★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
29%
★★★- Good game (4)
57%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (4)
67%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
14%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
7%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (10)
71%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
7%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
30%
★★★- Good game (3)
30%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
60%
★★★- Good game (2)
40%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
5 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
33%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Made a mistake with the polls, first poll following this comment is supposed to be losers match game 1
Poll: Recommend Winners Match Game 1?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (4)
33%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (6)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
17%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers Match Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (3)
38%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (5)
63%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
11%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
22%
★★★- Good game (6)
67%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4)
57%
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Winners Match Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
10%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (2)
20%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (7)
70%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Winners Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
13%
★★★- Good game (6)
75%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
13%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
30%
★★★- Good game (2)
20%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
40%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
29%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★- Good game (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
33%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Bunny must win this! WCS EU S3 Premier - Bunny is at ~ 10.46 % chances to qualify for Blizzcon 2014 ~ 71.86 % of the time Bunny wins this match and their Blizzcon chances go up to ~ 14.56 %. ~ 28.14 % of the time Bunny loses this match and their Blizzcon chances go down to ~ 0.01 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Happy is at ~ 0.42 % chances to qualify for Blizzcon 2014 ~ 67.86 % of the time Happy wins this match and their Blizzcon chances go up to ~ 0.62 %. ~ 32.14 % of the time Happy loses this match and their Blizzcon chances go down to ~ 0 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Miniraser is at ~ 0.01 % chances to qualify for Blizzcon 2014 ~ 30.64 % of the time Miniraser wins this match and their Blizzcon chances go up to ~ 0.01 %. ~ 69.36 % of the time Miniraser loses this match and their Blizzcon chances go down to ~ 0 %. ------------------------------------------------- - Harstem is at ~ 0.01 % chances to qualify for Blizzcon 2014 ~ 29.63 % of the time Harstem wins this match and their Blizzcon chances go up to ~ 0.01 %. ~ 70.37 % of the time Harstem loses this match and their Blizzcon chances go down to ~ 0 %.
On September 16 2014 23:48 brickrd wrote: its funny how native english speakers in the sc scene develop habits of typing in rushed/broken english because of korean english lol
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
29%
★★★- Good game (4)
57%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I'm just curious. Why do the casters always use phrases like "the base of X", "the army of Y", etc. Is it just to stuff more words when they speak? Does this sound incredibly awkward for anyone else?
It was smart from Harstem to make a fake collossus, place it on the side of his army to deliberatly trigger Bunny to focus that fake colo. But the little army of 3/4 marauder + 4/5marines was taking litteraly that was sniping the fake colo was taking litteraly no damage: no (real) colossus hit, and stalker focusing the vikings. So bunny's hit squad could snipe a fake colo and then a real one! If Harstem had made 4/5 zealot instead of 3/4 last stalker, he would have killed bunny's squad before having his true colossus killed
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (4)
67%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 01:31 Deathstar wrote: I'm just curious. Why do the casters always use phrases like "the base of X", "the army of Y", etc. Is it just to stuff more words when they speak? Does this sound incredibly awkward for anyone else?
I didn't noticed that... are the casters english natives? If not I'd say that it could be a reason of speech flow, or main language traits. Also, since some players have strange names too many consonants could be "heavy" for the tongue (ex: "Bunny's" easier to prnounce than "Harstem's")... mind that I'm not an english native.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
7%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (10)
71%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
7%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Harstem vs Bunny Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I think it kinds of shows in the interview that Bunny got a lot more comfortable. In his earlier interviews i had the impression he wanted to be anywhere but infront of the camera^^ Now he looks much more relaxed
On September 17 2014 02:16 KaneMX wrote: Don't know why they are pointing out Happy's TvZ winratio. Is there any Terran at Happys level or above who does not have a high TvZ winratio?
Based on the stats on Aligulac: If we compare Happys current form in TvZ to every other terran WCS EU Ro16, then only YoDa has a higher winrate, while Bunny, MMA, ForGG and Dayshi have lower winrates.
On September 17 2014 02:16 KaneMX wrote: Don't know why they are pointing out Happy's TvZ winratio. Is there any Terran at Happys level or above who does not have a high TvZ winratio?
Based on the stats on Aligulac: If we compare Happys current form in TvZ to every other terran WCS EU Ro16, then only YoDa has a higher winrate, while Bunny, MMA, ForGG and Dayshi have lower winrates.
On September 17 2014 02:16 KaneMX wrote: Don't know why they are pointing out Happy's TvZ winratio. Is there any Terran at Happys level or above who does not have a high TvZ winratio?
Based on the stats on Aligulac: If we compare Happys current form in TvZ to every other terran WCS EU Ro16, then only YoDa has a higher winrate, while Bunny, MMA, ForGG and Dayshi have lower winrates.
Okay, thank you. But I suppose all of those have TvZ winratios >60%?
On September 17 2014 02:16 KaneMX wrote: Don't know why they are pointing out Happy's TvZ winratio. Is there any Terran at Happys level or above who does not have a high TvZ winratio?
