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[IEM] Katowice 2022 - Knockout Stage - Day 1 - Page 15

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 67 Next
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8990 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-26 16:45:54
February 26 2022 16:44 GMT
#281
Ryung better not give Maru to many coaching advice if that's the kind of builds he think make sense lol

Great run for him though, he better take Armani eating out back in Korea
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3135 Posts
February 26 2022 16:45 GMT
#282
Ryung really impressed me with his run in this tournament, he's made me a fan out of someone who only barely remembered who he was
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
yoshi245
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2974 Posts
February 26 2022 16:45 GMT
#283
Ryung had an uphill climb throughout this tourney. Had to face Dark, Serral, and Rogue. Hoping to see him coach Maru to get past Serral later on.
"Numbers speak about the past, not the present." -Thorzain
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3556 Posts
February 26 2022 16:45 GMT
#284
On February 27 2022 01:44 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 01:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week.


If the liquipedia entry is to be trusted, the EU ESL Cups performance is:


Entries. Learn English buddy.

Wow what a counter, so good, flame their non native language that will surely show them
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3135 Posts
February 26 2022 16:46 GMT
#285
On February 27 2022 01:45 darklycid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 01:44 xelnaga_empire wrote:
On February 27 2022 01:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week.


If the liquipedia entry is to be trusted, the EU ESL Cups performance is:


Entries. Learn English buddy.

Wow what a counter, so good, flame their non native language that will surely show them

lol it's not even incorrect English
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3135 Posts
February 26 2022 16:47 GMT
#286
confirmed all the Protoss sacrificed themselves willingly to pave the way for Rogue's ascension
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
February 26 2022 16:47 GMT
#287
with no P remaining, the bracket is actually as "not bad" as it gets. Solar - HM will be very interesting, those players weren't necessarily top contenders so they will fight like their lives depend on it for the ro4 spot. I love Rogue chances.
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3135 Posts
February 26 2022 16:48 GMT
#288
unusual to see Rogue this emotional
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
February 26 2022 16:48 GMT
#289
On February 27 2022 01:43 Captain Peabody wrote:
yeah there's definitely more than that going on (player mindset, player pool in Korea, diminishing strength of all-ins over time, balance of defense vs offense, increase in basic skills across the board), but if you look at the times when the very top Protoss players just lose while looking like idiots, it does seem to usually come down to Zerg/Terran coming in with a big ol' ball of insanely microable, replaceable units and the Protoss trying to wedge their 2 irreplaceable Colossi into exactly the right spot or hit a single disruptor shot or storm.

I don't think reliance on fewer tech units is bad in itself (it's one of the things I like about Protoss), but I do think the balance of tech vs gateway units, how clunky and un-microable a lot of those tech units are, how weak they become when the opponent counters them or micros against them, how easy they are to replace, etc, seems off at the moment and is a big factor contributing to the inability of the very top Protoss to perform at the very top level.


Right, it wouldn't be an issue if Protoss' ability to attack, expand or get map control was dependent on those few tech units, but the fact that they straight up die to the loss of those tech units is an issue. I wish it would just translate to loss of map control while they turtled and rebuilt.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16124 Posts
February 26 2022 16:49 GMT
#290
So Ro12

3-0, 3-1,3-1,3-1

aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
xelnaga_empire
Profile Joined March 2012
627 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-26 16:50:30
February 26 2022 16:50 GMT
#291
On February 27 2022 01:08 darklycid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
On February 27 2022 00:59 Charoisaur wrote:
On February 27 2022 00:57 xelnaga_empire wrote:
On February 26 2022 22:13 parksonsc wrote:
The Korean protoss really dont know much about HM. If they did, they would have just defended and tried to go late game everytime, since HM's TvP late game is pretty much tier-b level.


It's not just Heromarine's late game that is weak against Protoss, pretty much all the pro Terrans are weak against late game Protoss, if the Protoss player has a decent late game like Trap or Stats. We just saw that Maru can't really beat late game Protoss either when he lost to Zoun in the late game yesterday. IMO, it's just Zest that doesn't have a great PvsT late game because Zest has always relied on timing attacks. Cure won GSL Season 3 because he knew Zest wasn't good at PvsT late game, so Cure just defended Zest's all-ins. In the same GSL Season 3, Cure knew that Trap was unbeatable in PvsT late game so Cure did timing attacks on Trap to stop him from getting there.

If you look at Protoss as a whole, Protoss have been winning a lot of Premier level tournaments from 2020 to 2022. Zest just won the last GSL Super Tournament. And Trap won 6 Premier level tournaments in the last 1.5 years, including TSL 7, Next S1, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 1, DH Last Chance 2021, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 2, 2020 GSL Super Tournament 2: (Wiki)Premier Tournaments. Also, from 2020 to 2022, Zest got 2nd place multiple times in Premier level tournaments, so he was in the position to win it.

