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On February 14 2024 03:19 UnLarva wrote:
It's indeed silly. Everybody know already that GSL vs World wins don't count for anything if Korean player isn't winner. Besides how Koreans could've even prepare against him as it was Serral's first real showing at GLOBAL scene.
2nd win is even more silly. Serral had to bring his own sparring bud (Elazer) with him to get some real competition. And as we already know that doesn't count either.
Maru's first GSL win required him to beat Ragnarok, Keen, Gumiho, Dear, sos, Dark, and Stats. That is far more impressive and longer list. Especially since we're talking about 2018 Inno who was slumping and would have never made it into GSL vs the World with a traditional qualifier.
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On February 14 2024 03:34 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2024 03:19 UnLarva wrote:
It's indeed silly. Everybody know already that GSL vs World wins don't count for anything if Korean player isn't winner. Besides how Koreans could've even prepare against him as it was Serral's first real showing at GLOBAL scene.
2nd win is even more silly. Serral had to bring his own sparring bud (Elazer) with him to get some real competition. And as we already know that doesn't count either. Maru's first GSL win required him to beat Ragnarok, Keen, Gumiho, Dear, sos, Dark, and Stats. That is far more impressive and longer list. Especially since we're talking about 2018 Inno who was slumping and would have never made it into GSL vs the World with a traditional qualifier.
I don't disagree with you.
Just joking with Serral's GSL resume. No Koreans seemingly cared enough to give a shit thus those tournaments do not count. :D
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On February 14 2024 03:07 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2024 02:54 FFXthebest wrote:On February 13 2024 22:23 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Has Serral even shown if he can win an ESL KR cup, let alone GSL?
Sounds like he's trying to dodge. If he's the best why doesn't he just PROVE himself Serral already won 2 GSL’s. Went to Korea conquered and left His road to his first GSL was harder than any of Maru’s GSL. Now let that sink in Single elimination bracket of Kelazhur, out of form Inno that only qualified due to a popularity vote, Dark, and Stats is harder than any of Maru's GSL runs? That's just silly.
And which of Maru runs was harder? Cause looking at the bracket none of them are impressive
You listed Maru 1st GSL run, that’s similar to Serral first GSL as well in terms of competition.
I mean did you really list Keen sos and dear as hard competition?
Sos Maybe since he did shit on Maru that year in blizzcon, but then again Serral stomped that same sos in group stage.
Dear? Lol ya… no offense to my fellow toss but ya…
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On February 14 2024 04:15 FFXthebest wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2024 03:07 JJH777 wrote:On February 14 2024 02:54 FFXthebest wrote:On February 13 2024 22:23 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Has Serral even shown if he can win an ESL KR cup, let alone GSL?
Sounds like he's trying to dodge. If he's the best why doesn't he just PROVE himself Serral already won 2 GSL’s. Went to Korea conquered and left His road to his first GSL was harder than any of Maru’s GSL. Now let that sink in Single elimination bracket of Kelazhur, out of form Inno that only qualified due to a popularity vote, Dark, and Stats is harder than any of Maru's GSL runs? That's just silly. And which of Maru runs was harder? Cause looking at the bracket none of them are impressive You listed Maru 1st GSL run, that’s similar to Serral first GSL as well in terms of competition. I mean did you really list Keen sos and dear as hard competition? Sos Maybe since he did shit on Maru that year in blizzcon, but then again Serral stomped that same sos in group stage. Dear? Lol ya… no offense to my fellow toss but ya…
Any of the players I listed are harder to beat than Kelazhur. 2018 Dear and sos are harder than 2018 Inno especially since PvT was P favored in 18/19. 2018 Gumiho is around the same difficulty as 2018 Inno as well. GSL had a harder format and more players.
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His SSL run where he beat Dark and TY in groups then Leenock, Stats, and Dream in playoffs was savage. Or his GSL where he beat Solar, Rogue, Classic, and Zest. Beating Trap, Supernova, Symbol, Innovation, and Rain to win his first Starleague was very impressive as well.
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On February 13 2024 21:39 UnLarva wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2024 21:23 Kreuger wrote:On February 13 2024 20:55 Gantz023 wrote:
I'm waiting for even a small article analyzing the best IEM games and describing the incredible run by serral. with the traditional photo raising the trophy.
I think the biggest tournament of the year deserves it. They do it with smaller tournaments than this one.. IMO...TT Its only been two days. Atleast give them some time to actually write the article. Not something you whip up in a few hours if its to be a decent one Fair enough. There have been now about two years to write the article for his 2022 IEM Katowice World Championship victory, but we are still waiting. Simple fanboyism or parodic Korean elitism doesn't hurt anyone much on a level of commentary, or even narrative, but it really hurt when it is systemic in it's nature. Lack of World Championship article of 2022 on the winner would make sense if there wouldn't be myriads of threads about ESL weeklies, as example. Perceived publicationworthiness seems to depend on WHO is a winner in these parts, and that is what sucks.