Based on the stats on Aligulac: If we compare Happys current form in TvZ to every other terran WCS EU Ro16, then only YoDa has a higher winrate, while Bunny, MMA, ForGG and Dayshi have lower winrates.
Okay, thank you. But I suppose all of those have TvZ winratios >60%?
Don't most WCS premier players have >60% win rates?
Also, Happy's ratings are probably inflated due to playing a ton of online cups.
Our spiritual liege, Miniraiser the First of His Name, is about to demonstrate why he is the greatest zerg in the world. Gaze in wonder, peasant wretches, at your season 3 champion to be.
HasuObs replaced Kaelaris as Apollo's hairdresser. With a lot experience in making unwanted hair disapppear, the german protoss is well-suited and well-prepared to overtake that job. Also, since it is a widely known fact that Kaelaris glues Apollo's lost hair to his head in an effort for a Nicolaj Coster-Waldau cosplay, HasuObs decided to grab some of that (instead of being paid by ESL) to fix his very german hair.
So far, battle.net seems to have decided that tension is great to increase viewership and has thus blocked any access to a StarCraft lobby for the duration of another 20 minutes. Great and innovative thought!
On September 17 2014 02:31 stuchiu wrote: I like how everyone knows TLO hates being called creative, thus forcing them all to talk about how creative he is.
What are your thoughts on zooming out during fights?
I like getting a view of the battlefield before the engagement begins, but when the battle occurs I prefer normal zoom-in. Not enough feel of action when zoomed out!
Also, since it is a widely known fact that Kaelaris glues Apollo's lost hair to his head in an effort for a Nicolaj Coster-Waldau cosplay, HasuObs decided to grab some of that (instead of being paid by ESL) to fix his very german hair.
HasuObs replaced Kaelaris as Apollo's hairdresser. With a lot experience in making unwanted hair disapppear, the german protoss is well-suited and well-prepared to overtake that job. Also, since it is a widely known fact that Kaelaris glues Apollo's lost hair to his head in an effort for a Nicolaj Coster-Waldau cosplay, HasuObs decided to grab some of that (instead of being paid by ESL) to fix his very german hair.
So far, battle.net seems to have decided that tension is great to increase viewership and has thus blocked any access to a StarCraft lobby for the duration of another 20 minutes. Great and innovative thought!
Still being fluffy: Funka and Redeye are exchanging excessive thoughts about people. Somehow, they keep focussing on Happy - no, wait, they reached San. "San will ALWAYS BE that close to the end of StarCraft 2 because he's that kind of player" - what the heck, Funka? Oh well. Now, they're talking about, umm, another guy. Well. So, since I do not want to write down everything of this, here's a joke: a cathlic, a muslim and a jew walk into a bar. they have a decent conversation because they are all nice human beings and get along quite nice with each other. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT, YOU PREJUDICE-BURDENED, STEREOTYPICAL GUY?? Well, battle.net seems to be back up, so let's get ready!
...okay, nevermind. They're talking about Yoda. He's a nice guy. Just not in TvZ. He's ravaging zergs. Rude.
HasuObs replaced Kaelaris as Apollo's hairdresser. With a lot experience in making unwanted hair disapppear, the german protoss is well-suited and well-prepared to overtake that job. Also, since it is a widely known fact that Kaelaris glues Apollo's lost hair to his head in an effort for a Nicolaj Coster-Waldau cosplay, HasuObs decided to grab some of that (instead of being paid by ESL) to fix his very german hair.
So far, battle.net seems to have decided that tension is great to increase viewership and has thus blocked any access to a StarCraft lobby for the duration of another 20 minutes. Great and innovative thought!
Still being fluffy: Funka and Redeye are exchanging excessive thoughts about people. Somehow, they keep focussing on Happy - no, wait, they reached San. "San will ALWAYS BE that close to the end of StarCraft 2 because he's that kind of player" - what the heck, Funka? Oh well. Now, they're talking about, umm, another guy. Well. So, since I do not want to write down everything of this, here's a joke: a cathlic, a muslim and a jew walk into a bar. they have a decent conversation because they are all nice human beings and get along quite nice with each other. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT, YOU PREJUDICE-BURDENED, STEREOTYPICAL GUY?? Well, battle.net seems to be back up, so let's get ready!
...okay, nevermind. They're talking about Yoda. He's a nice guy. Just not in TvZ. He's ravaging zergs. Rude.
Haha, Redeye just shut down Funka hard because they really want to start. So, let's get it on - FUNKA BETTER HURRY TO YOUR OBSERVER CAGE
On September 17 2014 02:33 DJHelium wrote: What are your thoughts on zooming out during fights?
I like getting a view of the battlefield before the engagement begins, but when the battle occurs I prefer normal zoom-in. Not enough feel of action when zoomed out!
Thinking the same. If there is time to zoom out before the battle, luckily good observers do so. Exceptions are very very big late game fights, I like the the stage 1 zoom out therefor.
