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If Ryung wins another game I will lose my mind
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Great work Ryung, at least you took a map off Rogue. At least he won't get 3-0'ed.
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Ryung is pulling some insane work, I'm incredibly impressed !
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Rogue thought he would 5-0, but now he could only go 4-1 in this match
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Hidden base next map? Trying to think of what Ryung can do to close the skill gap.
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On February 27 2022 01:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. If the liquipedia entry is to be trusted, the EU ESL Cups performance is: Terran: 72 Heromarine: 40 Clem: 28 THE DOMINANCE OF THE PROTOSS RACE, WEEK AFTER WEEK: 23 Zerg: 16 Showtime: 14 Reynor: 12
I think he's referring to the number of Protoss entrants into ESL Cups. They don't usually win, though, so it's pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether Protoss is underpowered at the highest level. Just like the predominance of Protoss in GM is irrelevant.
I don't even think it's that complex of a problem. There are just phases of the game where Protoss is very fragile bc their ability to survive depends on a few relatively clunky and hard-to-micro units like Colossus, Immortal, Carrier, HT, Disruptor. So even the top players end up losing games in embarrassing fashion.
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I dont even mind of Ryung throw in a fake proxy and force Rogue to overreact
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Northern Ireland26360 Posts
On February 27 2022 01:24 JJH777 wrote:
Hidden base next map? Trying to think of what Ryung can do to close the skill gap.
If only Golden Wall was still in the pool damnit, or something with similar architecture.
TY in fairness is like Ryung+, similar strengths and weaknesses. He concocted some really nasty committed pushes in his latter GSL runs, probably Ryung’s best bet outside of outright cheese.
If he goes for a mechanical slugfest a la Maru or Clem it’ll be beyond tough for him
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 27 2022 01:22 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 01:19 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:10 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:08 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 27 2022 00:59 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 00:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 26 2022 22:13 parksonsc wrote:
The Korean protoss really dont know much about HM. If they did, they would have just defended and tried to go late game everytime, since HM's TvP late game is pretty much tier-b level. It's not just Heromarine's late game that is weak against Protoss, pretty much all the pro Terrans are weak against late game Protoss, if the Protoss player has a decent late game like Trap or Stats. We just saw that Maru can't really beat late game Protoss either when he lost to Zoun in the late game yesterday. IMO, it's just Zest that doesn't have a great PvsT late game because Zest has always relied on timing attacks. Cure won GSL Season 3 because he knew Zest wasn't good at PvsT late game, so Cure just defended Zest's all-ins. In the same GSL Season 3, Cure knew that Trap was unbeatable in PvsT late game so Cure did timing attacks on Trap to stop him from getting there. If you look at Protoss as a whole, Protoss have been winning a lot of Premier level tournaments from 2020 to 2022. Zest just won the last GSL Super Tournament. And Trap won 6 Premier level tournaments in the last 1.5 years, including TSL 7, Next S1, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 1, DH Last Chance 2021, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 2, 2020 GSL Super Tournament 2:  Premier Tournaments. Also, from 2020 to 2022, Zest got 2nd place multiple times in Premier level tournaments, so he was in the position to win it. Finally, the top 50 EU GM was 68% Protoss when I checked about 2 months ago (I counted 34 Protoss in the top 50 EU GM). I think the % of Protoss in the top 50 EU GM has dropped since then, but it's still very high. EU ESL Cup week in and week out is dominated by Protoss entries. That would be very bad for the future pro scene if the makeup of the top 50 EU GM slanted even more Protoss. I was with you until you brought up GM ladder and ESL cups which don't matter at all They do though. Because with the Korea pro scene dying out when the existing top Korean pros retire, the future of SC2 pros are EU players. You can already see the shift occurring, with more and more EU pros dominating at the top. The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. So it's Protoss players that are getting that needed top tier practice between the semi-pro to pro level at the ESL EU cup. I think the snapshot of the players entering the ESL EU cup today, will become a snapshot of what the pro scene will look like in the future, especially with EU pros becoming more important in SC2 as the top Korean pros retire. isnt the EU cup dominated by 2 terrans winning like 75% of them? what use is it when 100 mid gm protoss apply for the top of the race that is underperforming hard Heromarine and Clem as well as the top Zergs are old and will retire soon, source for clem gabe reynor elazer lambo and serral planning to retire? their really old age
Clem and Reynor are 19, Serral is 23 and HM is 24 and they are making like 100k$ a year... (Well less for HM, but still some pretty good money)
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On February 27 2022 01:29 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 01:22 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:19 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:10 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:08 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 27 2022 00:59 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 00:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 26 2022 22:13 parksonsc wrote:
The Korean protoss really dont know much about HM. If they did, they would have just defended and tried to go late game everytime, since HM's TvP late game is pretty much tier-b level. It's not just Heromarine's late game that is weak against Protoss, pretty much all the pro Terrans are weak against late game Protoss, if the Protoss player has a decent late game like Trap or Stats. We just saw that Maru can't really beat late game Protoss either when he lost to Zoun in the late game yesterday. IMO, it's just Zest that doesn't have a great PvsT late game because Zest has always relied on timing attacks. Cure won GSL Season 3 because he knew Zest wasn't good at PvsT late game, so Cure just defended Zest's all-ins. In the same GSL Season 3, Cure knew that Trap was unbeatable in PvsT late game so Cure did timing attacks on Trap to stop him from getting there. If you look at Protoss as a whole, Protoss have been winning a lot of Premier level tournaments from 2020 to 2022. Zest just won the last GSL Super Tournament. And Trap won 6 Premier level tournaments in the last 1.5 years, including TSL 7, Next S1, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 1, DH Last Chance 2021, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 2, 2020 GSL Super Tournament 2: Premier Tournaments. Also, from 2020 to 2022, Zest got 2nd place multiple times in Premier level tournaments, so he was in the position to win it. Finally, the top 50 EU GM was 68% Protoss when I checked about 2 months ago (I counted 34 Protoss in the top 50 EU GM). I think the % of Protoss in the top 50 EU GM has dropped since then, but it's still very high. EU ESL Cup week in and week out is dominated by Protoss entries. That would be very bad for the future pro scene if the makeup of the top 50 EU GM slanted even more Protoss. I was with you until you brought up GM ladder and ESL cups which don't matter at all They do though. Because with the Korea pro scene dying out when the existing top Korean pros retire, the future of SC2 pros are EU players. You can already see the shift occurring, with more and more EU pros dominating at the top. The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. So it's Protoss players that are getting that needed top tier practice between the semi-pro to pro level at the ESL EU cup. I think the snapshot of the players entering the ESL EU cup today, will become a snapshot of what the pro scene will look like in the future, especially with EU pros becoming more important in SC2 as the top Korean pros retire. isnt the EU cup dominated by 2 terrans winning like 75% of them? what use is it when 100 mid gm protoss apply for the top of the race that is underperforming hard Heromarine and Clem as well as the top Zergs are old and will retire soon, source for clem gabe reynor elazer lambo and serral planning to retire? their really old age Clem and Reynor are 19, Serral is 23 and HM is 24 and they are making like 100k$ a year...
I think that's the joke
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On February 27 2022 01:25 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 01:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. If the liquipedia entry is to be trusted, the EU ESL Cups performance is: Terran: 72 Heromarine: 40 Clem: 28 THE DOMINANCE OF THE PROTOSS RACE, WEEK AFTER WEEK: 23 Zerg: 16 Showtime: 14 Reynor: 12 I think he's referring to the number of Protoss entrants into ESL Cups. They don't usually win, though, so it's pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether Protoss is underpowered at the highest level. Just like the predominance of Protoss in GM is irrelevant. I don't even think it's that complex of a problem. There are just phases of the game where Protoss is very fragile bc their ability to survive depends on a few relatively clunky and hard-to-micro units like Colossus, Immortal, Carrier, HT, Disruptor. So even the top players end up losing games in embarrassing fashion.
I think there are probably a lot of factors involved, but I agree that Protoss' reliance on expensive, hard to replace tech units is a big part of it.
Weirdly enough, I was pushing that point of view ages ago when Khaydarin Amulet was removed.
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 27 2022 01:29 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 01:29 Nakajin wrote:On February 27 2022 01:22 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:19 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:10 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:08 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 27 2022 00:59 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 00:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 26 2022 22:13 parksonsc wrote:
The Korean protoss really dont know much about HM. If they did, they would have just defended and tried to go late game everytime, since HM's TvP late game is pretty much tier-b level. It's not just Heromarine's late game that is weak against Protoss, pretty much all the pro Terrans are weak against late game Protoss, if the Protoss player has a decent late game like Trap or Stats. We just saw that Maru can't really beat late game Protoss either when he lost to Zoun in the late game yesterday. IMO, it's just Zest that doesn't have a great PvsT late game because Zest has always relied on timing attacks. Cure won GSL Season 3 because he knew Zest wasn't good at PvsT late game, so Cure just defended Zest's all-ins. In the same GSL Season 3, Cure knew that Trap was unbeatable in PvsT late game so Cure did timing attacks on Trap to stop him from getting there. If you look at Protoss as a whole, Protoss have been winning a lot of Premier level tournaments from 2020 to 2022. Zest just won the last GSL Super Tournament. And Trap won 6 Premier level tournaments in the last 1.5 years, including TSL 7, Next S1, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 1, DH Last Chance 2021, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 2, 2020 GSL Super Tournament 2: Premier Tournaments. Also, from 2020 to 2022, Zest got 2nd place multiple times in Premier level tournaments, so he was in the position to win it. Finally, the top 50 EU GM was 68% Protoss when I checked about 2 months ago (I counted 34 Protoss in the top 50 EU GM). I think the % of Protoss in