On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
What about a certain Chinese Zerg vs Heart?
Chinese Zerg vs Bomber was just as crazy. Those god damn Chinese players went insane being locked up in a region for 3 years.
On September 17 2014 06:11 Paljas wrote: [quote] it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
I just like not having to spend twice as many resources to hold an attack as the attacker puts into it. Particularly since the terran can just pick the hellbats up as they get hit and start dropping everywhere as the slow banes waddle around and do nothing
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
He is most famous for writing the "Welcome to ZParcraft" editorial. He's very passionate about these types of things
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
Read what you want to read, I'm not the one opening the salt bag about builds that were already held less than one week after they came up.
On September 17 2014 06:27 Serinox wrote: Are we gonna post songs that fit Happy? Cool, can finally use this :D
Wow, been a while since I listened to Aqua. Some good europop there!
Yeah, I got sick of my playlist recently, so I thought fuck it and just put on an entire Eurodance playlist and was pleasantly surprised to find out that Aqua was more than Barbie Girl
On September 17 2014 06:12 Zenbrez wrote: [quote] It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
8 queen openings are not common. "It" is a pronoun, in this case referring to THE ARMORY. Invoking the word straw man to describe someone else's argument is one of the most annoying and overused tactics around.
On September 17 2014 06:12 Zenbrez wrote: [quote] It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
He is most famous for writing the "Welcome to ZParcraft" editorial. He's very passionate about these types of things
Doesn't mean he's wrong here. I agree with him when it comes to this game. Mini just had to hold. He was already on spire tech, and happy had 4 marines and zero turrets.
On September 17 2014 06:11 Paljas wrote: [quote] it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
He is most famous for writing the "Welcome to ZParcraft" editorial. He's very passionate about these types of things
Doesn't mean he's wrong here. I agree with him when it comes to this game. Mini just had to hold. He was already on spire tech, and happy had 4 marines and zero turrets.
I was just giving background, didn't insult TheDwf, just said he was passionate and used the article to show that he isn't afraid to voice his opinion, which is totally fine. And yeah I'm not saying the attack is unholdable, it's been held countless times. but when it isn't scouted or (sometimes) over-prepared for, it's almost an auto-win
On September 17 2014 06:15 Paljas wrote: [quote] losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
EPT