I was about to write the same thing, in 2022 not a mention of the world champion.....REALLY?? WHY?? It's really strange, since they name the winners of the weekly ones. I hope they don't do the same this year
Two days is more than enough, many have already done their analysis on their channels/streams, and then the article loses weight.
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Northern Ireland24946 Posts
On February 14 2024 05:15 Gantz023 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2024 21:39 UnLarva wrote:On February 13 2024 21:23 Kreuger wrote:On February 13 2024 20:55 Gantz023 wrote:
I'm waiting for even a small article analyzing the best IEM games and describing the incredible run by serral. with the traditional photo raising the trophy.
I think the biggest tournament of the year deserves it. They do it with smaller tournaments than this one.. IMO...TT Its only been two days. Atleast give them some time to actually write the article. Not something you whip up in a few hours if its to be a decent one Fair enough. There have been now about two years to write the article for his 2022 IEM Katowice World Championship victory, but we are still waiting. Simple fanboyism or parodic Korean elitism doesn't hurt anyone much on a level of commentary, or even narrative, but it really hurt when it is systemic in it's nature. Lack of World Championship article of 2022 on the winner would make sense if there wouldn't be myriads of threads about ESL weeklies, as example. Perceived publicationworthiness seems to depend on WHO is a winner in these parts, and that is what sucks. I was about to write the same thing, in 2022 not a mention of the world champion.....REALLY?? WHY?? It's really strange, since they name the winners of the weekly ones. I hope they don't do the same this year Two days is more than enough, many have already done their analysis on their channels/streams, and then the article loses weight.
Does it really matter?
If someone does a deep dive and an interesting article, I’d read it. Given IEM release their replays I’d also love if someone like Harstem/Lambo/Harambo broke down the games piece by piece.
I don’t really need a ‘hey Serral won’ with a bracket recap, I don’t think it’s some mark of disrespect to not have one. Anyone who even vaguely follows the game knows Katowice was happening and Serral won it
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[/QUOTE]
Does it really matter?
If someone does a deep dive and an interesting article, I’d read it. Given IEM release their replays I’d also love if someone like Harstem/Lambo/Harambo broke down the games piece by piece.
I don’t really need a ‘hey Serral won’ with a bracket recap, I don’t think it’s some mark of disrespect to not have one. Anyone who even vaguely follows the game knows Katowice was happening and Serral won it [/QUOTE]
Of course it is, entering TL.net and seeing the champion lifting the trophy is one of the most expected in ALL sports, why not expect the same... it is done with all tournaments, why not here.
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Northern Ireland24946 Posts
On February 14 2024 05:50 Gantz023 wrote:
Does it really matter?
If someone does a deep dive and an interesting article, I’d read it. Given IEM release their replays I’d also love if someone like Harstem/Lambo/Harambo broke down the games piece by piece.
I don’t really need a ‘hey Serral won’ with a bracket recap, I don’t think it’s some mark of disrespect to not have one. Anyone who even vaguely follows the game knows Katowice was happening and Serral won it [/QUOTE]
Of course it is, entering TL.net and seeing the champion lifting the trophy is one of the most expected in ALL sports, why not expect the same... it is done with all tournaments, why not here.[/QUOTE]
Sure, I think there should be. But the denizens in the middle of the ‘Follow StarCraft 2’ and ‘are not aware Serral won Katowice’ Venn diagram is probably vanishingly small.
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Beware @gantz023 ! Begging for an article for World Championship in TL.net can cause accusations for being "entitled", and counter-demands to "Write it yourself".
It's more about historical, proper news source to me than anything else, but it feels genuinely odd that time and letters can be easily wasted for all kinds of never-heard tourneys and random qualifiers, but recapping historical, high prestige events can be difficult. Note that similar difficulties didn't exist with TIME/Oliveira Katowice win of 2023, so there must be something about Serral that makes ink try.
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On February 14 2024 06:15 WombaT wrote:
Sure, I think there should be. But the denizens in the middle of the ‘Follow StarCraft 2’ and ‘are not aware Serral won Katowice’ Venn diagram is probably vanishingly small.
You are a decent writer. You post a lot and those post mainly contain useful information. You have decent grammer and it's easy to follow your train of throught.
Ever considered to be a writer for TL.net? Not sure what that entails but to me it looks like you fit the profile.
