• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:45
CEST 07:45
KST 14:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!38Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
Best Games Kespa era BCA KCU TANGERANG Telp:08218200233 Your past clans BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Small VOD Thread 2.0 Escore Tournament - Season 3 BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9163 users

[WTL 2021] Winter - Week 11 - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3559 Posts
December 22 2021 14:41 GMT
#81
Byul 2-0ing byun :0
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States467 Posts
December 22 2021 14:50 GMT
#82
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.

However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.
WardiTV
Profile Joined September 2016
607 Posts
December 22 2021 16:29 GMT
#83
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.
Commentator
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 16:47:22
December 22 2021 16:32 GMT
#84
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.

However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


Admin did confirm that “3 rep chance for no reason” rule exists, and yes TL has ran out of their chance before this round. Admin said considerung this might be the most important match for two teams in regular season, he wanted to deal with it in a humanized way, by not forbidding TL to send clem. So he agreed to help TL to negotiate. Therefore, TL should take the risk (and they did accept): either GP agree TL's timetable to play against Clem(which obviously benifits TL), or GP agree TL to change player and take a little bit advantage (but not as big as a 1-0 start, in this case it's that GP can choose a player to play against, plus 1 more round server advantage).

Admin emphasized that both two teams were satisfied with the result, there was no dispute at all. What wardi said in stream yesterday was nothing more than a misinterpretation.
WardiTV
Profile Joined September 2016
607 Posts
December 22 2021 17:05 GMT
#85
On December 23 2021 01:32 lepricon1992 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.

However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


Admin did confirm that “3 rep chance for no reason” rule exists, and yes TL has ran out of their chance before this round. Admin said considerung this might be the most important match for two teams in regular season, he wanted to deal with it in a humanized way, by not forbidding TL to send clem. So he agreed to help TL to negotiate. Therefore, TL should take the risk (and they did accept): either GP agree TL's timetable to play against Clem(which obviously benifits TL), or GP agree TL to change player and take a little bit advantage (but not as big as a 1-0 start, in this case it's that GP can choose a player to play against, plus 1 more round server advantage).

Admin emphasized that both two teams were satisfied with the result, there was no dispute at all. What wardi said in stream yesterday was nothing more than a misinterpretation.


I mean I had multiple Liquid players telling me they had not used their three replay chances, kind of hard to misinterpret that. I repeated what I was told.
Commentator
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8990 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 17:11:21
December 22 2021 17:06 GMT
#86
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.


The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)

I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.

The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)

Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
WardiTV
Profile Joined September 2016
607 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 17:20:01
December 22 2021 17:18 GMT
#87
On December 23 2021 02:06 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.


The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)

I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.

The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)

Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.


It would change a lot - why would you accept reschedules if you don't have to and you could force your opponents teams to be missing players? At a guess I would say ~50% of matches this season have included some maps from replays, so it's a pretty huge chunk to just say "get on with it"

And I don't think they would lose Ryung, I think it's an issue with it being the end of the season, WTL were willing to change the match schedule to help. Mostly it's not a problem as when players are told they need to play early with enough time to do so, everybody can, because pro players availability is very high.
Commentator
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8990 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 23:09:34
December 22 2021 18:08 GMT
#88
On December 23 2021 02:18 WardiTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2021 02:06 Nakajin wrote:
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.


The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)

I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.

The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)

Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.


It would change a lot - why would you accept reschedules if you don't have to and you could force your opponents teams to be missing players? At a guess I would say ~50% of matches this season have included some maps from replays, so it's a pretty huge chunk to just say "get on with it"

And I don't think they would lose Ryung, I think it's an issue with it being the end of the season, WTL were willing to change the match schedule to help. Mostly it's not a problem as when players are told they need to play early with enough time to do so, everybody can, because pro players availability is very high.


Heh, I think if players needed to be there we would'nt have nearly has many match from replay.
We had a decade when players needed to fly around the world to phisically be at tournament and for the most part everyone made it work just fine. GSTL and Proleague players too were there week in week out for years, and when sometime they couldn't be available because of another tournament or something else, their team just send someone else. I have a hard time beleiving that so many players can't fit a 2-3 hours spot in their schedule once a week. (And not even once a week since they don't have to play each week)

I honestly don't think teams would go to the hassle to refuse every rescheduling offer, just as right now they don't try to reschedule to gain an advantage on preparation time or to stuck an adversary.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 19:28:10
December 22 2021 19:25 GMT
#89
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3513 Posts
December 23 2021 03:12 GMT
#90
Yeah, I mean somehow the ability to replay has become a privilege / right for teams, while imo it should be treated as a favor outside of direct tournament schedule conflict and/or emergency situation. Teams and player should be expected to clear their own schedule first on the day of the tournament, not the other way around. I also understand in this case, its the Holiday season and not everyone can be available to play, another "weakness" to the Organizer to schedule the last round at this point.
Sui
Profile Joined August 2019
26 Posts
December 23 2021 04:40 GMT
#91
It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn

Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6331 Posts
December 23 2021 04:48 GMT
#92
Can confirm both.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2465 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-23 10:27:55
December 23 2021 10:26 GMT
#93
On December 23 2021 13:40 Sui wrote:
It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn

Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc


Qlash needs to add Terran and Protoss players in their team roster. Are they any remaining player who haven't sign up yet for a team?
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
buzz_bender
Profile Joined August 2019
446 Posts
December 23 2021 12:05 GMT
#94
On December 23 2021 19:26 swarminfestor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2021 13:40 Sui wrote:
It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn

Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc


Qlash needs to add Terran and Protoss players in their team roster. Are they any remaining player who haven't sign up yet for a team?


I'm sure they can have an all-Zerg team That'll be fun to watch...... -_-'
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3513 Posts
December 23 2021 12:13 GMT
#95
How likely are the big names in Europe willing to move team at this point to get a shot at WTL? Showtime, Heromarine and of course Serral are who we are talking about. Otherwise, Reynor can be the ace player with other Ro32 players from DH EU.
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-23 13:53:29
December 23 2021 13:51 GMT
#96
Say goodbye to IG.
There will be little chance for them to come back to the main level event next year since Qlash confirmed joining the battle.
GGWP
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States467 Posts
December 23 2021 15:04 GMT
#97
That game 1, herO doing herO things
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6331 Posts
December 23 2021 15:18 GMT
#98
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
105 Posts
December 23 2021 15:23 GMT
#99
On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.


I think xiaose means this season, not next.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6331 Posts
December 23 2021 15:28 GMT
#100
On December 24 2021 00:23 lepricon1992 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.


I think xiaose means this season, not next.

Oh that's even better then. Didn't catch the first half.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
16:00
CSLAN Day 1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 146
StarCraft: Brood War
Pusan 170
Bale 31
Noble 30
Icarus 8
Dota 2
The International49761
singsing2003
Fuzer 243
NeuroSwarm172
League of Legends
JimRising 673
Counter-Strike
summit1g9662
Other Games
WinterStarcraft503
m0e_tv450
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick682
BasetradeTV293
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 40
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki46
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1924
• lizZardDota236
League of Legends
• Rush1447
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 15m
PiG Sty Festival
6h 15m
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
10h 15m
OSC
18h 15m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 4h
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
1d 5h
The Patches Monday
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
CSLAN 4
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.