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China6327 Posts
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I realy like the chances for GP to stike another miracle upset here.
Also Gerald is the sacrificial lamb
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Team GP can crush TL's dream to proceed into playoff.
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France12762 Posts
Oh it starts tomorrow? Exciting final weeks!
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I'm hearing drama about Ryung vs Clem, hope we just get a normal match for Playoff deciding series ;(
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 21 2021 01:50 WardiTV wrote:
I'm hearing drama about Ryung vs Clem, hope we just get a normal match for Playoff deciding series ;(
What kind of drama?
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On December 21 2021 02:42 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 01:50 WardiTV wrote:
I'm hearing drama about Ryung vs Clem, hope we just get a normal match for Playoff deciding series ;( What kind of drama?
I don't get that "*Subject to map order change or change of match-up" thing either
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It seems Clem will not play today after being guaranteed he could play ahead of time with a cast from replays from the admin, however GP did not inform Ryung of this in time and Ryung couldn’t play once told while Clem was still available.
GP are allowing a different player to play Ryung - they will get to choose which of the remaining Liquid players this is - but are also asking for a 1-0 lead or additional server preferences.
This is what I can gather from my sources. Horrible way for the playoffs to be decided if true.
Edit : Ryung will play MaNa with both maps played on West, so Ryung server advantage
Adding from GP, as im linking to this post on stream
On December 21 2021 21:34 thebartv wrote:
Hi, this is Team GP Owner "Thebartv"
Clem asked us to play early and I delivered it to Ryung right away. Due to personal reasons, Ryung also couldn't play because he didn't have time until the day of the game.
So, according to the organizers, the players were replaced and played according to mutual agreement.
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Poland104 Posts
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China6327 Posts
Weird for GP to ask for preferences when they failed to notify their player.
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This is quite shockingly bad management imo, I mean if Clem cant play today, why didnt WTL just swap the match with the teams from a later day?
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On December 21 2021 19:18 digmouse wrote:
Weird for GP to ask for preferences when they failed to notify their player.
Kind of a crazy advantage anyway to basically remove Clem, yet they seem to be given all the leniency in a situation which is their own fault. Very badly handled sadly from what I have heard of it 
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I dont feel strongly over team GP fault, cause basically Clem ask for a re-schedule for personal reason (not tournament related), so GP can say yes or no. Surely GP messed up when accept without informing their player, its still their right to reject the offer. Imagine if GP said no from the beginning, would Clem be able to play or he would still miss it? But the part about GP asking for more advantage is just too greedy and wrong though.
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 21 2021 19:34 tigera6 wrote:
I dont feel strongly over team GP fault, cause basically Clem ask for a re-schedule for personal reason (not tournament related), so GP can say yes or no. Surely GP messed up when accept without informing their player, its still their right to reject the offer. Imagine if GP said no from the beginning, would Clem be able to play or he would still miss it? But the part about GP asking for more advantage is just too greedy and wrong though.
It's not clear from what Wardi is saying that GP accepted before the admin told Clem/TL it was ok.
If GP said yes then backed up it's not great, but if they didn't I think it's ok to ask for something else since Ryung prep goes to the drain a few hour before the match
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All in all it seems like a horrible chain of bad comunication.
No matter what the outcome will be, there is going to be a sour taste to the match, especially since it means so much for both teams
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On December 21 2021 19:57 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 19:34 tigera6 wrote:
I dont feel strongly over team GP fault, cause basically Clem ask for a re-schedule for personal reason (not tournament related), so GP can say yes or no. Surely GP messed up when accept without informing their player, its still their right to reject the offer. Imagine if GP said no from the beginning, would Clem be able to play or he would still miss it? But the part about GP asking for more advantage is just too greedy and wrong though. It's not clear from what Wardi is saying that GP accepted before the admin told Clem/TL it was ok. If GP said yes then backed up it's not great, but if they didn't I think it's ok to ask for something else since Ryung prep goes to the drain a few hour before the match
I don't think it's about accepting? I don't know how it works, but all season we have had a lot of games from replays, even without tournament clashes. It sounds like TL were told by the admin it was fine to play Clem and have a replay cast, as it has been multiple times through the season for a bunch of different teams and players. I don't think that's something Team GP can say no too, they just get told you need to play within the next X days. Fault is on GP to not inform their player properly, clearly they were able to in previous weeks when their players played from replays too?
I don't know, seems like a mess of an admin decision
Edit: can't get over the fact Team GP got to PICK which of the other Liquid players came in as a replacement, on top of now getting West-West instead of West-Central. Insanity
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 21 2021 20:30 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 19:57 Nakajin wrote:On December 21 2021 19:34 tigera6 wrote:
I dont feel strongly over team GP fault, cause basically Clem ask for a re-schedule for personal reason (not tournament related), so GP can say yes or no. Surely GP messed up when accept without informing their player, its still their right to reject the offer. Imagine if GP said no from the beginning, would Clem be able to play or he would still miss it? But the part about GP asking for more advantage is just too greedy and wrong though. It's not clear from what Wardi is saying that GP accepted before the admin told Clem/TL it was ok. If GP said yes then backed up it's not great, but if they didn't I think it's ok to ask for something else since Ryung prep goes to the drain a few hour before the match I don't think it's about accepting? I don't know how it works, but all season we have had a lot of games from replays, even without tournament clashes. It sounds like TL were told by the admin it was fine to play Clem and have a replay cast, as it has been multiple times through the season for a bunch of different teams and players. I don't think that's something Team GP can say no too, they just get told you need to play within the next X days. Fault is on GP to not inform their player properly, clearly they were able to in previous weeks when their players played from replays too? I don't know, seems like a mess of an admin decision
Feels a bit weird if they don't have the choice to refuse to play from replay. Every team has a schedule known well in advance, if they can't agree to acomodate a player from the other team it should be the original schedule that stick. It's not like TL can't work around it, they have plenty of players on their bench.
For someone like Ryung going into arguably his most important SC2 match in 2 or 3 years since leaving for the military, I'm hard press to blame him for saying he's unable/unwilling to play it from replay. You mess up your schedule and shorten your preparation time against a player that's favored against you to accomodate him.
GP being able to pick his opponent is compleatly bonkers though
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France12762 Posts
Hopefully Ryung pulls off the win, Team GP struggled so hard and still made the upsets happen, would be nice to see them qualify.