the top 50 EU GM has dropped since then, but it's still very high. EU ESL Cup week in and week out is dominated by Protoss entries. That would be very bad for the future pro scene if the makeup of the top 50 EU GM slanted even more Protoss. I was with you until you brought up GM ladder and ESL cups which don't matter at all They do though. Because with the Korea pro scene dying out when the existing top Korean pros retire, the future of SC2 pros are EU players. You can already see the shift occurring, with more and more EU pros dominating at the top. The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. So it's Protoss players that are getting that needed top tier practice between the semi-pro to pro level at the ESL EU cup. I think the snapshot of the players entering the ESL EU cup today, will become a snapshot of what the pro scene will look like in the future, especially with EU pros becoming more important in SC2 as the top Korean pros retire. isnt the EU cup dominated by 2 terrans winning like 75% of them? what use is it when 100 mid gm protoss apply for the top of the race that is underperforming hard Heromarine and Clem as well as the top Zergs are old and will retire soon, source for clem gabe reynor elazer lambo and serral planning to retire? their really old age Clem and Reynor are 19, Serral is 23 and HM is 24 and they are making like 100k$ a year... I think that's the joke
Oh, well I felt for it lol
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On February 27 2022 01:29 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 01:29 Nakajin wrote:On February 27 2022 01:22 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:19 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:10 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 01:08 Andi_Goldberger wrote:On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 27 2022 00:59 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2022 00:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:On February 26 2022 22:13 parksonsc wrote:
The Korean protoss really dont know much about HM. If they did, they would have just defended and tried to go late game everytime, since HM's TvP late game is pretty much tier-b level. It's not just Heromarine's late game that is weak against Protoss, pretty much all the pro Terrans are weak against late game Protoss, if the Protoss player has a decent late game like Trap or Stats. We just saw that Maru can't really beat late game Protoss either when he lost to Zoun in the late game yesterday. IMO, it's just Zest that doesn't have a great PvsT late game because Zest has always relied on timing attacks. Cure won GSL Season 3 because he knew Zest wasn't good at PvsT late game, so Cure just defended Zest's all-ins. In the same GSL Season 3, Cure knew that Trap was unbeatable in PvsT late game so Cure did timing attacks on Trap to stop him from getting there. If you look at Protoss as a whole, Protoss have been winning a lot of Premier level tournaments from 2020 to 2022. Zest just won the last GSL Super Tournament. And Trap won 6 Premier level tournaments in the last 1.5 years, including TSL 7, Next S1, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 1, DH Last Chance 2021, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 2, 2020 GSL Super Tournament 2: Premier Tournaments. Also, from 2020 to 2022, Zest got 2nd place multiple times in Premier level tournaments, so he was in the position to win it. Finally, the top 50 EU GM was 68% Protoss when I checked about 2 months ago (I counted 34 Protoss in the top 50 EU GM). I think the % of Protoss in the top 50 EU GM has dropped since then, but it's still very high. EU ESL Cup week in and week out is dominated by Protoss entries. That would be very bad for the future pro scene if the makeup of the top 50 EU GM slanted even more Protoss. I was with you until you brought up GM ladder and ESL cups which don't matter at all They do though. Because with the Korea pro scene dying out when the existing top Korean pros retire, the future of SC2 pros are EU players. You can already see the shift occurring, with more and more EU pros dominating at the top. The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. So it's Protoss players that are getting that needed top tier practice between the semi-pro to pro level at the ESL EU cup. I think the snapshot of the players entering the ESL EU cup today, will become a snapshot of what the pro scene will look like in the future, especially with EU pros becoming more important in SC2 as the top Korean pros retire. isnt the EU cup dominated by 2 terrans winning like 75% of them? what use is it when 100 mid gm protoss apply for the top of the race that is underperforming hard Heromarine and Clem as well as the top Zergs are old and will retire soon, source for clem gabe reynor elazer lambo and serral planning to retire? their really old age Clem and Reynor are 19, Serral is 23 and HM is 24 and they are making like 100k$ a year... I think that's the joke
I was considering putting an /s there but I thought it would ruin the joke
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I expected a much easier match for Rogue. Ryung is giving him a run for his money !
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Northern Ireland26360 Posts
 ouble Post*
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That was probably the most unfortunate timing for mutas to get into Ryung's main.
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Ryung playing super safe, and his performances have been much more better than I thought he could ever play. I'm super impressed.
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when he's on point, Rogue's ability to always keep his mutas active is just phenomenal
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On February 27 2022 01:35 buzz_bender wrote:
Ryung playing super safe, and his performances have been much more better than I thought he could ever play. I'm super impressed.
same
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I mean Rogue will probably still win in the end but Ryung is not getting bopped, far from it, and honestly I kinda expected a very one-sided match
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EPT
