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[WTL 2021] Winter - Week 11 - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3531 Posts
December 22 2021 14:41 GMT
#81
Byul 2-0ing byun :0
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States459 Posts
December 22 2021 14:50 GMT
#82
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.

However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.
WardiTV
Profile Joined September 2016
596 Posts
December 22 2021 16:29 GMT
#83
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.
Commentator
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 16:47:22
December 22 2021 16:32 GMT
#84
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.

However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


Admin did confirm that “3 rep chance for no reason” rule exists, and yes TL has ran out of their chance before this round. Admin said considerung this might be the most important match for two teams in regular season, he wanted to deal with it in a humanized way, by not forbidding TL to send clem. So he agreed to help TL to negotiate. Therefore, TL should take the risk (and they did accept): either GP agree TL's timetable to play against Clem(which obviously benifits TL), or GP agree TL to change player and take a little bit advantage (but not as big as a 1-0 start, in this case it's that GP can choose a player to play against, plus 1 more round server advantage).

Admin emphasized that both two teams were satisfied with the result, there was no dispute at all. What wardi said in stream yesterday was nothing more than a misinterpretation.
WardiTV
Profile Joined September 2016
596 Posts
December 22 2021 17:05 GMT
#85
On December 23 2021 01:32 lepricon1992 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.

However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


Admin did confirm that “3 rep chance for no reason” rule exists, and yes TL has ran out of their chance before this round. Admin said considerung this might be the most important match for two teams in regular season, he wanted to deal with it in a humanized way, by not forbidding TL to send clem. So he agreed to help TL to negotiate. Therefore, TL should take the risk (and they did accept): either GP agree TL's timetable to play against Clem(which obviously benifits TL), or GP agree TL to change player and take a little bit advantage (but not as big as a 1-0 start, in this case it's that GP can choose a player to play against, plus 1 more round server advantage).

Admin emphasized that both two teams were satisfied with the result, there was no dispute at all. What wardi said in stream yesterday was nothing more than a misinterpretation.


I mean I had multiple Liquid players telling me they had not used their three replay chances, kind of hard to misinterpret that. I repeated what I was told.
Commentator
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 17:11:21
December 22 2021 17:06 GMT
#86
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.


The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)

I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.

The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)

Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
WardiTV
Profile Joined September 2016
596 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 17:20:01
December 22 2021 17:18 GMT
#87
On December 23 2021 02:06 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.


The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)

I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.

The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)

Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.


It would change a lot - why would you accept reschedules if you don't have to and you could force your opponents teams to be missing players? At a guess I would say ~50% of matches this season have included some maps from replays, so it's a pretty huge chunk to just say "get on with it"

And I don't think they would lose Ryung, I think it's an issue with it being the end of the season, WTL were willing to change the match schedule to help. Mostly it's not a problem as when players are told they need to play early with enough time to do so, everybody can, because pro players availability is very high.
Commentator
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 23:09:34
December 22 2021 18:08 GMT
#88
On December 23 2021 02:18 WardiTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2021 02:06 Nakajin wrote:
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:
On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.


I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.


The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)

I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.

The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)

Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.


It would change a lot - why would you accept reschedules if you don't have to and you could force your opponents teams to be missing players? At a guess I would say ~50% of matches this season have included some maps from replays, so it's a pretty huge chunk to just say "get on with it"

And I don't think they would lose Ryung, I think it's an issue with it being the end of the season, WTL were willing to change the match schedule to help. Mostly it's not a problem as when players are told they need to play early with enough time to do so, everybody can, because pro players availability is very high.


Heh, I think if players needed to be there we would'nt have nearly has many match from replay.
We had a decade when players needed to fly around the world to phisically be at tournament and for the most part everyone made it work just fine. GSTL and Proleague players too were there week in week out for years, and when sometime they couldn't be available because of another tournament or something else, their team just send someone else. I have a hard time beleiving that so many players can't fit a 2-3 hours spot in their schedule once a week. (And not even once a week since they don't have to play each week)

I honestly don't think teams would go to the hassle to refuse every rescheduling offer, just as right now they don't try to reschedule to gain an advantage on preparation time or to stuck an adversary.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-22 19:28:10
December 22 2021 19:25 GMT
#89
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3463 Posts
December 23 2021 03:12 GMT
#90
Yeah, I mean somehow the ability to replay has become a privilege / right for teams, while imo it should be treated as a favor outside of direct tournament schedule conflict and/or emergency situation. Teams and player should be expected to clear their own schedule first on the day of the tournament, not the other way around. I also understand in this case, its the Holiday season and not everyone can be available to play, another "weakness" to the Organizer to schedule the last round at this point.
Sui
Profile Joined August 2019
26 Posts
December 23 2021 04:40 GMT
#91
It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn

Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6330 Posts
December 23 2021 04:48 GMT
#92
Can confirm both.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-23 10:27:55
December 23 2021 10:26 GMT
#93
On December 23 2021 13:40 Sui wrote:
It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn

Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc


Qlash needs to add Terran and Protoss players in their team roster. Are they any remaining player who haven't sign up yet for a team?
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
buzz_bender
Profile Joined August 2019
445 Posts
December 23 2021 12:05 GMT
#94
On December 23 2021 19:26 swarminfestor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2021 13:40 Sui wrote:
It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn

Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc


Qlash needs to add Terran and Protoss players in their team roster. Are they any remaining player who haven't sign up yet for a team?


I'm sure they can have an all-Zerg team That'll be fun to watch...... -_-'
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3463 Posts
December 23 2021 12:13 GMT
#95
How likely are the big names in Europe willing to move team at this point to get a shot at WTL? Showtime, Heromarine and of course Serral are who we are talking about. Otherwise, Reynor can be the ace player with other Ro32 players from DH EU.
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
103 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-12-23 13:53:29
December 23 2021 13:51 GMT
#96
Say goodbye to IG.
There will be little chance for them to come back to the main level event next year since Qlash confirmed joining the battle.
GGWP
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States459 Posts
December 23 2021 15:04 GMT
#97
That game 1, herO doing herO things
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6330 Posts
December 23 2021 15:18 GMT
#98
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
lepricon1992
Profile Joined July 2019
103 Posts
December 23 2021 15:23 GMT
#99
On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.


I think xiaose means this season, not next.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6330 Posts
December 23 2021 15:28 GMT
#100
On December 24 2021 00:23 lepricon1992 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.


I think xiaose means this season, not next.

Oh that's even better then. Didn't catch the first half.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
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