EPT
So we can watch the ASL finals in-between the two series.
WESG 2018 Grand Final - Semifinals - Page 21
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
So we can watch the ASL finals in-between the two series. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4148 Posts
On March 16 2019 19:57 Xitah wrote: Can you imagine 7 games of "NuclearLaunchDetectedNuclearLaunchDetectedNuclearLaunchDetected"?? This is the dream, aye. | ||
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Legan
Finland597 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On March 16 2019 20:03 dysenterymd wrote: I would consider myself a huge Serral fan, but saying he's the GOAT, or even in contention, is delusional. In terms of total career accomplishments it's probably something like Inno > Maru >= MVP >= Life and then MAYBE Serral, though I can think of many others who would deserve that 5th spot. Even if Serral isn't at his peak right now he seems poised to win most of the WCS events this year (Neeb could beat him, but Serral is much more consistent against non-Neeb foreigners than Neeb is against non-Serral foreigners so will they even meet?) and probably take a few weekenders with Koreans in attendance. If Serral keeps up his form for another two years (especially if he takes a GSL, which I would love for him to try) he would be a contender for GOAT. Also WESG isn't that huge in terms of prestige, I would put it somewhere between a WCS stop and any other weekender in terms of difficulty. well honestly, we have never had a player perform as well for even just barely over a year straight in the way that serral has (except maru.. kind of) if he did it for another 2 years he would be SOOOOOOOOOO far beyond anyone we have ever had in sc2 clearly GOAT is subjective. But if we are going to make it about "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", with little or no regard for consistent level of dominance, then yes clearly you have made it impossible for serral to be considered regardless of how good he actually is. i mean.. think about it... after this tournament serral is going to have the most $$ won of any sc2 player(if he wins)... in the history of sc2. these other players you guys are naming had 2,3,or even 4x as long to do that and he is still going to have won more. I'm just saying.. it's getting to the point where I think putting serral in the argument for GOAT isn't unreasonable at all. edit: actually coming back and reading this, the argument being made is even more unfair than "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", because other placements like semifinals are clearly being considered. So really, it starts becoming, at least partially, "how many tournaments have you participated in during the history of sc2". | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 17 2019 00:39 travis wrote: this is hilarious because honestly, we have never had a player perform as well for even just barely over a year straight in the way that serral has (except maru.. kind of) if he did it for another 2 years he would be SOOOOOOOOOO far beyond anyone we have ever had in sc2 clearly GOAT is subjective. But if we are going to make it about "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", with little or no regard for consistent level of dominance, then yes clearly you have made it impossible for serral to be considered regardless of how good he actually is. i mean.. think about it... after this tournament serral is going to have the most $$ won of any sc2 player... in the history of sc2. these other players you guys are naming had 2,3,or even 4x as long to do that and he is still going to have won more. I'm just saying.. it's getting to the point where I think putting serral in the argument for GOAT isn't unreasonable at all. Uh, wait, I someway lost the "he has to go on for two years" part; no, clearly I don't agree on that, he is not called Bonjwa because he doesn't play korean leagues since the period of domination and the win percentage Serral had is unheard of in sc2. On the other hand, the GOAT indeed is a matter of "who won more stuff"; Serral has been a full time sc2 player for a couple of years now and has won a lot just as MVP had to retire early because of his back issues, Life who was(rightfully) banned before he was 20 years old or TaeJa who went to the military ahead of time because of his wrists. Their sc2 career wasn't much longer than Serral's if compared to Inno's or Maru's; Serral, being still young, strong and active, will have the time to amass enough titles to eventually become the GOAT if he keeps playing on his level. I really hope Serral will become the top earner tomorrow, it's not sure yet(edit for Anc13nt:if Inno wins he's fourth). That of prize distribution is one interesting matter as korean tournaments paid out significantly more in the past(up to three times the 1st prize for Code S in 2019) whereas international tournament first prizes skyrocketed in LoTV(BlizzCon from 100k to 280k, for example); the overall money awarded to Sc2 players was higher in 2012 than in 2018(still the third best year out of nine) but it can't be a coincidence that the current top three earners all won one of the big paycheques tournaments(Maru at WESG, Rogue and Serral at BlizzCon). Again, what really is impressive is how fast Serral has proceeded to earn that pile of money. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 17 2019 00:39 travis wrote: well honestly, we have never had a player perform as well for even just barely over a year straight in the way that serral has (except maru.. kind of) if he did it for another 2 years he would be SOOOOOOOOOO far beyond anyone we have ever had in sc2 clearly GOAT is subjective. But if we are going to make it about "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", with little or no regard for consistent level of dominance, then yes clearly you have made it impossible for serral to be considered regardless of how good he actually is. i mean.. think about it... after this tournament serral is going to have the most $$ won of any sc2 player(if he wins)... in the history of sc2. these other players you guys are naming had 2,3,or even 4x as long to do that and he is still going to have won more. I'm just saying.. it's getting to the point where I think putting serral in the argument for GOAT isn't unreasonable at all. edit: actually coming back and reading this, the argument being made is even more unfair than "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", because other placements like semifinals are clearly being considered. So really, it starts becoming, at least partially, "how many tournaments have you participated in during the history of sc2". Yeah, it's not like these players had 4 times more but the prize pool was lower and the game had much more talent in it. Also it's not like any of them was playing in regional tournament with no real opposition(WCS vs Code S). But totally comparable. I just made 200 km in a day, what an achievement. Let's not care I used a car while others were running, not importnat. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 17 2019 00:39 travis wrote: i mean.. think about it... after this tournament serral is going to have the most $$ won of any sc2 player TaeJa has won more Premier Tournaments than Serral has finished top 4 in. When the scene was much deeper than it is now. Yet he's earned less than half the prize money of Serral. The prize pools of today are hardly comparable with what they used to be. People shouldn't forget that. When stuchiu put TaeJa in the top 3 of his GOAT list people on TL ridiculed him and still somehow people entertain the thought that Serral would be close to GOAT already. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 17 2019 04:13 Alejandrisha wrote: also, nice to see inno showing some emotion for the first time. either he actually is human or he got a substantial software update Those AIs have become increasingly better at mimicking human behaviour, I'm really impressed. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On March 17 2019 04:20 Xain0n wrote: Those AIs have become increasingly better at mimicking human behaviour, I'm really impressed. yes i think they are using some incremental ai updates towards understanding emotion xD all kidding aside, i love inno and i think my favorite sc2 gif of all time is inno smelling the flowers when he took 2nd place in gsl | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2722 Posts
On March 17 2019 04:22 Alejandrisha wrote: yes i think they are using some incremental ai updates towards understanding emotion xD all kidding aside, i love inno and i think my favorite sc2 gif of all time is inno smelling the flowers when he took 2nd place in gsl | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
thank you  | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 17 2019 00:39 travis wrote: well honestly, we have never had a player perform as well for even just barely over a year straight in the way that serral has (except maru.. kind of) if he did it for another 2 years he would be SOOOOOOOOOO far beyond anyone we have ever had in sc2 clearly GOAT is subjective. But if we are going to make it about "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", with little or no regard for consistent level of dominance, then yes clearly you have made it impossible for serral to be considered regardless of how good he actually is. i mean.. think about it... after this tournament serral is going to have the most $$ won of any sc2 player(if he wins)... in the history of sc2. these other players you guys are naming had 2,3,or even 4x as long to do that and he is still going to have won more. I'm just saying.. it's getting to the point where I think putting serral in the argument for GOAT isn't unreasonable at all. edit: actually coming back and reading this, the argument being made is even more unfair than "how much stuff have you won during the entire history of sc2", because other placements like semifinals are clearly being considered. So really, it starts becoming, at least partially, "how many tournaments have you participated in during the history of sc2". Greatest of all time Not "of however long you've been playing," not "of the past year," not "of insert-some-arbitrary-time-here." Call it unfair if you want, but it is what it is. Serral is nowhere near being GOAT, he's just too young right now. | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On March 17 2019 05:41 pvsnp wrote: Greatest of all time Not "of however long you've been playing," not "of the past year," not "of insert-some-arbitrary-time-here." Call it unfair if you want, but it is what it is. Serral is nowhere near being GOAT, he's just too young right now. Indeed, Innovation himself has a much stronger case for the greatest so far than Serral does. | ||
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frazzle
United States468 Posts
On March 17 2019 02:12 starkiller123 wrote: pretty crazy, I knew that INnoVation has a good record vs Maru but its even worse than i thought, Maru has beaten INnoVation only one time outside of some proleague bo1 and the only extended series he has won was the 4-0 back in 2013, other than that INnoVation has won every other bo3+ series the two have played Aligulac is down for me to see for myself, but wow. That's crazy! | ||
Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On March 17 2019 05:41 pvsnp wrote: Greatest of all time Not "of however long you've been playing," not "of the past year," not "of insert-some-arbitrary-time-here." Call it unfair if you want, but it is what it is. Serral is nowhere near being GOAT, he's just too young right now. Man if only there was a way to say who's the SC2 GOAT... https://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/544242-team-liquid-greatest-of-all-time-contest | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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