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On December 21 2021 18:51 Wardi wrote:
It seems Clem will not play today after being guaranteed he could play ahead of time with a cast from replays from the admin, however GP did not inform Ryung of this in time and Ryung couldn’t play once told while Clem was still available.
GP are allowing a different player to play Ryung - they will get to choose which of the remaining Liquid players this is - but are also asking for a 1-0 lead or additional server preferences.
This is what I can gather from my sources. Horrible way for the playoffs to be decided if true.
Edit : Ryung will play MaNa with both maps played on West, so Ryung server advantage
Wow, unreal
kindof sad, i liked team GP before but this mentality is a no no
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Well, its about time we get another villain in WTL other than DPG. Especially with how much people have cheered for GP at the beginning of the season.
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Hi, this is Team GP Owner "Thebartv"
Clem asked us to play early and I delivered it to Ryung right away. Due to personal reasons, Ryung also couldn't play because he didn't have time until the day of the game.
So, according to the organizers, the players were replaced and played according to mutual agreement.
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i guess the mutual agreement did not include the ability to pick the player, and even more : the server advantage
but well..
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Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened.
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Kinda like a double-jeopardy for Liquid, they dont get to re-schedule the match for Clem AND get punished for asking basically. WTL messed this one up big time in my book.
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On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened.
that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already"
also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much
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France12762 Posts
Gogo Percival! Make it 4-2
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On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much
That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(we don't know if it's real or not), but the rule is always there.
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On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there.
That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start?
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France12762 Posts
It's amazing the number of ace matches team GP forced (although that's also why their ranking suffers in spite their w-l being better than the other teams, but that's expected from underdogs)
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Harstem is a very nice choice for the Ace against Ryung, if he can play like how he did against Maru in TSL 8.
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On December 21 2021 23:06 tigera6 wrote:
Harstem is a very nice choice for the Ace against Ryung, if he can play like how he did against Maru in TSL 8.
It's pretty much the only choice anyway, right?
Clem can't play, poor Mana was not even supposed to play and got 2-0ed and uThermal looked too shaky in TvT.
C'mon, Harstem - go get this!
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On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start?
The leader of executive team says he will make an announcement after today's match to explain all these things behind, we'll see.
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Both team Liquid and GP would really benefit from having a strong Zerg player. Btw, Soo is coming back after IEM right?
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On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start?
What do you mean about "true situation"? Liquid needs to know they have used all replay change. That is rule. Every team is same.
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The world doesn't revolve around you Wardi
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The only official information I saw was Mana saying "can confirmed", whatever that means, and the post from Team GP Owner. Let's not get ahead of ourselves to blame anyone based on so little information.
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Canada8988 Posts
On the bright side to all this, TL winning with the ace mean that PSI can make it to the playoff with 2 maps, and with MaxPax-Bunny and Gumi-DRG, I like their chances.
The suspense continue!
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On December 21 2021 23:48 Durrrrrrr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start? What do you mean about "true situation"? Liquid needs to know they have used all replay change. That is rule. Every team is same.
I mean if Liquid asked the admin the admin should have said "No you used your three chances to play from replay." What I was told is they were told yes Clem could play from replay - I'm only making my judgement from what I have been told from those involved.
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4 1-post accounts on 1 page - that's gotta be some kind of a record, right?
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At least, according to the rules, the TL has run out of substitutions. I think Admin was trying to help TL get more opportunities. But as it turns out, GP didn't give TL a chance. It is clearly wrong to blame admin for the error. Come to think of it, admin is more likely to reply to TL, yes, if GP agrees, or yes, I'll help you out, or just yes. How can Admin reply with 100%? This is not normal. Obviously Wardii you are misinformed by tl's portrayal on their side.
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On December 22 2021 00:48 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
4 1-post accounts on 1 page - that's gotta be some kind of a record, right?
TL is a global forum.Many Chinese users don't active here because language barrier,but we are keeping attention...
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On December 22 2021 00:51 Evilmj wrote:
At least, according to the rules, the TL has run out of substitutions. I think Admin was trying to help TL get more opportunities. But as it turns out, GP didn't give TL a chance. It is clearly wrong to blame admin for the error. Come to think of it, admin is more likely to reply to TL, yes, if GP agrees, or yes, I'll help you out, or just yes. How can Admin reply with 100%? This is not normal. Obviously Wardii you are misinformed by tl's portrayal on their side.
But it's clearly something that is communicated wrongly to TeamLiquid, because if they knew that Team GP said no, then it is clear that TL would definitely have chosen another player. It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Clem. But it is precisely because the admins told TL that they can that they continued with Clem.
I don't blame Team GP or TL here. The fault lies entirely on the admins on miscommunicating this to the teams. They did not make it clear at all to the teams.
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On December 22 2021 00:08 Nakajin wrote:
On the bright side to all this, TL winning with the ace mean that PSI can make it to the playoff with 2 maps, and with MaxPax-Bunny and Gumi-DRG, I like their chances.
The suspense continue!
Somehow I think its gonna be 4-2 after everything said and done. Like thats all Team NV needs to secure 1st place as well.
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fLyiNgDroNe. Relax, I know most of them are from SC2 forums in other languages. Wardii's comments have also sparked discussion on other forums. Everyone wants the game to be fair and for every team to get a chance. Most of them, including me, browse TL.net regularly, but we prefer to post on forums in other languages (Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, etc.).
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:57 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 00:08 Nakajin wrote:
On the bright side to all this, TL winning with the ace mean that PSI can make it to the playoff with 2 maps, and with MaxPax-Bunny and Gumi-DRG, I like their chances.
The suspense continue! Somehow I think its gonna be 4-2 after everything said and done. Like thats all Team NV needs to secure 1st place as well.
It would be nice, also it would mean NA team in the playoff 3, EU team in the playoff 0. 
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On December 22 2021 00:57 buzz_bender wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 00:51 Evilmj wrote:
At least, according to the rules, the TL has run out of substitutions. I think Admin was trying to help TL get more opportunities. But as it turns out, GP didn't give TL a chance. It is clearly wrong to blame admin for the error. Come to think of it, admin is more likely to reply to TL, yes, if GP agrees, or yes, I'll help you out, or just yes. How can Admin reply with 100%? This is not normal. Obviously Wardii you are misinformed by tl's portrayal on their side.