HasuObs replaced Kaelaris as Apollo's hairdresser. With a lot experience in making unwanted hair disapppear, the german protoss is well-suited and well-prepared to overtake that job. Also, since it is a widely known fact that Kaelaris glues Apollo's lost hair to his head in an effort for a Nicolaj Coster-Waldau cosplay, HasuObs decided to grab some of that (instead of being paid by ESL) to fix his very german hair.
So far, battle.net seems to have decided that tension is great to increase viewership and has thus blocked any access to a StarCraft lobby for the duration of another 20 minutes. Great and innovative thought!
Still being fluffy: Funka and Redeye are exchanging excessive thoughts about people. Somehow, they keep focussing on Happy - no, wait, they reached San. "San will ALWAYS BE that close to the end of StarCraft 2 because he's that kind of player" - what the heck, Funka? Oh well. Now, they're talking about, umm, another guy. Well. So, since I do not want to write down everything of this, here's a joke: a cathlic, a muslim and a jew walk into a bar. they have a decent conversation because they are all nice human beings and get along quite nice with each other. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT, YOU PREJUDICE-BURDENED, STEREOTYPICAL GUY?? Well, battle.net seems to be back up, so let's get ready!
...okay, nevermind. They're talking about Yoda. He's a nice guy. Just not in TvZ. He's ravaging zergs. Rude.
Haha, Redeye just shut down Funka hard because they really want to start. So, let's get it on - FUNKA BETTER HURRY TO YOUR OBSERVER CAGE
It starts, seriously! Map is Overgrowth, so let's go!
0:00 HappyTop right, Miniraser bottom left 1:30 12rax, 12gas for Happy 2:10 15 hatch for Miniraser 2:45 reaper started for Happy 3:30 Miniraser's overlord sees the reaper, starting gas
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
30%
★★★- Good game (3)
30%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 02:51 BlackCompany wrote: Uh i was watching with half an eye, how the hell did Miniraser win that while suiciding all his mutas? Happys banshee didnt do enough damage?
when he was done with his banshee harass, he was at only 34 scv's, i remembered thinking that his macro must have been slipping up badly, though i wasnt sure at that time, it seemed very low but i am no terran.
Guys, there is no way the average viewer can tell the difference between a random GM player and the top Kespa pros. Happy's macro was virtually indistinguishable from Flash's in this game imo.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
30%
★★★- Good game (3)
30%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
20%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 02:51 BlackCompany wrote: Uh i was watching with half an eye, how the hell did Miniraser win that while suiciding all his mutas? Happys banshee didnt do enough damage?
Happy attacked Mini's 4th with half an army. Got cleaned up easily and died to counter-attack.
On September 17 2014 02:51 BlackCompany wrote: Uh i was watching with half an eye, how the hell did Miniraser win that while suiciding all his mutas? Happys banshee didnt do enough damage?
when he was done with his banshee harass, he was at only 34 scv's, i remembered thinking that his macro must have been slipping up badly, though i wasnt sure at that time, it seemed very low but i am no terran.
On September 17 2014 02:51 BlackCompany wrote: Uh i was watching with half an eye, how the hell did Miniraser win that while suiciding all his mutas? Happys banshee didnt do enough damage?
Happy attacked Mini's 4th with half an army. Got cleaned up easily and died to counter-attack.
Thanks guys. Was really confused there for a moment why the hell Miniraser won that He really needs to stop looking so damn good, otherwise i will feel very stupid for not picking him to advance :p
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
60%
★★★- Good game (2)
40%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
5 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
33%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
60%
★★★- Good game (2)
40%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
5 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
33%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Miniraser vs Happy Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 03:09 Larkin wrote: Wow really disappointing from Happy.
Calm down Miniraiser you haven't won the Championship
ahah I thought the same
You lads suck, the boy is on his way to WCS round 8 after going through Stardust, Snute and Patience in his previous group. he can pump himself up after each win for 5 minutes if he wants to.
On September 17 2014 03:11 Yorkie wrote: Guys don't get mad. Starcraft needs some more popping off/showing emotion after wins. he was excited, let it go
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (4)
33%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (6)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
17%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I think something super smart from Harstem pov would be bringing a probe in front of Happy's base. Pretty sure Happy would build 4 bunkers if he saw a probe in front of his base
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (3)
38%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (5)
63%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
22%
★★★- Good game (6)
67%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 04:28 FuRRie wrote: It's good to see Harstem showing emotions, means he cares.
Also, RedeYe being boss again.
Pretty sure every players care a lot, even if they don't show it !
I dont know how other players feel, but the ones that are emotionless are just generally drained. They tried so fucking hard and now that its gone, everything just feels empty, colorless.
So its not that they dont care, its just the pain and disappointment just shut them down
On September 17 2014 04:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Really great how they talk with Funka about the games, really enjoy it. He has such knowledge of the game and yet we never heard his opinions before.
It's cool hearing that because it takes a lot of game knowledge to effectively observe.