I'd give your recaps/ hype articles a read. Promise :D
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Northern Ireland24946 Posts
On February 14 2024 17:20 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2024 06:15 WombaT wrote:
Sure, I think there should be. But the denizens in the middle of the ‘Follow StarCraft 2’ and ‘are not aware Serral won Katowice’ Venn diagram is probably vanishingly small. You are a decent writer. You post a lot and those post mainly contain useful information. You have decent grammer and it's easy to follow your train of throught. Ever considered to be a writer for TL.net? Not sure what that entails but to me it looks like you fit the profile. I'd give your recaps/ hype articles a read. Promise :D
Why thank you sir, I do try! Oddly enough I’d made enquiries about taking my ‘talents’ out from making 100 posts a day on here and doing something a bit more ambitious.
Katowice is that rare beast of a tournament where I watched every minute of it, outside of simultaneous group matches ofc, and even then I tried to bounce between.
If there isn’t a plan to do a recap/writeup within the existing writers I’d absolutely be down for giving it a crack, if the relevant folks wanna PM me 
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Yeah, WombaT, I'd also welcome a tournament recap or similar articles written by you. Your posts tend to be well-balanced, fair, and informed.
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I also would love a WombaT recap
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I love reading everything related to SC2, which is why I was waiting for even a small IEM article. It would be a pleasure to read you.
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WombaT gogo, I choose you!!
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France12771 Posts
On February 14 2024 04:33 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2024 04:15 FFXthebest wrote:On February 14 2024 03:07 JJH777 wrote:On February 14 2024 02:54 FFXthebest wrote:On February 13 2024 22:23 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Has Serral even shown if he can win an ESL KR cup, let alone GSL?
Sounds like he's trying to dodge. If he's the best why doesn't he just PROVE himself Serral already won 2 GSL’s. Went to Korea conquered and left His road to his first GSL was harder than any of Maru’s GSL. Now let that sink in Single elimination bracket of Kelazhur, out of form Inno that only qualified due to a popularity vote, Dark, and Stats is harder than any of Maru's GSL runs? That's just silly. And which of Maru runs was harder? Cause looking at the bracket none of them are impressive You listed Maru 1st GSL run, that’s similar to Serral first GSL as well in terms of competition. I mean did you really list Keen sos and dear as hard competition? Sos Maybe since he did shit on Maru that year in blizzcon, but then again Serral stomped that same sos in group stage. Dear? Lol ya… no offense to my fellow toss but ya… Any of the players I listed are harder to beat than Kelazhur. 2018 Dear and sos are harder than 2018 Inno especially since PvT was P favored in 18/19. 2018 Gumiho is around the same difficulty as 2018 Inno as well. GSL had a harder format and more players.
I mean P in late 2018 specifically was « weak » vs Terran cyclone cheeses that had a lot of variations / micro potential, so Maru was able to avoid macro games which were P favored
However sOs helped him craft that so he had no real chance to win with the cyclone bullshit, and he got stuck trying to play weird things instead of « trying macro »
But sOs losing badly to Serral doesn’t mean much since it’s 1) a different match-up 2) imo, PvZ was clearly Z favored at the time, and Rogue would have beaten Stats too (maybe in a less macro way, but he would be the favorite)
And yeah Serral 2018 EU runs aren’t that impressive outside of Reynor who was already strong at the time. Has, MaNa and I don’t remember who were decent players but most KR players would have beaten them too, not just the top KR players
Edit: and lol Dear might no be a protoss legend like MC, Zest, Stats, sOs, and to a lesser extent Classic and herO, but he was pretty strong at certain periods. Legit scary
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I want to see Wombat's top 10-15 GOAT list !
I want to see Poopi's too
I'm actually a bit sad that we got a GOAT article list in 2015, but only getting a new one now in 2024.
It feels like there could have been 1 around 2020, but we missed out on it
I'd like to see someone make one of those ELO visual comparison videos (with the line graph showing where the top players are) based on Aligulac or whatever, there's been some in the past but i want one including the last several years
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On February 15 2024 22:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I want to see Wombat's top 10-15 GOAT list !
I want to see Poopi's too
I'm actually a bit sad that we got a GOAT article list in 2015, but only getting a new one now in 2024.
It feels like there could have been 1 around 2020, but we missed out on it
I'd like to see someone make one of those ELO visual comparison videos (with the line graph showing where the top players are) based on Aligulac or whatever, there's been some in the past but i want one including the last several years
There was this: https://tl.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/544242-team-liquid-greatest-of-all-time-contest
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Northern Ireland24946 Posts
On February 15 2024 22:24 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I want to see Wombat's top 10-15 GOAT list !
I want to see Poopi's too
I'm actually a bit sad that we got a GOAT article list in 2015, but only getting a new one now in 2024.
It feels like there could have been 1 around 2020, but we missed out on it
I'd like to see someone make one of those ELO visual comparison videos (with the line graph showing where the top players are) based on Aligulac or whatever, there's been some in the past but i want one including the last several years
I may if TL survives the riots on its streets if Mvp isn’t on Miz’s list!
If Miz’s has an attempt at some objective methodology that’s transparently communicated, mine would be just pure, pure vibes baby
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EPT