But it's clearly something that is communicated wrongly to TeamLiquid, because if they knew that Team GP said no, then it is clear that TL would definitely have chosen another player. It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Clem. But it is precisely because the admins told TL that they can that they continued with Clem. I don't blame Team GP or TL here. The fault lies entirely on the admins on miscommunicating this to the teams. They did not make it clear at all to the teams.
Now Admin promises to give viewers and teams an explanation. I think if they could put out some evidence of the content of the communication, things would become clear. I hope they can work this out to everyone's satisfaction. Looking forward to a good end to the WTL regular season and a great postseason.
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On December 22 2021 01:13 Evilmj wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 00:57 buzz_bender wrote:On December 22 2021 00:51 Evilmj wrote:
At least, according to the rules, the TL has run out of substitutions. I think Admin was trying to help TL get more opportunities. But as it turns out, GP didn't give TL a chance. It is clearly wrong to blame admin for the error. Come to think of it, admin is more likely to reply to TL, yes, if GP agrees, or yes, I'll help you out, or just yes. How can Admin reply with 100%? This is not normal. Obviously Wardii you are misinformed by tl's portrayal on their side.
But it's clearly something that is communicated wrongly to TeamLiquid, because if they knew that Team GP said no, then it is clear that TL would definitely have chosen another player. It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Clem. But it is precisely because the admins told TL that they can that they continued with Clem. I don't blame Team GP or TL here. The fault lies entirely on the admins on miscommunicating this to the teams. They did not make it clear at all to the teams. Now Admin promises to give viewers and teams an explanation. I think if they could put out some evidence of the content of the communication, things would become clear. I hope they can work this out to everyone's satisfaction. Looking forward to a good end to the WTL regular season and a great postseason.
A full explanation will be good - I only ever wanted to inform what had been revealed, the rest was just opinions based on what I knew / had been told. Something is missing as otherwise it doesn’t make sense
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I think by default TL is at fault since they are the one who tried to change the preset schedule with like 24 hours notice. The vast majority of people in the world who work can't get a day off with less than 24 hours notice. Obviously if he had some type of family or medical emergency that comes first and should be accommodated but any other reason should automatically favor the other team. Whatever communication issues happened after that is irrelevant in my opinion. They did what they could to accommodate an unreasonable request but their attempts fell through. The fault still lies with TL.
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On December 22 2021 01:31 JJH777 wrote:
I think by default TL is at fault since they are the one who tried to change the preset schedule with like 24 hours notice.
But how do you know this? That's just pure speculation. It could very well be that before they chose the player, they asked the admins if Clem could play via replay on another schedule, and the admins said yes at that time. If that's the case, then it makes sense that they chose Clem. If the admins said no, then they could have easily chose somebody else. You're making up the point that it is TL that tried to change the preset schedule when it could have been a huge miscommunication.
However, if it is revealed that it is indeed TL that wanted the change last minute after selecting Clem, then I agree that Team GP should have been given the advantage. But as of this moment, we simply don't know enough to lay blame. Team GP is not to be blamed here at all. However, whenever things like these happen, the usual sign/indicator is that the admin or TO that is at fault, either with mismanagement or miscommunication.
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complete explanation
转载回复
首先开个头把，在我做战队赛的这几年，由于时间跨度长，选手多，是碰到过无数各种原因导致的问题，就像我说的，基本上每周，甚至每天都要沟通到凌晨，再说下规则的问题，由于国籍，时差，赛事冲突等等各方面原因，很难做到面面俱到统一标准，规则过于死板，只会增加战队的负担，所以一般来说，出现问题是由我依据事实情况和经验来处理；
首先会尝试协调两方队伍，尽量以双方都同意的方案解决，如果双方不能达成一致，则由我作为主裁判强制执行；
所幸大部分领队和选手，都是积极沟通，配合，基本都可以通过协商解决，可以说到目前为止，都没有出现过什么问题，这里也是非常感谢领队们的配合。
然后说一下申请rep 情况，都是需要对手同意的，你作为申请方，肯定是由对方优先挑选时间，毕竟时差过大，不可能说你欧洲选手想和韩国选手打rep，然后你选个你10点，他凌晨4点吧？ 那如果对方时间对不上，不同意，则还是原时间进行比赛，如果你确实无法在原时间比赛，那么也可以更换场次，或者延期，始终以保证比赛为优先，类似的操作也有过很多次了，这可以说是个常理性问题了。
好了 ，来详细说一下这次的情况首先，TL领队在排阵前优先告知我，clem需要打rep，我则回复，好的，等对阵公布了，我会通知GP领队；
随后19日对阵公布，我联系了GP领队，表达了clem想打rep，GP领队说需要问一问ryung，随后告诉我由于重要的个人原因，ryung只能直播打；
我转达TL领队，TL领队则表示GP领队是故意不同意的，于是我建议他尝试私聊ryung，也许可以再确认一下，而且我告知他，如果clem实在打不了，我可以帮他延期比赛，只要clem可以打，21 - 23任选一天都可以，而TL领队这才告诉我，clem需要出行，只能在19日，或者20日的上午打（中国时间），而他需要27日才能回来，并且主动提出了，是否可以换一个选手，可以让RYUNG选一个他想打的，我让他先等一下，我继续帮他和GP沟通，如果实在不行，就按他的方法办。
我不清楚为什么会有人得出赛事方100%保证能打rep的情况， 而且毫无疑问，虽然TL提前申请了rep，但是clem所需要的时间明显过于苛刻，难以调整，自己断绝了延期比赛的可能，不符合常理，并且TL领队自己提出了解决方案，那我自然选择继续和GP沟通，优先挑选打rep的时间，实在不行就尝试换人。
但接下来20日GP领队出现了失联情况，对于我近10次联络超过24小时没有任何回复，且我尝试去游戏中找了一天一夜，也未能找到GP领队和成员，仅有prince以挂机状态在频道，当然，对于Clem挑选的rep时间，GP即使拒绝也完全符合规则，（但他们需要接受延期）我只能一边和保持TL保持联系，确认他们的当地时间，以便我可以第一时间通知他们
此时我的判断是，GP虽然符合规则，但是如此重要的比赛，不应该因此导致TL直接弃权，且GP领队失联无法沟通的情况，对于我来说也有故意想通过规则逼TL弃权的可能，所以，要么GP接受TL换人，如果GP继续失联不作回应，我将强制将比赛延期到28日，此事我也告知了TL领队。
21日下午，GP领队回复了我消息，告知我之前出门了，于是我提出2个解决方案，延期，或者由Ryung挑选一个对手，GP则表示，做出让步，需要TL收到一些惩罚，让1分给GP， 我认为这个有些难以接受，在转告TL的同时，提出了2盘美西的让步方案，同时尝试和GP讲一讲道理，我不会让这个如此重要的比赛直接弃权，我会尽量帮双方沟通，但是如果不能达成一致，我将强制比赛延期，让1分太过了，可以2盘美西；
TL领队表示接受2盘美西，但是需要mana上场，同时ryung也选择了mana，2盘美西，至此事情结束，双方领队达成了一致。
就结果来说，在我和两位领队的努力下，TL换上了他们想上的人，GP得到了1盘美西的优势，事情本应该就此结束。
然后你们看到了，我发了论坛的公告，也告知了主播换人，也让TL编辑在页面写了
image.png
为什么我不在TL说明详细情况？
我作为赛事负责人，重视的是赛事的稳定运营，作为一件很常见的时间冲突，首先TL提出了一个很苛刻的rep时间，而GP领队则拒绝失联，我接下来协调双方，提出解决方案，这件事既然双方都已经接受，那么就按双方同意的方案进行就好了，本身很简单的一个事情，观众知道一下原因就完了，非要搞成现在这个样子又何必，无论GP，TL或者我们赛事方，有谁获利那？