Finally, the top 50 EU GM was 68% Protoss when I checked about 2 months ago (I counted 34 Protoss in the top 50 EU GM). I think the % of Protoss in the top 50 EU GM has dropped since then, but it's still very high. EU ESL Cup week in and week out is dominated by Protoss entries. That would be very bad for the future pro scene if the makeup of the top 50 EU GM slanted even more Protoss.

I was with you until you brought up GM ladder and ESL cups which don't matter at all


They do though. Because with the Korea pro scene dying out when the existing top Korean pros retire, the future of SC2 pros are EU players. You can already see the shift occurring, with more and more EU pros dominating at the top. The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week. So it's Protoss players that are getting that needed top tier practice between the semi-pro to pro level at the ESL EU cup. I think the snapshot of the players entering the ESL EU cup today, will become a snapshot of what the pro scene will look like in the future, especially with EU pros becoming more important in SC2 as the top Korean pros retire.

Protoss actually op, quick nerf it


Like I said, if you look at Protoss as a whole, Protoss have been winning a lot of Premier level tournaments from 2020 to 2022. Zest just won the last GSL Super Tournament. And Trap won 6 Premier level tournaments in the last 1.5 years, including TSL 7, Next S1, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 1, DH Last Chance 2021, 2021 GSL Super Tournament 2, 2020 GSL Super Tournament 2: liquipedia.net


And if you look at the Premier tournament page, Protoss had plenty of second place as well in 2021. Just look at the 2021 stats, Zest, Trap, and Zoun made 2nd place multiple times and were in a position to win 1st place. Conversely, look at Terran in 2021 on that Premier tournaments page. Terran won far less Premier tournaments in 2021, and also had fewer 2nd place appearances.
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
February 26 2022 16:50 GMT
#292
On February 27 2022 01:44 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 01:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week.


If the liquipedia entry is to be trusted, the EU ESL Cups performance is:


Entries. Learn English buddy.


Your mother's been giving me classes.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
February 26 2022 16:50 GMT
#293
On February 27 2022 01:49 Vindicare605 wrote:
So Ro12

3-0, 3-1,3-1,3-1


hopefully we get only 3-2s in ro8
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16124 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-26 16:51:29
February 26 2022 16:51 GMT
#294
BTW. As nice as it was for Ryung to advance to the Ro12 and everything. Lemme remind everyone that he only won 2 series post open bracket and both of them were TvT's to TIME and to Special.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
February 26 2022 16:52 GMT
#295
On February 27 2022 01:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
BTW. As nice as it was for Ryung to advance to the Ro12 and everything. Lemme remind everyone that he only won 2 series post open bracket and both of them were TvT's to TIME and to Special.

agree but
1) no one expected him to fight his way out of the open bracket, especially with beating the likes of herO and such
2) he never looked silly (ok, maybe that last game, the idea was fun but it looked very bad )
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8990 Posts
February 26 2022 16:53 GMT
#296
On February 27 2022 01:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
BTW. As nice as it was for Ryung to advance to the Ro12 and everything. Lemme remind everyone that he only won series post open bracket and both of them were TvT's to TIME and to Special.


So he won his two tvt and he is also the only active terran player with a winning record (and even a winning streak!) vs Maru.

NV's ace must be super releived Rogue saved him that match up!
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4420 Posts
February 26 2022 16:53 GMT
#297
On February 27 2022 01:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
BTW. As nice as it was for Ryung to advance to the Ro12 and everything. Lemme remind everyone that he only won 2 series post open bracket and both of them were TvT's to TIME and to Special.


Yeah, I loved seeing him here and given his overall history he's very deserving but there's no question he was the beneficiary of just how weak group B was. He would not have advanced in any other group.
xelnaga_empire
Profile Joined March 2012
627 Posts
February 26 2022 16:53 GMT
#298
On February 27 2022 01:50 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 01:44 xelnaga_empire wrote:
On February 27 2022 01:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On February 27 2022 01:03 xelnaga_empire wrote:
The ESL EU Cup is dominated by Protoss entries, week after week.


If the liquipedia entry is to be trusted, the EU ESL Cups performance is:


Entries. Learn English buddy.


Your mother's been giving me classes.


You have classes with your mother in your bedroom? Ew, gross.
pandorasheep
Profile Joined February 2022
73 Posts
February 26 2022 16:57 GMT
#299
Who are the top Korean Protoss players now? People like Rain, MC, Stats, Zest, Trap, Classic fell off after the military or are going to the military or are in it now. When Zest and Trap need to enlist, are there any championship contenders left for Protoss? Sorry, but I just don't see Zoun being it. Unless one of the recently discharged Protosses like Classic can get back into shape, I just don't see any other Protoss representing the race at top tournaments in top places like at least round of 4.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8990 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-26 16:57:33
February 26 2022 16:57 GMT
#300
Are we getting Spodek tomorrow by the way?
I want to stole that CSGO crowd

Also Ravi: Starcraft 2- Queen Elizabeth 2, may be the most depressing comparaison
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
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