On September 17 2014 04:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Really great how they talk with Funka about the games, really enjoy it. He has such knowledge of the game and yet we never heard his opinions before.
There is a reason why he's the best french caster.
On September 17 2014 04:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Really great how they talk with Funka about the games, really enjoy it. He has such knowledge of the game and yet we never heard his opinions before.
There is a reason why he's the best french caster.
On September 17 2014 04:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Really great how they talk with Funka about the games, really enjoy it. He has such knowledge of the game and yet we never heard his opinions before.
There is a reason why he's the best french caster.
On September 17 2014 04:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Really great how they talk with Funka about the games, really enjoy it. He has such knowledge of the game and yet we never heard his opinions before.
There is a reason why he's the best french caster.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4)
57%
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (2)
20%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (7)
70%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (2)
20%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (7)
70%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I can't understand why everyone likes Miniraser all of the sudden. Just because he showed a bit more emotion than we usually see? And we're just gonna ignore his horrible games today?
On September 17 2014 05:21 Serinox wrote: I can't understand why everyone likes Miniraser all of the sudden. Just because he showed a bit more emotion than we usually see? And we're just gonna ignore his horrible games today?
Tbf I didn't see all the games today. He's handsome and he played well in round of 32, and him making it to the playoffs would be a big deal.
On September 17 2014 05:21 Serinox wrote: I can't understand why everyone likes Miniraser all of the sudden. Just because he showed a bit more emotion than we usually see? And we're just gonna ignore his horrible games today?
Well, he kinda crushed 2 guys in the Ro32 that are both going to Blizzcon.
On September 17 2014 05:21 Serinox wrote: I can't understand why everyone likes Miniraser all of the sudden. Just because he showed a bit more emotion than we usually see? And we're just gonna ignore his horrible games today?
Well, he kinda crushed 2 guys in the Ro32 that are both going to Blizzcon.
Sure, but no one got as excited about that as about him today.
On September 17 2014 05:21 Serinox wrote: I can't understand why everyone likes Miniraser all of the sudden. Just because he showed a bit more emotion than we usually see? And we're just gonna ignore his horrible games today?
Well, he kinda crushed 2 guys in the Ro32 that are both going to Blizzcon.
Sure, but no one got as excited about that as about him today.
I think that's because people were so sad about Snute
On September 17 2014 05:21 Serinox wrote: I can't understand why everyone likes Miniraser all of the sudden. Just because he showed a bit more emotion than we usually see? And we're just gonna ignore his horrible games today?
Well, he kinda crushed 2 guys in the Ro32 that are both going to Blizzcon.
Sure, but no one got as excited about that as about him today.
Yeah, his results then got people hyped for him today. What, did you think people were supposed to anticipate Miniraiser's success against Stardust and Snute and get pre-hyped for him in the Ro32?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
13%
★★★- Good game (6)
75%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
13%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
13%
★★★- Good game (6)
75%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
13%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
WC3 could also be played linearly. You only needed 1 build per matchup and left it down to execution. At least that was the explanation Happy gave when he went to that DH/MLG a long time ago.
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
would be crazy to have two foreigners going to blizzcon that's like double the amount we had at the last one
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
would be crazy to have two foreigners going to blizzcon that's like double the amount we had at the last one
Yeah and Naniwa was the 16th seed, tied with Revival
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
WC3 could also be played linearly. You only needed 1 build per matchup and left it down to execution. At least that was the explanation Happy gave when he went to that DH/MLG a long time ago.
Well, not many builds but certainly not one. But sure, UD looked like it didn't do many builds. Mostly same heroes as well. But in comparison it was more about execution, yeah.
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
Stockholm is the hail mary for every good player. My bet is sOs, MMA, soO, INNo, Rain, ForGG, Solar, basically anyone who has even the smallest chance of qualifying will probably go.
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
Stockholm is the hail mary for every good player. My bet is sOs, MMA, soO, INNo, Rain, ForGG, Solar, basically anyone who has even the smallest chance of qualifying will probably go.
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
Stockholm is the hail mary for every good player. My bet is sOs, MMA, soO, INNo, Rain, ForGG, Solar, basically anyone who has even the smallest chance of qualifying will probably go.
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
WC3 could also be played linearly. You only needed 1 build per matchup and left it down to execution. At least that was the explanation Happy gave when he went to that DH/MLG a long time ago.
Well, not many builds but certainly not one. But sure, UD looked like it didn't do many builds. Mostly same heroes as well. But in comparison it was more about execution, yeah.
The only tournament I saw was Ted win the only tournament for Undead at WCG. He is the true WC3 God.
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
Stockholm is the hail mary for every good player. My bet is sOs, MMA, soO, INNo, Rain, ForGG, Solar, basically anyone who has even the smallest chance of qualifying will probably go.
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
WC3 could also be played linearly. You only needed 1 build per matchup and left it down to execution. At least that was the explanation Happy gave when he went to that DH/MLG a long time ago.