或者说我做了这么多年裁判，大部分时候，出于保护选手，赛事，战队，很多时候即使他们说的不对，一般也会选择默不作声，虚构一个不知名的“裁判”接锅，现在nm终于可以说一下了！
而Wardi的质疑，距离事实有很大的偏差，当然我并不推荐你们去TL骂架，我已经联系了我们的编辑，会将情况转达，大家都是星际爱好者，有些主播喜欢先吹再看我也完全理解。
最后真的很感谢兄弟们的支持，季后赛我们已经在筹备，希望给大家带来最好的体验，下一届春季赛也已经在新建文件夹了，我已经把邮件发给qlash等队伍，方便他们早做准备，希望下赛季能有更多队伍的参与~
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On December 22 2021 02:32 buzz_bender wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 01:31 JJH777 wrote:
I think by default TL is at fault since they are the one who tried to change the preset schedule with like 24 hours notice. But how do you know this? That's just pure speculation. It could very well be that before they chose the player, they asked the admins if Clem could play via replay on another schedule, and the admins said yes at that time. If that's the case, then it makes sense that they chose Clem. If the admins said no, then they could have easily chose somebody else. You're making up the point that it is TL that tried to change the preset schedule when it could have been a huge miscommunication. However, if it is revealed that it is indeed TL that wanted the change last minute after selecting Clem, then I agree that Team GP should have been given the advantage. But as of this moment, we simply don't know enough to lay blame. Team GP is not to be blamed here at all. However, whenever things like these happen, the usual sign/indicator is that the admin or TO that is at fault, either with mismanagement or miscommunication.
Admin has given a complete explanation. My friend at The Chinese forum just gave me a Chinese version. The information they provide is quite different from what we see on TL. Admin will contact tl editors and I expect they will provide an English version. So let's just wait. Things will be fair.
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China6327 Posts
So it looked like this:
TL let the admins know that Clem's matches needed to be via replay before submitting their lineup, the admins subsequently notified GP on the 19th when teams received their matchup, but was told that Ryung could only play live.
Admins relayed this to TL and told them they're willing to reschedule TL's match. However TL only at this time let the admins know that Clem would only be available on the 19 or 20th and will not return until the 27th. TL did offer GP to pick a replacement themselves as a compromise.
The admins then could not reach GP's manager, they only replied 24 hours later in the afternoon on the 21st (which was a few hours away from match time) and demanded a 1-0 headstart which was deemed unacceptable by the admins (they were offered a reschedule or Ryung picking an opponent). Admins negotiated between the teams that Ryung gained server advantage and he picked MaNa (which is TL's own replacement pick as well).
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 22 2021 03:00 digmouse wrote:
So it looked like this:
TL let the admins know that Clem's matches needed to be via replay before submitting their lineup, the admins subsequently notified GP on the 19th when teams received their matchup, but was told that Ryung could only play live.
Admins relayed this to TL and told them they're willing to reschedule TL's match. However TL only at this time let the admins know that Clem would only be available on the 19 or 20th and will not return until the 27th.
The admins then could not reach GP's manager, they only replied 24 hours later and demanded a 1-0 headstart (they were offered a reschedule or Ryung picking an opponent). Admins negotiated between the teams that Ryung gained server advantage and he picked MaNa.
Well that close it I think.
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On December 22 2021 03:00 digmouse wrote:
So it looked like this:
TL let the admins know that Clem's matches needed to be via replay before submitting their lineup, the admins subsequently notified GP on the 19th when teams received their matchup, but was told that Ryung could only play live.
Admins relayed this to TL and told them they're willing to reschedule TL's match. However TL only at this time let the admins know that Clem would only be available on the 19 or 20th and will not return until the 27th. TL did offer GP to pick a replacement themselves as a compromise.
The admins then could not reach GP's manager, they only replied 24 hours later in the afternoon on the 21st (which was a few hours away from match time) and demanded a 1-0 headstart (they were offered a reschedule or Ryung picking an opponent). Admins negotiated between the teams that Ryung gained server advantage and he picked MaNa.
Thanks for clearing this up
So it was a micomunication on all 3 ends
TL wasn t clear enough when Clem would be available and when he wasnt
GP was not answering fast enough
The organizers took to long to find a solution and or didn t set up faster comunication ways right from the Start
I hope they will take actions, so that comunication is handle better in the Future.
On the bright side, we get a realy realy intense last week with the last playoff spot still up for grabs
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TL probably should have been more upfront with the details, or just accepted that Clem wouldn't be able to play and not put him on the lineup from the start.
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On December 22 2021 00:37 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2021 23:48 Durrrrrrr wrote:On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start? What do you mean about "true situation"? Liquid needs to know they have used all replay change. That is rule. Every team is same. I mean if Liquid asked the admin the admin should have said "No you used your three chances to play from replay." What I was told is they were told yes Clem could play from replay - I'm only making my judgement from what I have been told from those involved.
Now the admin has replied. Your information is incorrect. Admin never said 100% guaranteed. You can't make accusations without clear information.
