EPT[WTL 2021] Winter - Week 11 - Page 3
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Evilmj
China103 Posts
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tcb
49 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:48 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: 4 1-post accounts on 1 page - that's gotta be some kind of a record, right? TL is a global forum.Many Chinese users don't active here because language barrier,but we are keeping attention... | ||
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:51 Evilmj wrote: At least, according to the rules, the TL has run out of substitutions. I think Admin was trying to help TL get more opportunities. But as it turns out, GP didn't give TL a chance. It is clearly wrong to blame admin for the error. Come to think of it, admin is more likely to reply to TL, yes, if GP agrees, or yes, I'll help you out, or just yes. How can Admin reply with 100%? This is not normal. Obviously Wardii you are misinformed by tl's portrayal on their side. But it's clearly something that is communicated wrongly to TeamLiquid, because if they knew that Team GP said no, then it is clear that TL would definitely have chosen another player. It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Clem. But it is precisely because the admins told TL that they can that they continued with Clem. I don't blame Team GP or TL here. The fault lies entirely on the admins on miscommunicating this to the teams. They did not make it clear at all to the teams. | ||
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tigera6
3191 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:08 Nakajin wrote: On the bright side to all this, TL winning with the ace mean that PSI can make it to the playoff with 2 maps, and with MaxPax-Bunny and Gumi-DRG, I like their chances. The suspense continue! Somehow I think its gonna be 4-2 after everything said and done. Like thats all Team NV needs to secure 1st place as well. | ||
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Evilmj
China103 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:57 tigera6 wrote: Somehow I think its gonna be 4-2 after everything said and done. Like thats all Team NV needs to secure 1st place as well. It would be nice, also it would mean NA team in the playoff 3, EU team in the playoff 0.  | ||
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Evilmj
China103 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:57 buzz_bender wrote: But it's clearly something that is communicated wrongly to TeamLiquid, because if they knew that Team GP said no, then it is clear that TL would definitely have chosen another player. It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Clem. But it is precisely because the admins told TL that they can that they continued with Clem. I don't blame Team GP or TL here. The fault lies entirely on the admins on miscommunicating this to the teams. They did not make it clear at all to the teams. Now Admin promises to give viewers and teams an explanation. I think if they could put out some evidence of the content of the communication, things would become clear. I hope they can work this out to everyone's satisfaction. Looking forward to a good end to the WTL regular season and a great postseason. | ||
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Wardi
England895 Posts
On December 22 2021 01:13 Evilmj wrote: Now Admin promises to give viewers and teams an explanation. I think if they could put out some evidence of the content of the communication, things would become clear. I hope they can work this out to everyone's satisfaction. Looking forward to a good end to the WTL regular season and a great postseason. A full explanation will be good - I only ever wanted to inform what had been revealed, the rest was just opinions based on what I knew / had been told. Something is missing as otherwise it doesn’t make sense | ||
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JJH777
United States4376 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
On December 22 2021 01:31 JJH777 wrote: I think by default TL is at fault since they are the one who tried to change the preset schedule with like 24 hours notice. But how do you know this? That's just pure speculation. It could very well be that before they chose the player, they asked the admins if Clem could play via replay on another schedule, and the admins said yes at that time. If that's the case, then it makes sense that they chose Clem. If the admins said no, then they could have easily chose somebody else. You're making up the point that it is TL that tried to change the preset schedule when it could have been a huge miscommunication. However, if it is revealed that it is indeed TL that wanted the change last minute after selecting Clem, then I agree that Team GP should have been given the advantage. But as of this moment, we simply don't know enough to lay blame. Team GP is not to be blamed here at all. However, whenever things like these happen, the usual sign/indicator is that the admin or TO that is at fault, either with mismanagement or miscommunication. | ||