Well, not many builds but certainly not one. But sure, UD looked like it didn't do many builds. Mostly same heroes as well. But in comparison it was more about execution, yeah.
The only tournament I saw was Ted win the only tournament for Undead at WCG. He is the true WC3 God.
Which country's version of ToD is that? Edit: Obviously he'd turn out to be Korean. Jeez, they're everywhere.
On September 17 2014 05:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow bunny, didn't expect him to talk about blizzcon damn balls
With this win, he's now 650 points behind the 16th-place player (MMA). He's still in the hunt, going to Stockholm. And he's shown that on a good day, he can beat some of the toughest competition around (Polt, Hyun, Stardust, Oz).
Stockholm is the hail mary for every good player. My bet is sOs, MMA, soO, INNo, Rain, ForGG, Solar, basically anyone who has even the smallest chance of qualifying will probably go.
I will never forget Happy playing in (I think) the Ro16 of Season 3 last year, where Kaelaris asked Apollo what Happy was going to do, and Apollo just rattled off Happy's one build order, from memory, through to about the 15-minute mark.
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
WC3 could also be played linearly. You only needed 1 build per matchup and left it down to execution. At least that was the explanation Happy gave when he went to that DH/MLG a long time ago.
Well, not many builds but certainly not one. But sure, UD looked like it didn't do many builds. Mostly same heroes as well. But in comparison it was more about execution, yeah.
The only tournament I saw was Ted win the only tournament for Undead at WCG. He is the true WC3 God.
Which country's version of ToD is that? Edit: Obviously he'd turn out to be Korean. Jeez, they're everywhere.
On September 17 2014 05:51 Circumstance wrote: I will never forget Happy playing in (I think) the Ro16 of Season 3 last year, where Kaelaris asked Apollo what Happy was going to do, and Apollo just rattled off Happy's one build order, from memory, through to about the 15-minute mark.
I don’t understand people that say that I play the same build. I always use different builds, randomly. If I open up with gasless expand in TvP, why don’t you come up to Korean players, and ask them "Hey, why do you always open up with gas? Predictable!" I found those accusations to be stupid, honestly. I play those strategies I find to be more effective. I never copied anyone, or even asked for an advice, I always do everything myself. You try to copy someone, you will never surpass him.
On September 17 2014 05:38 Deathstar wrote: So was the first set between Happy and Mini warm up or is Happy's TvZ that flawed?
Happy's tournament play is flawed. I don't know about his actual matchup since every pro swears he plays better on ladder.
He definitely doesn't look like he gets pressured
Well he is pretty experienced, he used to be the best european undead player in Wc3 so he got a long history... can't say if he choked much in Wc3 as UD was pretty underpowered anyway.
WC3 could also be played linearly. You only needed 1 build per matchup and left it down to execution. At least that was the explanation Happy gave when he went to that DH/MLG a long time ago.
Well, not many builds but certainly not one. But sure, UD looked like it didn't do many builds. Mostly same heroes as well. But in comparison it was more about execution, yeah.
The only tournament I saw was Ted win the only tournament for Undead at WCG. He is the true WC3 God.
Which country's version of ToD is that? Edit: Obviously he'd turn out to be Korean. Jeez, they're everywhere.
On September 17 2014 05:48 boxerfred wrote:
On September 17 2014 05:47 KaneMX wrote:
On September 17 2014 05:45 boxerfred wrote:
On September 17 2014 05:45 KaneMX wrote:
On September 17 2014 05:44 boxerfred wrote: so I won those WCS EU tickets. Anyone willing to go to WCS EU tomorrow for free with me?
Oh damn I'd say yes if Bayern wouldn't be playing CL
ah cmon
its tlo and vortix, as your sig says
F*ck you're right...I'll PM you later if should make up my mind, k?
No, you make up your mind now and join me tomorrow
Get a room, you two! =p
GET #PASSION AND COME TO COLOGNE TOMORROW WE'LL BE THE LR TRIO OF BADASSERRY where's gumba by the way
It's his birthday tomorrow so he's probably getting drunk
On September 17 2014 05:51 Circumstance wrote: I will never forget Happy playing in (I think) the Ro16 of Season 3 last year, where Kaelaris asked Apollo what Happy was going to do, and Apollo just rattled off Happy's one build order, from memory, through to about the 15-minute mark.
I don’t understand people that say that I play the same build. I always use different builds, randomly. If I open up with gasless expand in TvP, why don’t you come up to Korean players, and ask them "Hey, why do you always open up with gas? Predictable!" I found those accusations to be stupid, honestly. I play those strategies I find to be more effective. I never copied anyone, or even asked for an advice, I always do everything myself. You try to copy someone, you will never surpass him.
On September 17 2014 05:51 Circumstance wrote: I will never forget Happy playing in (I think) the Ro16 of Season 3 last year, where Kaelaris asked Apollo what Happy was going to do, and Apollo just rattled off Happy's one build order, from memory, through to about the 15-minute mark.