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On December 22 2021 04:01 Durrrrrrr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 00:37 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 23:48 Durrrrrrr wrote:On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start? What do you mean about "true situation"? Liquid needs to know they have used all replay change. That is rule. Every team is same. I mean if Liquid asked the admin the admin should have said "No you used your three chances to play from replay." What I was told is they were told yes Clem could play from replay - I'm only making my judgement from what I have been told from those involved. Now the admin has replied. Your information is incorrect. Admin never said 100% guaranteed. You can't make accusations without clear information.
Don't be so sure, you can't deny this without trustable source. what was mentioned in stream was : I have the screenshot in front of me, admin said yes 100%
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Things a very clear now. Here is the whole picture you demand to see:
At the beginning, TeamLiquid told admin that they want Clem to play a rep when admin ask them to submit their lineup, he agreed to help them to discuss with GP to reschedule the time, so TL submitted their first version linup. But then GP manager declined to reschedule for some reason like Ryung could only play online.
Then admin turned back to TL and suggest them try to directly contact Ryung to find out why. At the same time, admin told TL manager that if Clem really couldn't participate on time, he could rearrange their match to any time between 21th–23th( that's the real truth , 100% guarenteed is totally misinterpertstion), but this time TL manager said that Clem could only play on 19th or 20 morning, and he will not return untill 27th. TL then suggested that they would agree Ryung to choose another player in the clan instead of Clem to play against . Admin agreeed to pass this suggestion to GP.
But then Admin could not reach GP manager as well as their players for more than 24 hours, he tried 10 times but failed. Considering the incoming match is so important to both 2 teams , he decided to declare an enforced delay to 28th if GP keeps uncontactable.
Finally in the afternoon 21st , GP manager showed up, admin soon asked him to choose wether let Ryung choose a player to replace clem or delay the match. GP manager agreed TL to replace, but said they want 1-0 advantage. Admin thought that would be unacceptable to TL, so he offered player replacement and 1 more match on WesternUS server(which benifits korean player), both teams agreed, Ryung chose MaNa, that's all.
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side.
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Looks fair enough for the admin after all
But really.. How convenient it is for team GP
" for some reason like Ryung could only play online"
Lack of fair play maybe. Errr I may be too much a TL fan boy to argue further
Anyway GG harstem I can't wait to see your video about this little drama
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On December 22 2021 04:14 hyuu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 04:01 Durrrrrrr wrote:On December 22 2021 00:37 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 23:48 Durrrrrrr wrote:On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start? What do you mean about "true situation"? Liquid needs to know they have used all replay change. That is rule. Every team is same. I mean if Liquid asked the admin the admin should have said "No you used your three chances to play from replay." What I was told is they were told yes Clem could play from replay - I'm only making my judgement from what I have been told from those involved. Now the admin has replied. Your information is incorrect. Admin never said 100% guaranteed. You can't make accusations without clear information. Don't be so sure, you can't deny this without trustable source. what was mentioned in stream was : I have the screenshot in front of me, admin said yes 100%
Even if there's a "100% yes", it should happen before they told admin Clem could only play on those 1.5 days (19th and 20 morning) .
And even though things went like this, admin did consider rescheduling the match to 28th when Clem can come back, I think he kept his promise.
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On December 22 2021 04:14 hyuu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 04:01 Durrrrrrr wrote:On December 22 2021 00:37 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 23:48 Durrrrrrr wrote:On December 21 2021 22:56 WardiTV wrote:On December 21 2021 22:43 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 21 2021 22:18 hyuu wrote:On December 21 2021 22:04 RichardStark wrote:
Well, according to Scboy's streaming, TL has used up all the chance to playing ahead, so TL has to seek for GP's agreement for playing ahead, naturally GP didn't agree with this proposal. And since TL has to change player before the match, which is sort of violating the rule(obviously it is unreasonable to change player after the playoffs have been decided), so GP is granted for some advantages during the match, and this is why they have the server advantages.
(Sorry for the broken English, but this is more or less what happened. that's so weird, when Admin told Team Liquid : "you can play ahead of time Clem, 100% guarenteed", TL should have understood "No you have used all your chances already" also it is understandable team GP wants to avoid to face Clem, but asking even more advantage over this looks a bit too much That's not "asking for more advantage" but a compromise from my point of view. Since TL has ran out their chance of playing ahead (which is 3 times per season), GP can easily reject their request and start with 2-0 if they really want. The admin may made mistake telling TL "100% guarenteed"(btw we don't if it's real or not), but the rule is always there. That's Liquid being punished further for the admins mistake, they wouldn't have picked Clem if the admin told them the true situation from the start? What do you mean about "true situation"? Liquid needs to know they have used all replay change. That is rule. Every team is same. I mean if Liquid asked the admin the admin should have said "No you used your three chances to play from replay." What I was told is they were told yes Clem could play from replay - I'm only making my judgement from what I have been told from those involved. Now the admin has replied. Your information is incorrect. Admin never said 100% guaranteed. You can't make accusations without clear information. Don't be so sure, you can't deny this without trustable source. what was mentioned in stream was : I have the screenshot in front of me, admin said yes 100%
Well common sense has to kick in here. What would 100% mean? Say I request to play at 4am your time tomorrow, otherwise I have no time. If you don’t agree then it’s not 100%.
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On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side.
Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here.
While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that
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Given the new information, I don't think there is necessarily a villain in this drama. We can be picky and say that all three ends could have done better but to me it is just miscommunication. (Let's also keep in mind that SCBoy, TL, and GP spoke three different mother tongues.)
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China6327 Posts
Yeah tbh I think it's more of a mistake and more on TL and GP's side. The admin team did their best given the circumstances.
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Best case scenario for Psistorm - but MaxPax/Gumiho really have to step up and deliver today.
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On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that
You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference, a single two–way message could easily cost 24 hrs.
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On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference.
The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z.
Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation.
Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday.
If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure.
In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal.
So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening.
It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case.
(I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better.
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China6327 Posts
There is only so much you can do when you got ghosted by one side for 24 hours and did not receive enough information to make a decision from another.
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On December 22 2021 18:31 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference. The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z. Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation. Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday. If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure. In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal. So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening. It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case. (I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better.
But you should remember that the other team also has the right to set their request, just like in this case GP finally said they want 1-0 advantage although admin declined and offered them server advantage. It's not that easy like one team apply for rep and tell you when they could play then schedule can be confirmed, negotiation will always happen as long as rep application submits.
