle is what makes him deadly in TvT and weak at TvZ, and conversely for Clem (even though his TvT has improved a bit), interestingly | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:01 Argonauta wrote: I will say it once more, cyclones are so silly now, but props for Cure to chasing there Stupid fucking patch that basically nobody wanted to go through, bizarre | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:06 Poopi wrote: Cure's playstyle is what makes him deadly in TvT and weak at TvZ, and conversely for Clem (even though his TvT has improved a bit), interestingly Yeah that’s a very good point. TvZ you can’t just sit back and hold terror and trade all the time, sometimes you just need the balls to go for a push. Whereas in TvT that can be detrimental | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17723 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:12 Die4Ever wrote: cyclone TvT is so dumb lol It’s probably the dumbest change ever made in SC2 history. The ‘balance council’, or at least those known members of the shadowy were all, to my knowledge against the Cyclone changes. The wider community wasn’t too enthused either. But yeah let’s just do it anyway for… reasons? I think we’ve had rougher periods balance wise, but I can’t recall the balance team in terms of an active change going so against opinion. Like they took too long to tweak BL/Infestor for example, but at least that was reticence in an existing game state. The cyclone change was an active change. | ||
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Poopi
France12906 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4958 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:21 Poopi wrote: The fact that cyclones are that problematic in TvT (where it's not really a balance issue per se) kinda proves how bad this change is in terms of design. Not a fan either, makes the match-up volatile for no good reason And I remember saying specifically in multiple threads alongside many other people that this is what would happen. When you make Cyclones available at a reactor it doesn't change much in the vZ and vP match up but it RADICALLY changes the TvT match up. We've seen before already and they got rid of it because no one liked it, I don't know why the balance council decided it would be different this time. We had zero evidence that it would. | ||
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Poopi
France12906 Posts
Hopefully for Clem it's just that Cure is a better TvT player, and not that Clem will choke yet another group stage though. Next opponent is Stats, Clem destroys him "on paper", so if he doesn't, nerves might be an issue later on | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1215 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:17 WombaT wrote: The ‘balance council’, or at least those known members of the shadowy were all, to my knowledge against the Cyclone changes. The wider community wasn’t too enthused either. Yeah, it was a situation where not a single member of the council ever publicly made a statement in favor of the change, and the few members who did publicly comment on it (Harstem) were opposed to it. | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:24 Poopi wrote: Let's go Cure!!! Hopefully for Clem it's just that Cure is a better TvT player, and not that Clem will choke yet another group stage though. Next opponent is Stats, Clem destroys him "on paper", so if he doesn't, nerves might be an issue later on Clem still waking up. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4958 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:24 Antithesis wrote: Yeah, it was a situation where not a single member of the council ever publicly made a statement in favor of the change, and the few members who did publicly comment on it (Harstem) were opposed to it. I’m genuinely baffled why they pushed it through, for this reason. Cyclone wars in TvT can be decided purely on what the AI locks on to, and humans just can’t override that no matter how good their control. vP it’s just another unit that can infinitely kite Toss units, wow that’s cool and dynamic. Awful, awful change in a patch that was generally not all that bad, but I have zero fucking clue how the Cyclone element made it through. | ||
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Poopi
France12906 Posts
On February 08 2024 23:30 WombaT wrote: I’m genuinely baffled why they pushed it through, for this reason. Cyclone wars in TvT can be decided purely on what the AI locks on to, and humans just can’t override that no matter how good their control. vP it’s just another unit that can infinitely kite Toss units, wow that’s cool and dynamic. Awful, awful change in a patch that was generally not all that bad, but I have zero fucking clue how the Cyclone element made it through. Also funny that there is literally a cyclone bug going on forever, where sometimes a cyclone becomes almost useless meat shield, that hasn't been fixed yet afaik. It could theoretically ruin a close game for someone | ||
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