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eventime
2 Posts
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eventime
2 Posts
转载回复 首先开个头把，在我做战队赛的这几年，由于时间跨度长，选手多，是碰到过无数各种原因导致的问题，就像我说的，基本上每周，甚至每天都要沟通到凌晨，再说下规则的问题，由于国籍，时差，赛事冲突等等各方面原因，很难做到面面俱到统一标准，规则过于死板，只会增加战队的负担，所以一般来说，出现问题是由我依据事实情况和经验来处理； 首先会尝试协调两方队伍，尽量以双方都同意的方案解决，如果双方不能达成一致，则由我作为主裁判强制执行； 所幸大部分领队和选手，都是积极沟通，配合，基本都可以通过协商解决，可以说到目前为止，都没有出现过什么问题，这里也是非常感谢领队们的配合。 然后说一下申请rep 情况，都是需要对手同意的，你作为申请方，肯定是由对方优先挑选时间，毕竟时差过大，不可能说你欧洲选手想和韩国选手打rep，然后你选个你10点，他凌晨4点吧？ 那如果对方时间对不上，不同意，则还是原时间进行比赛，如果你确实无法在原时间比赛，那么也可以更换场次，或者延期，始终以保证比赛为优先，类似的操作也有过很多次了，这可以说是个常理性问题了。 好了 ，来详细说一下这次的情况首先，TL领队在排阵前优先告知我，clem需要打rep，我则回复，好的，等对阵公布了，我会通知GP领队； 随后19日对阵公布，我联系了GP领队，表达了clem想打rep，GP领队说需要问一问ryung，随后告诉我由于重要的个人原因，ryung只能直播打； 我转达TL领队，TL领队则表示GP领队是故意不同意的，于是我建议他尝试私聊ryung，也许可以再确认一下，而且我告知他，如果clem实在打不了，我可以帮他延期比赛，只要clem可以打，21 - 23任选一天都可以，而TL领队这才告诉我，clem需要出行，只能在19日，或者20日的上午打（中国时间），而他需要27日才能回来，并且主动提出了，是否可以换一个选手，可以让RYUNG选一个他想打的，我让他先等一下，我继续帮他和GP沟通，如果实在不行，就按他的方法办。 我不清楚为什么会有人得出赛事方100%保证能打rep的情况， 而且毫无疑问，虽然TL提前申请了rep，但是clem所需要的时间明显过于苛刻，难以调整，自己断绝了延期比赛的可能，不符合常理，并且TL领队自己提出了解决方案，那我自然选择继续和GP沟通，优先挑选打rep的时间，实在不行就尝试换人。 但接下来20日GP领队出现了失联情况，对于我近10次联络超过24小时没有任何回复，且我尝试去游戏中找了一天一夜，也未能找到GP领队和成员，仅有prince以挂机状态在频道，当然，对于Clem挑选的rep时间，GP即使拒绝也完全符合规则，（但他们需要接受延期）我只能一边和保持TL保持联系，确认他们的当地时间，以便我可以第一时间通知他们 此时我的判断是，GP虽然符合规则，但是如此重要的比赛，不应该因此导致TL直接弃权，且GP领队失联无法沟通的情况，对于我来说也有故意想通过规则逼TL弃权的可能，所以，要么GP接受TL换人，如果GP继续失联不作回应，我将强制将比赛延期到28日，此事我也告知了TL领队。 21日下午，GP领队回复了我消息，告知我之前出门了，于是我提出2个解决方案，延期，或者由Ryung挑选一个对手，GP则表示，做出让步，需要TL收到一些惩罚，让1分给GP， 我认为这个有些难以接受，在转告TL的同时，提出了2盘美西的让步方案，同时尝试和GP讲一讲道理，我不会让这个如此重要的比赛直接弃权，我会尽量帮双方沟通，但是如果不能达成一致，我将强制比赛延期，让1分太过了，可以2盘美西； TL领队表示接受2盘美西，但是需要mana上场，同时ryung也选择了mana，2盘美西，至此事情结束，双方领队达成了一致。 就结果来说，在我和两位领队的努力下，TL换上了他们想上的人，GP得到了1盘美西的优势，事情本应该就此结束。 然后你们看到了，我发了论坛的公告，也告知了主播换人，也让TL编辑在页面写了 image.png 为什么我不在TL说明详细情况？ 我作为赛事负责人，重视的是赛事的稳定运营，作为一件很常见的时间冲突，首先TL提出了一个很苛刻的rep时间，而GP领队则拒绝失联，我接下来协调双方，提出解决方案，这件事既然双方都已经接受，那么就按双方同意的方案进行就好了，本身很简单的一个事情，观众知道一下原因就完了，非要搞成现在这个样子又何必，无论GP，TL或者我们赛事方，有谁获利那？ 或者说我做了这么多年裁判，大部分时候，出于保护选手，赛事，战队，很多时候即使他们说的不对，一般也会选择默不作声，虚构一个不知名的“裁判”接锅，现在nm终于可以说一下了！ 而Wardi的质疑，距离事实有很大的偏差，当然我并不推荐你们去TL骂架，我已经联系了我们的编辑，会将情况转达，大家都是星际爱好者，有些主播喜欢先吹再看我也完全理解。 最后真的很感谢兄弟们的支持，季后赛我们已经在筹备，希望给大家带来最好的体验，下一届春季赛也已经在新建文件夹了，我已经把邮件发给qlash等队伍，方便他们早做准备，希望下赛季能有更多队伍的参与~ | ||
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Evilmj
China103 Posts
On December 22 2021 02:32 buzz_bender wrote: But how do you know this? That's just pure speculation. It could very well be that before they chose the player, they asked the admins if Clem could play via replay on another schedule, and the admins said yes at that time. If that's the case, then it makes sense that they chose Clem. If the admins said no, then they could have easily chose somebody else. You're making up the point that it is TL that tried to change the preset schedule when it could have been a huge miscommunication. However, if it is revealed that it is indeed TL that wanted the change last minute after selecting Clem, then I agree that Team GP should have been given the advantage. But as of this moment, we simply don't know enough to lay blame. Team GP is not to be blamed here at all. However, whenever things like these happen, the usual sign/indicator is that the admin or TO that is at fault, either with mismanagement or miscommunication. Admin has given a complete explanation. My friend at The Chinese forum just gave me a Chinese version. The information they provide is quite different from what we see on TL. Admin will contact tl editors and I expect they will provide an English version. So let's just wait. Things will be fair. | ||
digmouse
China6326 Posts
TL let the admins know that Clem's matches needed to be via replay before submitting their lineup, the admins subsequently notified GP on the 19th when teams received their matchup, but was told that Ryung could only play live. Admins relayed this to TL and told them they're willing to reschedule TL's match. However TL only at this time let the admins know that Clem would only be available on the 19 or 20th and will not return until the 27th. TL did offer GP to pick a replacement themselves as a compromise. The admins then could not reach GP's manager, they only replied 24 hours later in the afternoon on the 21st (which was a few hours away from match time) and demanded a 1-0 headstart which was deemed unacceptable by the admins (they were offered a reschedule or Ryung picking an opponent). Admins negotiated between the teams that Ryung gained server advantage and he picked MaNa (which is TL's own replacement pick as well). | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On December 22 2021 03:00 digmouse wrote: So it looked like this: TL let the admins know that Clem's matches needed to be via replay before submitting their lineup, the admins subsequently notified GP on the 19th when teams received their matchup, but was told that Ryung could only play live. Admins relayed this to TL and told them they're willing to reschedule TL's match. However TL only at this time let the admins know that Clem would only be available on the 19 or 20th and will not return until the 27th. The admins then could not reach GP's manager, they only replied 24 hours later and demanded a 1-0 headstart (they were offered a reschedule or Ryung picking an opponent). Admins negotiated between the teams that Ryung gained server advantage and he picked MaNa. Well that close it I think. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On December 22 2021 03:00 digmouse wrote: So it looked like this: TL let the admins know that Clem's matches needed to be via replay before submitting their lineup, the admins subsequently notified GP on the 19th when teams received their matchup, but was told that Ryung could only play live. Admins relayed this to TL and told them they're willing to reschedule TL's match. However TL only at this time let the admins know that Clem would only be available on the 19 or 20th and will not return until the 27th. TL did offer GP to pick a replacement themselves as a compromise. The admins then could not reach GP's manager, they only replied 24 hours later in the afternoon on the 21st (which was a few hours away from match time) and demanded a 1-0 headstart (they were offered a reschedule or Ryung picking an opponent). Admins negotiated between the teams that Ryung gained server advantage and he picked MaNa. Thanks for clearing this up So it was a micomunication on all 3 ends TL wasn t clear enough when Clem would be available and when he wasnt GP was not answering fast enough The organizers took to long to find a solution and or didn t set up faster comunication ways right from the Start I hope they will take actions, so that comunication is handle better in the Future. On the bright side, we get a realy realy intense last week with the last playoff spot still up for grabs | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
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Durrrrrrr
2 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:37 WardiTV wrote: I mean if Liquid asked the admin the admin should have said "No you used your three chances to play from replay." What I was told is they were told yes Clem could play from replay - I'm only making my judgement from what I have been told from those involved. Now the admin has replied. Your information is incorrect. Admin never said 100% guaranteed. You can't make accusations without clear information. | ||
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hyuu
163 Posts
On December 22 2021 04:01 Durrrrrrr wrote: Now the admin has replied. Your information is incorrect. Admin never said 100% guaranteed. You can't make accusations without clear information. Don't be so sure, you can't deny this without trustable source. what was mentioned in stream was : I have the screenshot in front of me, admin said yes 100% | ||
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lepricon1992
96 Posts
At the beginning, TeamLiquid told admin that they want Clem to play a rep when admin ask them to submit their lineup, he agreed to help them to discuss with GP to reschedule the time, so TL submitted their first version linup. But then GP manager declined to reschedule for some reason like Ryung could only play online. Then admin turned back to TL and suggest them try to directly contact Ryung to find out why. At the same time, admin told TL manager that if Clem really couldn't participate on time, he could rearrange their match to any time between 21th–23th( that's the real truth , 100% guarenteed is totally misinterpertstion), but this time TL manager said that Clem could only play on 19th or 20 morning, and he will not return untill 27th. TL then suggested that they would agree Ryung to choose another player in the clan instead of Clem to play against . Admin agreeed to pass this suggestion to GP. But then Admin could not reach GP manager as well as their players for more than 24 hours, he tried 10 times but failed. Considering the incoming match is so important to both 2 teams , he decided to declare an enforced delay to 28th if GP keeps uncontactable. Finally in the afternoon 21st , GP manager showed up, admin soon asked him to choose wether let Ryung choose a player to replace clem or delay the match. GP manager agreed TL to replace, but said they want 1-0 advantage. Admin thought that would be unacceptable to TL, so he offered player replacement and 1 more match on WesternUS server(which benifits korean player), both teams agreed, Ryung chose MaNa, that's all. The organizer shouldn't be blamed like this at all, they did their job pretty well, as well as protecting rights of teams and players on both side. | ||
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