I don’t understand people that say that I play the same build. I always use different builds, randomly. If I open up with gasless expand in TvP, why don’t you come up to Korean players, and ask them "Hey, why do you always open up with gas? Predictable!" I found those accusations to be stupid, honestly. I play those strategies I find to be more effective. I never copied anyone, or even asked for an advice, I always do everything myself. You try to copy someone, you will never surpass him.
It's not an English site, so I'm not sure, but that translation sounds like Happy saying "my builds are my own, I don't copy anyone else", not "I use plenty of different builds".
On September 17 2014 05:51 Circumstance wrote: I will never forget Happy playing in (I think) the Ro16 of Season 3 last year, where Kaelaris asked Apollo what Happy was going to do, and Apollo just rattled off Happy's one build order, from memory, through to about the 15-minute mark.
I don’t understand people that say that I play the same build. I always use different builds, randomly. If I open up with gasless expand in TvP, why don’t you come up to Korean players, and ask them "Hey, why do you always open up with gas? Predictable!" I found those accusations to be stupid, honestly. I play those strategies I find to be more effective. I never copied anyone, or even asked for an advice, I always do everything myself. You try to copy someone, you will never surpass him.
It's not an English site, so I'm not sure, but that translation sounds like Happy saying "my builds are my own, I don't copy anyone else", not "I use plenty of different builds".
Pretty sure Happy didn't answer those questions in German, so it's probably not a translation. And he literally said "I always use different builds, randomly."
I haven't watched SC2 in a while so I can't comment on how true that is.
My understanding of the game isn't nearly as refined as some, but I feel that Happy loses so many games because of his unwillingness to attack at moments when he needs to. In fact, I feel that that single instinct is what makes the top echelon as good as they are.
I mean obviously there are times to defend, expand, wait a few minutes for an upgrade or what have you. But I dunno, sometimes the opponent's build and fluctuations in army size based on how the game goes give you "timings" that aren't really based around your own build but about how the game played out.
Furthermore, if you have the stronger economy and a SLIGHTLY better army isn't it wise to move across the map and trade? I feel that the conventional foreigner pro wisdom is to sit back and macro because I can defend with my larger army while pumping out more units because of my stronger economy, but add in your army moving across the map to trade and don't you really create an even bigger advantage? Yes you can make the game come down to one engagement when you get maxed before him but by trading earlier in the game you expand on that army lead multiple times in a game instead of just at one instance where your maxed army fights his close to maxed army.
I don't know. Maybe that is all bullshit, but I feel that in general the Koreans are attacking and pressing advantages way more often than the typical foreign pro who has it in there mind that they need to be at 200 supply to take a fight.
On September 17 2014 06:04 boxerfred wrote: you guys should get your priorities straight; move to cologne already
I was there around February I think. There are nicer cities in Germany.
This is so true. Cologne actually sucks. There's a dome that has been blackened by smog over years and years .. carnival culture is terrible. We're pretty open and liberal in general though.
On September 17 2014 06:04 boxerfred wrote: you guys should get your priorities straight; move to cologne already
I was there around February I think. There are nicer cities in Germany.
This is so true. Cologne actually sucks. There's a dome that has been blackened by smog over years and years .. carnival culture is terrible. We're pretty open and liberal in general though.
I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
30%
★★★- Good game (2)
20%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
40%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
Yeah, and if they scout it, it can still do damage. OR, they can just turn away. The indirect damage done by making them make roaches and whatever is enough.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
Yeah I also don't get why more people don't open hellbats in some way. Even if you don't do a big all in, just getting the armory for 100/100 makes your hellions 10 times better and can always do some dmg without that much of a commitment since you'll always make 6 hellions anyway.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
don't talk if you can't even see that there is a port here. it's not all inish but an heavy commitment that is instantly shut down by defensive roaches.
On September 17 2014 06:13 royalroadweed wrote: Changing back a few hellbats into hellions to chase down the drones that were running away was a cute move.
i think putting two hellbats into a medivac and drop them on top would have been better though
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
Allin-ish means that if the attack fails, you're way behind. If roaches are out and the push is defended, you are pretty open for a counter attack. Also, while you can still load in and drop, there's no way to push creep back which should allow zerg to safely take a fast fourth. (imo ofc)
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
Then your opponent opens Roaches and you're left with delayed third + delayed stim + delayed ups + no Tanks/Banshees vs a Roach counter.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
don't talk if you can't even see that there is a port here.
Don't talk unless you're aware there is more than 1 variation of a build.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
Now you talking crazy. Everyone knows that scouting leads to death. Look at Falsh vs Zest IEM Finals. Flash only lost the game he scouted!
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
Allin-ish means that if the attack fails, you're way behind. If roaches are out and the push is defended, you are pretty open for a counter attack. Also, while you can still load in and drop, there's no way to push creep back which should allow zerg to safely take a fast fourth. (imo ofc)
But you're not behind. Maybe I'll upload a game sometime and show the timings, there's VERY little difference, except that hellbats are basically guaranteed to do more damage than hellions. And if the zerg is prepared you back off, like you would with your hellions.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
don't talk if you can't even see that there is a port here.
