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Ej_
47656 Posts
On March 16 2019 19:27 Xain0n wrote: Bonjwa [...] is tied to crushing the opposition way more than being consistent over the span of multiple years. it's actually a term tied to a different game that had meaning stretched as whatever fans wanted, because, in the end, it's nothing but fan nomenclature which is basically just ramblings of people on the internet | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 16 2019 19:19 Durnuu wrote: Every single starcraft thread becomes Serral vs Maru, eventually. Well, it's almost appropriate here we almost got Serral vs Maru; it was the highest chanche of them meeting we had in seven months. However, as I previously said, that narrative was hotter last year when both were at their peak and we had to find out who was the strongest; a match played now would have been a pale shade of what it could have happened at BlizzCon. I woke up late and did not watch the series; reading the LR made me think they weren't especially worth watching, am I wrong? Serral vs Innovation is the final I actually wanted, they developed a proper rivalry and I am very curious to see if g2 and g3 at IEM were actually indicative of a weakness Serral has in ultra late game ZvT; I'm confident he had a solution in mind for that scenario or he will actively try to end the game/getting capital advantage before it materializes. I think Serral has good chanches in a bo7 given his attitude of losing single games while adapting very well works better in extended series; Inno is always solid, I'm expecting ovine photoshops if he wins. I'd be surprised to see a sweep from either sides, I think it will be hard fought. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 16 2019 18:49 Xitah wrote: I'm going to trigger Maru fans: the 3 GSL wins of Maru are not that impressive since first, the top Zerg and world no 1 or 2 was not participating and second, Korean talent is on decline, so don't pretend that it means as much as like in 2014 or something. And in decline it's still more than 99 % of WCS players. Sad story, really. | ||
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Xitah
49 Posts
Serral vs Innovation is the final I actually wanted Can you imagine 7 games of "NuclearLaunchDetectedNuclearLaunchDetectedNuclearLaunchDetected"?? The janitors will turn off the lights, kick everyone out, lock the doors, and go home. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Hopefully Innovation can show him who's boss in the finals. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
I sort of dispute the `decaying scene' narrative. GSL ro32 is significantly weaker than before, but otherwise the Korean scene is strong. You have players like Snute saying that the game has gotten increasingly difficult and mechanically demanding, and Snute was very strong mechanically from 2013-2016. The foreign scene certainly has the highest skill level it has ever had, and if you ignore Serral (excluding one outlier is fair IMO) the Korean non-Korean gap is about as big as it was in 2016. The Korean scene is weaker in terms of depth, but the top Koreans are as god like as ever. So yes, Maru's 3 GSL wins are very impressive. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On March 16 2019 18:43 pvsnp wrote: From what I've seen, despite all of them having shown the ability to put on a TvT masterclass, the wins usually go like Inno > Maru > TY > Inno Wow This is so spot on | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On March 16 2019 18:49 pvsnp wrote: Yeah, they look so alike and play such similar styles too  You were probably thinking of Blizzcon, which he did win in 2014 but at the end of a rather unspectacular year for him. He was a inconsistent for sure but saying he was unspectacular or soO was miles ahead is more a TL narrative than anything. This kind of tropes made by the writers and the community are hards to debunk but still, he won a DH, got in 1/2 of a very stacked iem and a gsl when he barely lost to soO (after beating Maru), won the wcs world and managed to be in the finals of a very stacked dh winter which he was a big favorite to win. (Forgg mech was really amazing) It's easy to argue some players have a better year (soO, Zest) but telling he was unspectacular or they were miles ahead by following this narrative is ridiculous. Unless you consider dh winter and wcs world are not part of the year but it is weird. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 16 2019 19:57 Xitah wrote: Can you imagine 7 games of "NuclearLaunchDetectedNuclearLaunchDetectedNuclearLaunchDetected"?? The janitors will turn off the lights, kick everyone out, lock the doors, and go home. Hahahah that would be a little too much, I'm hoping for a more varied series like the one at HSC; I like lategame, ghosts and nukes but 40-45 minutes games are either too stressful or boring to me. As for the B word, it was definitely more suited to Brood War since here the foreign scene actually means something; it has a well defined meaning is defined well enough, I wouldn't imply it shifts following the caprices of the fans, and this meaning involves being able to crush the competitions for months with consecutive tournament wins(see IloveOov) while not especially rewarding consistency at top level(Jaedong). In sc2 Mvp was indeed the korean player(this means it could be unanimous) closest to be a Bonjwa. | ||
