EPTYeah, I mean, might as well. Adepts are a tier 1.5 unit, Marauders are a tier 1.5 unit, Marauders shred Adepts.
Nerf Marauders.
[WCS] Summer Tour DreamHack Montreal 2016 - Page 184
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breaker1328
Canada298 Posts
Yeah, I mean, might as well. Adepts are a tier 1.5 unit, Marauders are a tier 1.5 unit, Marauders shred Adepts. Nerf Marauders. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 14 2016 10:59 Nebuchad wrote: The reason why you can't mech in other match-ups than TvT is that if mech is strong, you can simply add marines to your mech and make it even stronger. You cannot keep marine at the level it is right now and have mech be strong at the same time, unless you have terrans sign some sort of Geneva convention that they won't use both at the same time. Aoe vs marine is very skillful? Damn, I missed you explaining that in every thread about colossi a-clicking during all of WoL and HotS, where were you? On top of not being a very skillful interaction at all, it also forces a tech path of your opponent, which I hear is bad design when the protoss does it to other races. No, toss didn't need forcefields regardless. Toss needed forcefields because otherwise you could just rally your marauders in the other guys base on Lost Temple and freewin. Against zerg, you were walling off against that, not forcefielding. The builds have objectively changed in that you added some fancy units into them. The overall goals and the backbone composition are the same. If you want some of my weed, please come by, I'm always happy to share. There were large periods of time where mech was viable in TvZ and guess what, no terran added marines in there (fantasy had some strange mech into bio builds, but these were weird/bad tbh). the reason is that it sucks. upgrades, and infrasturcture are a thing, and adding 20 0/0 marines wont make your mech army stronger. banelings/storms vs marines is obviously very skillfull and one of the most exciting sc2 micro interactions.that collossus and pre nerf infestors were somewhat boring aoe was hardly the marines fault. and good look walling your natural against a losira style roach ling all in on xelnaga caverns without forcefields. since the nexus cannon in hots, forcefields were much less important in PvT for defense than in PvZ. builds changed a ton. of course the goals stayed the same, because the goal is to win the game. that one base carrier dt isnt viable is also not the marines fault. would also be interested how marines make PvP and ZvZ builds stagnate. the reason why the marine is a well desinged unit is simple: the marine itself is a simple unit, which due to its strength, requieres well though out responses of the opponent races (that much of your argument is correct), while at the same time has almost unilimited skill ceiling and micro potential. if marinekings split vs kyrix didnt amaze, then i cant help you. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 14 2016 11:18 seemsgood wrote: So...no DKIM ? That's tomorrow at 12 PM eastern, 10 AM mountain, 9 AM pacific, etc etc. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On August 14 2016 11:21 blade55555 wrote: That's tomorrow at 12 PM eastern, 10 AM mountain, 9 AM pacific, etc etc. Thank. I guess hedisappointed iaguz today. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
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CannonKingPrime
57 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12387 Posts
On August 14 2016 11:12 Paljas wrote: There were large periods of time where mech was viable in TvZ and guess what, no terran added marines in there (fantasy had some strange mech into bio builds, but these were weird/bad tbh). the reason is that it sucks. upgrades, and infrasturcture are a thing, and adding 20 0/0 marines wont make your mech army stronger. banelings/storms vs marines is obviously very skillfull and one of the most exciting sc2 micro interactions.that collossus and pre nerf infestors were somewhat boring aoe was hardly the marines fault. and good look walling your natural against a losira style roach ling all in on xelnaga caverns without forcefields. since the nexus cannon in hots, forcefields were much less important in PvT for defense than in PvZ. builds changed a ton. of course the goals stayed the same, because the goal is to win the game. that one base carrier dt isnt viable is also not the marines fault. would also be interested how marines make PvP and ZvZ builds stagnate. There weren't large periods of time where mech was viable in TvZ, you made that up. There was a single string at the end of HotS that lasted for like two months, and I'm pretty sure it was starting to get rekt even at the end of this specific period (pretty sure there was a Vaani game with Petraeus about that). Marines vs banelings is "obviously very skillful and exciting". Banelings vs marines isn't, except for flanks I guess, which aren't really the defining factor in the interaction. I do not expect that zergs find it particularly exciting to throw banelings into a terran army and wonder if he'll split well enough. I find it interesting that elements of the game that need to be there because the marine requires them "are hardly the marines' fault". Roaches were countered by making more cannons. This was actually the argument against forge expand at the beginning of WoL, that you couldn't counter roach pushes. Then someone figured out that you could just build more cannons. I've got to concede on the last point, you're totally right. You're forced into the same basic builds since 2010 "because the goal is to win the game". That is one powerful argument. Anyways, the stream is over, see you all next time. | ||
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Pugfarmer
70 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