Don't talk unless you're aware there is more than 1 variation of a build.
we're talking about a game where happy heaviliy commited to a port and an armory delaying his 3rd, upgrades and production. But it's not something that'll put him back at all if it fails. Ok mr know it all.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Should've expected this kind of response. One game != every game. When one building spells the difference between standard macro play and a big hellbat attack it is very hard to scout. Not to mention if you're going to go roaches reactively you have to spot the armory in enough time to build the warren and complete roaches before the attack hits, which is a small window
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
It can include a bane nest, but it's absolutely not the standard
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
Allin-ish means that if the attack fails, you're way behind. If roaches are out and the push is defended, you are pretty open for a counter attack. Also, while you can still load in and drop, there's no way to push creep back which should allow zerg to safely take a fast fourth. (imo ofc)
But you're not behind. Maybe I'll upload a game sometime and show the timings, there's VERY little difference, except that hellbats are basically guaranteed to do more damage than hellbats. And if the zerg is prepared you back off, like you would with your hellions.
Wait, that hellbat attack is not really a sharp timing but more a "let's hope he hasn't 10 banes and/or 5 roaches". I'm not saying this build is bad. I'm just saying that in case it totally gets shut down, you're way behind. More behind when eg. cloaked banshee play gets shut down hard.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
If the zerg blindly opens roaches/is going for a big roach or roach bane attack then he can shut it down very easily. It's what I don't like about the build. it tends to result in bops either way
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
a wall, queens and a spine can hold such pushes just fine
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
defensive roaches put you ahead. like way ahead.
Why? Can't teran just go for 1-2 tanks while pumping out a 3rd or a double ebay? I don't get how 5-10 roaches put you way behind, especially since they are slow and can't counter drop play.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★- Good game (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
33%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★- Good game (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
33%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
Allin-ish means that if the attack fails, you're way behind. If roaches are out and the push is defended, you are pretty open for a counter attack. Also, while you can still load in and drop, there's no way to push creep back which should allow zerg to safely take a fast fourth. (imo ofc)
But you're not behind. Maybe I'll upload a game sometime and show the timings, there's VERY little difference, except that hellbats are basically guaranteed to do more damage than hellbats. And if the zerg is prepared you back off, like you would with your hellions.
Wait, that hellbat attack is not really a sharp timing but more a "let's hope he hasn't 10 banes and/or 5 roaches". I'm not saying this build is bad. I'm just saying that in case it totally gets shut down, you're way behind. More behind when eg. cloaked banshee play gets shut down hard.
But that's a theoretical assumption, I do the same tvz build every game and sometimes they are prepared, but I'm not behind. I win the vast majority of my games. I'll play some games tonight and post a thread on the strategy forum for people to look at replays and poke my build from there.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
defensive roaches put you ahead. like way ahead.
Why? Can't teran just go for 1-2 tanks while pumping out a 3rd or a double ebay? I don't get how 5-10 roaches put you way behind, especially since they are slow and can't counter drop play.
well you just take 0 damage, get your 4th and creep and drones since the T can't go out on the map. And the 2-2 timing is coming so much later that it won't even threaten the Z 4th.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★- Good game (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
33%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
33%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
defensive roaches put you ahead. like way ahead.
Why? Can't teran just go for 1-2 tanks while pumping out a 3rd or a double ebay? I don't get how 5-10 roaches put you way behind, especially since they are slow and can't counter drop play.
well you just take 0 damage, get your 4th and creep and drones since the T can't go out on the map. And the 2-2 timing is coming so much later that it won't even threaten the Z 4th.
Nah you can't get a 4th that fast if you don't kill the hellbats. Drop play will kill you.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Is there a hardcounter to this tactic that is not a build order (eg. 2base muta)? Because if not, it should be a reliable early midgame push that has a huge potential to put Terran in a lead.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all. It hits the exact same time the 6 hellions hit, except they're just suddenly stupid strong against very little units, or lings.. which are dead weight.
Thing is, Zergs sometimes remember that scouting is not forbidden.
You mean they sometimes get lucky. Normal scouting only reveals a standard reactor hellion build...
Yeah, when you sacrifice an Overlord into 4 Marines after standing 2 minutes in their sight, probably.
Should've expected this kind of response. One game != every game. When one building spells the difference between standard macro play and a big hellbat attack it is very hard to scout. Not to mention if you're going to go roaches reactively you have to spot the armory in enough time to build the warren and complete roaches before the attack hits, which is a small window
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
It can include a bane nest, but it's absolutely not the standard
Why not? When there are new threats, the standard has to adapt.
On September 17 2014 06:20 DJHelium wrote: Miniraser must've cancelled his banelings, right?
I don't understand why Zerg players morph their banelings RIGHT IN FRONT of Terran's army. ALWAYS.