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Achamian
82 Posts
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Kazi25
Philippines236 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
I expect a rerun of Masa-Scarlett in the 3rd place match shouls be quick. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 16 2019 20:03 dysenterymd wrote: I would consider myself a huge Serral fan, but saying he's the GOAT, or even in contention, is delusional. In terms of total career accomplishments it's probably something like Inno > Maru >= MVP >= Life and then MAYBE Serral, though I can think of many others who would deserve that 5th spot. Even if Serral isn't at his peak right now he seems poised to win most of the WCS events this year (Neeb could beat him, but Serral is much more consistent against non-Neeb foreigners than Neeb is against non-Serral foreigners so will they even meet?) and probably take a few weekenders with Koreans in attendance. If Serral keeps up his form for another two years (especially if he takes a GSL, which I would love for him to try) he would be a contender for GOAT. Also WESG isn't that huge in terms of prestige, I would put it somewhere between a WCS stop and any other weekender in terms of difficulty. I sort of dispute the `decaying scene' narrative. GSL ro32 is significantly weaker than before, but otherwise the Korean scene is strong. You have players like Snute saying that the game has gotten increasingly difficult and mechanically demanding, and Snute was very strong mechanically from 2013-2016. The foreign scene certainly has the highest skill level it has ever had, and if you ignore Serral (excluding one outlier is fair IMO) the Korean non-Korean gap is about as big as it was in 2016. The Korean scene is weaker in terms of depth, but the top Koreans are as god like as ever. So yes, Maru's 3 GSL wins are very impressive. Almost everything you wrote here mirror my own thoughts. Just a few points: not sure Inno is the GOAT yet, Mvp and Life are ahead of Maru imho; would not place Serral in top 5 on this list, almost certainly top 10. Not only Neeb could beat Serral in WCS, it's just that the majority of the foreigners seem weaker at the moment than they were in the previous seasons(Scarlett is more or less on par with her performance early last year): Reynor seems lost, ShowTime is in a slump, Special does not even reach semifinals anymore, Lambo has not improved, Elazer might be better but still way weaker than 2017, not to mention Nerchio who is not even playing at top level recently(and Snute who looks fairly good for a retired player but definitely can't get up there). | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
ouch | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On March 16 2019 18:49 Xitah wrote: I'm going to trigger Maru fans: the 3 GSL wins of Maru are not that impressive since first, the top Zerg and world no 1 or 2 was not participating and second, Korean talent is on decline, so don't pretend that it means as much as like in 2014 or something. I disagree, 3 Code S are still super impressive. Even without Serral, the ro8 appeared stacked; the upper echelon of Code S is as scary as ever, korean scene just lost depth. On a side note, I'm worried for Protoss! Most of the young and of the returning players(who will probably ensure korean scene won't die out before Sc2 itself) are Terran or Zerg, just as the ones who seem most likely to breakout(Bunny, Ragnarok); on the other hand, the best Protoss are all relatively old and will be forced to retire soon. soO will greatly missed but Dark, Rogue and Solar will still be around; on the other hand, who is going to replace Stats, Classic, herO and Zest? sOs is slightly younger but I doubt he, alone, will be enough as he hasn't won a title in more than three years. Trap would need to step up his play, PartinG to recover his old greatness...I see it grim. Those players are responsible for all but one top 2 placements of korean Protoss in a premier tournament(the only exception being Patience losing WCA in 2016). It's not like Protoss are dominating at the moment: a good amount of finals but only two Premier victories in 2018. Neeb will carry the flag in the Circuit but the future of the race seems dire(and I guess nodoby will care since Protoss is the least liked). | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1153 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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