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On December 22 2021 18:57 lepricon1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 18:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference. The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z. Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation. Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday. If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure. In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal. So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening. It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case. (I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better. But you should remember that the other team also has the right to set their request, just like in this case GP finally said they want 1-0 advantage although admin declined and offered them server advantage. It's not that easy like one team apply for rep and tell you when they could play then schedule can be confirmed, negotiation will always happen as long as rep application submits.
In my scenario the teams would have submittet there linups like this:
TL:
Clem (only on 19th or 20th)
Harstem (only live)
uThermal (live or 20th)
Substitute Kelazuhr (live or 20th)
GP
Ryung (only live)
Prince (19th or live)
Percival (20th or live)
Substitute Cham (19th, 20th or live)
then the Admin has complete information right from the start and can denie TL the replay games.
So there is no need for any negotiation, if there is a standard in place
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On December 22 2021 19:47 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 18:57 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference. The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z. Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation. Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday. If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure. In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal. So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening. It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case. (I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better. But you should remember that the other team also has the right to set their request, just like in this case GP finally said they want 1-0 advantage although admin declined and offered them server advantage. It's not that easy like one team apply for rep and tell you when they could play then schedule can be confirmed, negotiation will always happen as long as rep application submits. In my scenario the teams would have submittet there linups like this: TL: Clem (only on 19th or 20th) Harstem (only live) uThermal (live or 20th) Substitute Kelazuhr (live or 20th) GP Ryung (only live) Prince (19th or live) Percival (20th or live) Substitute Cham (19th, 20th or live) then the Admin has complete information right from the start and can denie TL the replay games. So there is no need for any negotiation, if there is a standard in place
in this case:
You can't say no to Clem before the line up is decided for both team, cause if it's Clem vs Prince/Percival there is no time clash. And after line up is decided, it would be unfair to change player roster.
So your standard could not work. Unless you're rejecting any potential scedule conflict, which means almost not possible for any replay games request get apporved.
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On December 22 2021 20:01 lzhalzx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 19:47 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:57 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference. The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z. Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation. Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday. If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure. In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal. So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening. It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case. (I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better. But you should remember that the other team also has the right to set their request, just like in this case GP finally said they want 1-0 advantage although admin declined and offered them server advantage. It's not that easy like one team apply for rep and tell you when they could play then schedule can be confirmed, negotiation will always happen as long as rep application submits. In my scenario the teams would have submittet there linups like this: TL: Clem (only on 19th or 20th) Harstem (only live) uThermal (live or 20th) Substitute Kelazuhr (live or 20th) GP Ryung (only live) Prince (19th or live) Percival (20th or live) Substitute Cham (19th, 20th or live) then the Admin has complete information right from the start and can denie TL the replay games. So there is no need for any negotiation, if there is a standard in place in this case: You can't say no to Clem before the line up is decided for both team, cause if it's Clem vs Prince/Percival there is no time clash. And after line up is decided, it would be unfair to change player roster. So your standard could not work. Unless you're rejecting any potential scedule conflict, which means almost not possible for any replay games request get apporved.
The teams don t know the maps in advance anyways. So it shouldn t be a problem when in this case the admin just asks TL, if they want to swap Harstem and Clem or substitute Kelazhur in. Without them knowing their opponent, just based on availabiltiy.
Because the admin gets the availability from the start, he can just adress the team, that requested an replay match without disclosing the opponets players.
So there would never be a scenario, where Ryung is asked, do you want to play vs Clem on the 20th or force another opponent on the 21st, wich is bad for obvious reasons.
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On December 22 2021 20:16 dbRic1203 wrote:
The teams don t know the maps in advance anyways. So it shouldn t be a problem when in this case the admin just asks TL, if they want to swap Harstem and Clem or substitute Kelazhur in. Without them knowing their opponent, just based on availabiltiy.
Because the admin gets the availability from the start, he can just adress the team, that requested an replay match without disclosing the opponets players.
So there would never be a scenario, where Ryung is asked, do you want to play vs Clem on the 20th or force another opponent on the 21st, wich is bad for obvious reasons.
Image this
GGG vs GP, game on 10th. i'm GGG's team leader, and i don't want dream be caught by Ryung. And I know Ryung is playing another tourney on 8th night, so i tell the orgnizer that dream can only play a replay game on 8th night before submitting the line up. then i can got a free chance to swap my players (as i don't have any substitute player) if dream vs ryung happens.
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 22 2021 20:16 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 20:01 lzhalzx wrote:On December 22 2021 19:47 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:57 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference. The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z. Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation. Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday. If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure. In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal. So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening. It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case. (I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better. But you should remember that the other team also has the right to set their request, just like in this case GP finally said they want 1-0 advantage although admin declined and offered them server advantage. It's not that easy like one team apply for rep and tell you when they could play then schedule can be confirmed, negotiation will always happen as long as rep application submits. In my scenario the teams would have submittet there linups like this: TL: Clem (only on 19th or 20th) Harstem (only live) uThermal (live or 20th) Substitute Kelazuhr (live or 20th) GP Ryung (only live) Prince (19th or live) Percival (20th or live) Substitute Cham (19th, 20th or live) then the Admin has complete information right from the start and can denie TL the replay games. So there is no need for any negotiation, if there is a standard in place in this case: You can't say no to Clem before the line up is decided for both team, cause if it's Clem vs Prince/Percival there is no time clash. And after line up is decided, it would be unfair to change player roster. So your standard could not work. Unless you're rejecting any potential scedule conflict, which means almost not possible for any replay games request get apporved. The teams don t know the maps in advance anyways. So it shouldn t be a problem when in this case the admin just asks TL, if they want to swap Harstem and Clem or substitute Kelazhur in. Without them knowing their opponent, just based on availabiltiy. Because the admin gets the availability from the start, he can just adress the team, that requested an replay match without disclosing the opponets players. So there would never be a scenario, where Ryung is asked, do you want to play vs Clem on the 20th or force another opponent on the 21st, wich is bad for obvious reasons.
I don't think you can ask from player to be available 2-3 days every week and make up the calendar as you go. It's an admin nightmare and you are setting up players to make mistake.
I think the easiest is just: The team wanting to play from replay need an agreement from the other team to do so, if they don't get it, they need a designated sub on the day or a forfeit the bo2. The TO can change the day/hours of the match as they please if they deamed so necessary, it apply to all players.
At the end of the day, if you can't be there at the time of the match, you can't be there. If it was offline no one would challenge that.