If you think you've been stuck using "the same basic builds since 2010", then you either aren't paying attention or are playing the most efficient style. No matter how you balance the game, there will always be one style that sticks out as the most consistent and the most highly-performing against a wide array of strategies. That doesn't mean it's the only viable strategy, that just means it's what people default to. You can play mech in TvZ, and it will work. You can play mech in TvP, and it will probably work. The only exception to this is when you are playing the absolute best players, in which case games will always default to either 'surprising build' or 'most efficient build'. This happens in every game. Every game has a efficient way to play, and surprising way to play, at the very highest level. This includes Starcraft II. Have fun, all of you  | ||
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CannonKingPrime
57 Posts
On August 14 2016 12:04 Pugfarmer wrote: I hope David Kim announces they are scrapping Sc2 and just releasing a prettier BW because every new idea and unit they have made for Sc2 is horseshit. Prettier BW seems like a waste of time, but it'd be awesome if they released an updated package that worked with ICCup out of the box, maybe even that had some matchmaking like SC2. For a new game they should make WC4... | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On August 14 2016 12:33 Soularion wrote: One thing I've seen during my time being at DH that I don't see too much in LRs is people just.. genuinely enjoying the game. The only comments I've heard are people saying that MajOr's skyterran style was "gross", or "greasy" - but no imbalance. Sometimes I think you guys need to enjoy the game, and if you don't enjoy then.. maybe you've just had your time. Maybe you're just reminiscing on old days, instead of better days. That's how life is. Personally, I'm still very much new to the scene, and I've been enjoying the fuck out of LotV. The game quality is more or less the same as it's always been - I don't watch vods from WoL or HotS and think 'jesus fuck this was so much better', it's all starcraft and it's all awesome. I feel like what some of you miss isn't some abstract higher quality, but rather the experience of watching a new game, back when everything was brand new. If you think you've been stuck using "the same basic builds since 2010", then you either aren't paying attention or are playing the most efficient style. No matter how you balance the game, there will always be one style that sticks out as the most consistent and the most highly-performing against a wide array of strategies. That doesn't mean it's the only viable strategy, that just means it's what people default to. You can play mech in TvZ, and it will work. You can play mech in TvP, and it will probably work. The only exception to this is when you are playing the absolute best players, in which case games will always default to either 'surprising build' or 'most efficient build'. This happens in every game. Every game has a efficient way to play, and surprising way to play, at the very highest level. This includes Starcraft II. Have fun, all of you I don't think the crowd at events is that different from LRs, it's just that people will less often express simple enjoyment online than strong dislikes, and once the balance whining starts it kinda feeds itself. I hope you caught TRUE's comment about his position in your power rank.  | ||
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Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On August 14 2016 12:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I don't think the crowd at events is that different from LRs, it's just that people will less often express simple enjoyment online than strong dislikes, and once the balance whining starts it kinda feeds itself. I hope you caught TRUE's comment about his position in your power rank. Oh yeah, this is totally true as well; silent majority and all that. Yup I did. He outperformed my ranking - but that's the thing, I'm not going to put him #4 (which is the highest I can reasonably place him, and would be arguably too high even after seeing his performance now) after seeing him lose to HeRoMaRinE 0-3 and play largely close sets with MaSa/ShoWTimE/Scarlett. The way I saw it, he was likely to either perform poorly and lose in the Ro32/Ro16 (~#20 material) or play very well and make - I was going to presume this was his ceiling - the round of 4, which is up to ~#4 material. This evens out and pushes him towards #13, not because of him lacking skill or lacking potential, but rather because he just hasn't shown his potential enough for me to feel comfortable placing him high. Same with Harstem, same with MajOr, same with Kelazhur, same with Scarlett, same with Polt. I rate people down if I'm unsure that they'll perform to a reasonably peak-level. Anyway, I think TRUE makes the finals and loses there, but the finals is likely to be very close and TRUE has a good shot at winning. Nerchio/Scarlett/uThermal/MarineLorD/ShoWTimE - all the players who I thought would have strong winrates against him if they'd get that far - have all fallen out, leaving him with a very manageable bracket. I might get an interview with him tomorrow depending on how things go Also - apparently the olimoleague caster made a comment about how the PR is EU biased, but he's more irrelevant than I am, so I'm not even going to dissect that. | ||
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RichardNPL
185 Posts
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Edit: Except Snute. Forgot about him. But Snute can be inconsistent anyway. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17244 Posts
On August 14 2016 12:33 Soularion wrote: One thing I've seen during my time being at DH that I don't see too much in LRs is people just.. genuinely enjoying the game. i enjoy the game. these "experts" who have been pissin', bitchin', and moanin' are a laugh.... some have been at it for 6 years. you see they understand game on a way more in depth level than you ever could... the pain and the agony these tortured souls go through due to the ignorance of the masses... they suffer more than the son of god for the virtuous brilliance. | ||
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Topin
Peru10103 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
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