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I think it can be simply resolved by getting rosters set a few days earlier. You don't need to add rules, it has clearly worked for the most part until this time which was caused by not having enough time for players to play the game.
These guys are all pros, I think if you have the rosters set one week in advance instead of two days it would be extremely rare you can't get a match played ahead of time (I don't think I've ever had issues with someone wanting to play ahead of time and their opponents not being able to out of a lot of tournament experience, but obviously it depends how much time there is to figure these things out.)
Reading the statement it's clearly just unfortunate - TL assumed that Clem would be able to play beforehand based on the rules and the fact its happened frequently, GP didn't respond right away / their player couldn't play once he knew and the admins didn't know enough to resolve it any better than they did. Unfortunate that it happened, but the event has been great otherwise 
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On December 22 2021 21:04 WardiTV wrote:
I think it can be simply resolved by getting rosters set a few days earlier. You don't need to add rules, it has clearly worked for the most part until this time which was caused by not having enough time for players to play the game.
Fair enough
Just submitting the lineups once all matches from the previous week are done, should be eough.
Somehow I wasn t thinking about just submitting it earlier at all, that would probably do the trick
On December 22 2021 21:04 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 20:16 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 20:01 lzhalzx wrote:On December 22 2021 19:47 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:57 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:31 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 18:11 lepricon1992 wrote:On December 22 2021 05:24 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 22 2021 04:19 lepricon1992 wrote:
The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. Obviously the Organizer is the one to blame here. While they tried their best to solve the situation here, the ruleset/ procedure picking the Players and scheduling would benefit from some reworks, for example clear Rules on when possible games from replays should be played and a standardised procedure on how to arrange that You can't have a standard procedure negotiating between two teams from two different continents , consider the time difference. The standard could be that the teams say from the start player X can only play on day y and z. Then the admin has all the information right from the start and there is no negotiation. Also it would eliminate the problem that here Ryung allready knew, he d dodge Clem if he says, he can only play on matchday. If the teams had to submit their prefered play days beforehand, that entire problem wouldn t occure. In this situation the admin absolutly did his best. It was the procedure from the beginning that wasn t optimal. So I blame the tournament organisers (as in the organisation, not the admin alone) on this happening. It s their job to put in rules that make the competition as fair as possible and they failed to do so in this very special case. (I m not saying they failed completly, this is still by far the best team league we had in years, I m glad we have it and I am realy thankfull) I just think it could be even better. But you should remember that the other team also has the right to set their request, just like in this case GP finally said they want 1-0 advantage although admin declined and offered them server advantage. It's not that easy like one team apply for rep and tell you when they could play then schedule can be confirmed, negotiation will always happen as long as rep application submits. In my scenario the teams would have submittet there linups like this: TL: Clem (only on 19th or 20th) Harstem (only live) uThermal (live or 20th) Substitute Kelazuhr (live or 20th) GP Ryung (only live) Prince (19th or live) Percival (20th or live) Substitute Cham (19th, 20th or live) then the Admin has complete information right from the start and can denie TL the replay games. So there is no need for any negotiation, if there is a standard in place in this case: You can't say no to Clem before the line up is decided for both team, cause if it's Clem vs Prince/Percival there is no time clash. And after line up is decided, it would be unfair to change player roster. So your standard could not work. Unless you're rejecting any potential scedule conflict, which means almost not possible for any replay games request get apporved. The teams don t know the maps in advance anyways. So it shouldn t be a problem when in this case the admin just asks TL, if they want to swap Harstem and Clem or substitute Kelazhur in. Without them knowing their opponent, just based on availabiltiy. Because the admin gets the availability from the start, he can just adress the team, that requested an replay match without disclosing the opponets players. So there would never be a scenario, where Ryung is asked, do you want to play vs Clem on the 20th or force another opponent on the 21st, wich is bad for obvious reasons. I don't think you can ask from player to be available 2-3 days every week and make up the calendar as you go..
I think you can. At the end of the day the players are paid to play there. We all are asked to be available for our jobs as well. And while hours are a lot more flexible now while working from home, we all still have mandatory meetings/ hours/ .. where we have to show up. It s not unreaslonable to ask PRO players to do the same imo
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Canada8988 Posts
Since I won't be able to watch it live, I just want to wish good luck to my favorite Gumibear, hopefully he can't bring some GSTL magic to carry PSI to the playoff!!
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France12762 Posts
Maru and Bunny were on point, great to see.
I hope they will be able to defend their title, having a good seed is the first step towards playoffs victory
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I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.
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On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.
I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.
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On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent.
Admin did confirm that “3 rep chance for no reason” rule exists, and yes TL has ran out of their chance before this round. Admin said considerung this might be the most important match for two teams in regular season, he wanted to deal with it in a humanized way, by not forbidding TL to send clem. So he agreed to help TL to negotiate. Therefore, TL should take the risk (and they did accept): either GP agree TL's timetable to play against Clem(which obviously benifits TL), or GP agree TL to change player and take a little bit advantage (but not as big as a 1-0 start, in this case it's that GP can choose a player to play against, plus 1 more round server advantage).
Admin emphasized that both two teams were satisfied with the result, there was no dispute at all. What wardi said in stream yesterday was nothing more than a misinterpretation.
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On December 23 2021 01:32 lepricon1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
I do agree about a standard procedure, or limited number of requests which I think was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. I don't really find fault with what GP did, nor the organizer or TL really. It's just an unfortunate event that highlights one of the most difficult things about a World Team League, scheduling.
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent. Admin did confirm that “3 rep chance for no reason” rule exists, and yes TL has ran out of their chance before this round. Admin said considerung this might be the most important match for two teams in regular season, he wanted to deal with it in a humanized way, by not forbidding TL to send clem. So he agreed to help TL to negotiate. Therefore, TL should take the risk (and they did accept): either GP agree TL's timetable to play against Clem(which obviously benifits TL), or GP agree TL to change player and take a little bit advantage (but not as big as a 1-0 start, in this case it's that GP can choose a player to play against, plus 1 more round server advantage). Admin emphasized that both two teams were satisfied with the result, there was no dispute at all. What wardi said in stream yesterday was nothing more than a misinterpretation.
I mean I had multiple Liquid players telling me they had not used their three replay chances, kind of hard to misinterpret that. I repeated what I was told.
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent. I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day.
The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?)
I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit.
The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid)
Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.
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On December 23 2021 02:06 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent. I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day. The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?) I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit. The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid) Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem.
It would change a lot - why would you accept reschedules if you don't have to and you could force your opponents teams to be missing players? At a guess I would say ~50% of matches this season have included some maps from replays, so it's a pretty huge chunk to just say "get on with it"
And I don't think they would lose Ryung, I think it's an issue with it being the end of the season, WTL were willing to change the match schedule to help. Mostly it's not a problem as when players are told they need to play early with enough time to do so, everybody can, because pro players availability is very high.
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 23 2021 02:18 WardiTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 02:06 Nakajin wrote:On December 23 2021 01:29 WardiTV wrote:On December 22 2021 23:50 Moonerz wrote:
However, realistically is there any incentive for a team to agree to play a game ahead of time when by simply declining that request they can force one of their opponents best players out of the match? Once it gets towards the end of the season and the stakes feel/are higher I couldn't blame a team for not shifting their games around to suit their opponent. I think the idea is that you can't refuse to play ahead of time, if the other team still has uses of their "playing ahead" counter or however it is. The league even tried to reschedule the Liquid game, when they heard Ryung couldn't play when told, but then Clem was away for holidays so he just wasn't back in any time to play it. So it's not really about declining, if your opponent requests it you have to go by it, there was just no solution here with this final week being so close to the holidays etc / roster released close to the play day. The 3 "reschedule" allowed feels like a bad idea to me, it's just asking to lead into problems (it's unclear what would have happened here, I guess GP loses Ryung and has to field someone else/forfeit?) I think it should just be: The WTL (SCBoy) set the schedule. If a team want to reschedule, they need the accord of the opposite team and off the WTL. If either refuse, the team has to field someone else or forfeit, if the other team accept to reschedule but then can't make it to the agreed time, they have to field someone else or forfeit. The WTL can change the schedule unilateraly with or without consultation of the teams. (For exemple if there is a tournament overlap they want to avoid) Honestly I don't think it would change much, most people are pretty chill with rescheduling, but it would solve the problem. It would change a lot - why would you accept reschedules if you don't have to and you could force your opponents teams to be missing players? At a guess I would say ~50% of matches this season have included some maps from replays, so it's a pretty huge chunk to just say "get on with it" And I don't think they would lose Ryung, I think it's an issue with it being the end of the season, WTL were willing to change the match schedule to help. Mostly it's not a problem as when players are told they need to play early with enough time to do so, everybody can, because pro players availability is very high.
Heh, I think if players needed to be there we would'nt have nearly has many match from replay.
We had a decade when players needed to fly around the world to phisically be at tournament and for the most part everyone made it work just fine. GSTL and Proleague players too were there week in week out for years, and when sometime they couldn't be available because of another tournament or something else, their team just send someone else. I have a hard time beleiving that so many players can't fit a 2-3 hours spot in their schedule once a week. (And not even once a week since they don't have to play each week)
I honestly don't think teams would go to the hassle to refuse every rescheduling offer, just as right now they don't try to reschedule to gain an advantage on preparation time or to stuck an adversary.
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Yeah, I mean somehow the ability to replay has become a privilege / right for teams, while imo it should be treated as a favor outside of direct tournament schedule conflict and/or emergency situation. Teams and player should be expected to clear their own schedule first on the day of the tournament, not the other way around. I also understand in this case, its the Holiday season and not everyone can be available to play, another "weakness" to the Organizer to schedule the last round at this point.
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It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cn
Also, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc
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China6327 Posts
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On December 23 2021 13:40 Sui wrote:It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cnAlso, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc
Qlash needs to add Terran and Protoss players in their team roster. Are they any remaining player who haven't sign up yet for a team?
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On December 23 2021 19:26 swarminfestor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 13:40 Sui wrote:It seems there's going to be a WTL vs World, a showmatch between 4 players from the WTL and 4 players outside of WTL, played during the Chinese Gold series finals in Jan. 7 - 9 Source: blz.cnAlso, Qlash confirmed to participate in the WTL next season. Source: scboy.cc Qlash needs to add Terran and Protoss players in their team roster. Are they any remaining player who haven't sign up yet for a team?
I'm sure they can have an all-Zerg team That'll be fun to watch...... -_-'
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How likely are the big names in Europe willing to move team at this point to get a shot at WTL? Showtime, Heromarine and of course Serral are who we are talking about. Otherwise, Reynor can be the ace player with other Ro32 players from DH EU.
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Say goodbye to IG.
There will be little chance for them to come back to the main level event next year since Qlash confirmed joining the battle.
GGWP
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That game 1, herO doing herO things
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China6327 Posts
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.
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On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.
I think xiaose means this season, not next.
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China6327 Posts
On December 24 2021 00:23 lepricon1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales. I think xiaose means this season, not next.
Oh that's even better then. Didn't catch the first half.
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 23 2021 22:51 lepricon1992 wrote:
Say goodbye to IG.
There will be little chance for them to come back to the main level event next year since Qlash confirmed joining the battle.
GGWP
There's maybe some hope since there's two relagated team
Outside of PREP the lineup last qualifier was around their level if not weaker and on a good day they can take out PREP.
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On December 24 2021 01:29 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 22:51 lepricon1992 wrote:
Say goodbye to IG.
There will be little chance for them to come back to the main level event next year since Qlash confirmed joining the battle.
GGWP There's maybe some hope since there's two relagated team Outside of PREP the lineup last qualifier was around their level if not weaker and on a good day they can take out PREP.
Lets hope IG makes it back in, they are a staple of the league and I d be sad to see them go
On December 23 2021 21:13 tigera6 wrote:
How likely are the big names in Europe willing to move team at this point to get a shot at WTL? Showtime, Heromarine and of course Serral are who we are talking about. Otherwise, Reynor can be the ace player with other Ro32 players from DH EU.
I could see Showtime switching, but no way Gabe or Serral are leaving their Teams
Maybe we could get Reynor, Showtime, Elazer?
Some B-Tier EU players or non Code S Koreans are more realistic though
Maybe Skillous, Hellraiser or Goblin or if soo comes back in time they might get him
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On December 24 2021 00:18 digmouse wrote:
Total prize pool for next season could potentially be doubled as they will be adding extras from league merchandise sales.
I want some league merchandise
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/6xne0W8.jpg)
World Team League/2021/Winter/Regular Season
SCBoy | 
WardiTV
Legendk | 
IntoTheiNu | 
Ryung vs 
MaNa
RagnaroK