They count on show-off stutter step into morphed banes obviously.
Sometimes in Gold and lower the enemy actually runs back when they see morphed banes out of fear that they're going to explode all over their army quite soon, so could be a reflex.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
On September 17 2014 06:20 DJHelium wrote: Miniraser must've cancelled his banelings, right?
I don't understand why Zerg players morph their banelings RIGHT IN FRONT of Terran's army. ALWAYS.
They count on show-off stutter step into morphed banes obviously.
Sometimes in Gold and lower the enemy actually runs back when they see morphed banes out of fear that they're going to explode all over their army quite soon, so could be a reflex.
I mean morphed banes btw, not morphing still. So it is a double gamble or plain panic.
On September 17 2014 06:25 Undead1993 wrote: ahhh i am so proud of you happy! would have been heartbreaking to see you go out here after that unfortunate loss against jjakji. yay happy <3
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
On September 17 2014 06:25 Undead1993 wrote: ahhh i am so proud of you happy! would have been heartbreaking to see you go out here after that unfortunate loss against jjakji. yay happy <3
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
I just like not having to spend twice as many resources to hold an attack as the attacker puts into it. Particularly since the terran can just pick the hellbats up as they get hit and start dropping everywhere as the slow banes waddle around and do nothing
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
What about a certain Chinese Zerg vs Heart?
Chinese Zerg vs Bomber was just as crazy. Those god damn Chinese players went insane being locked up in a region for 3 years.
On September 17 2014 06:11 Paljas wrote: [quote] it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
I just like not having to spend twice as many resources to hold an attack as the attacker puts into it. Particularly since the terran can just pick the hellbats up as they get hit and start dropping everywhere as the slow banes waddle around and do nothing
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
He is most famous for writing the "Welcome to ZParcraft" editorial. He's very passionate about these types of things
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
Read what you want to read, I'm not the one opening the salt bag about builds that were already held less than one week after they came up.
Wow, been a while since I listened to Aqua. Some good europop there!
Yeah, I got sick of my playlist recently, so I thought fuck it and just put on an entire Eurodance playlist and was pleasantly surprised to find out that Aqua was more than Barbie Girl
On September 17 2014 06:12 Zenbrez wrote: [quote] It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
8 queen openings are not common. "It" is a pronoun, in this case referring to THE ARMORY. Invoking the word straw man to describe someone else's argument is one of the most annoying and overused tactics around.
On September 17 2014 06:12 Zenbrez wrote: [quote] It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
On September 17 2014 06:10 Zenbrez wrote: I don't know why more terrans don't do hellbat pushes. The amount of zergs I "accidentally" kill with the push is stupid, or minimally, do huge damage. While I understand I don't play people of the same caliber, the standard zerg opening does not do well against it at all.
it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
He is most famous for writing the "Welcome to ZParcraft" editorial. He's very passionate about these types of things
Doesn't mean he's wrong here. I agree with him when it comes to this game. Mini just had to hold. He was already on spire tech, and happy had 4 marines and zero turrets.
On September 17 2014 06:11 Paljas wrote: [quote] it can be somewhat allinnish
It isn't. It's literally the exact same as the 2 reaper 6 hellion build, except you make the armory instead of the starport, it hits the exact same time. Behind it you make your 3rd CC, rax 2-3 and eng bays. It's a macro build, except instead of hellions, it's hellbats.
losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
not willing to take anything away off you, but since 5 pages, you always have a subtle salty tone in your posts. kinda feels like you're an old grandpa mumbling away on the annoying kids
He is most famous for writing the "Welcome to ZParcraft" editorial. He's very passionate about these types of things
Doesn't mean he's wrong here. I agree with him when it comes to this game. Mini just had to hold. He was already on spire tech, and happy had 4 marines and zero turrets.
I was just giving background, didn't insult TheDwf, just said he was passionate and used the article to show that he isn't afraid to voice his opinion, which is totally fine. And yeah I'm not saying the attack is unholdable, it's been held countless times. but when it isn't scouted or (sometimes) over-prepared for, it's almost an auto-win
On September 17 2014 06:15 Paljas wrote: [quote] losing all your helions for potential drone kills is somewhat allinnish itself. ye, you dont lose the game, but zerg can gain a huge lead
The only way to really kill the hellbats is opening roaches though, which balances out the self inflicted damage to economy for both players unless the zerg is going for a big roach attack anyway
No, macro builds can include a ~6'40 bane nest out of safety. soO played like that vs Flash in GSL.
And banelings aren't even cost effective against hellbats. You need an overwhelming amount of them. I suppose it is preferable to dying though
What the hell with your obsession about "cost-efficiency" (really top3 overrated concept in SC2 game analysis...)? You don't care about cost-efficiency since you're ahead if you hold the push without losing drones.
cost-efficiency only matters when you're Mvp and have to win with 7 scvs against 29 or 20 supply against the 100 or so Tefel had or whatever the fuck that was.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
8 queen openings are not common. "It" is a pronoun, in this case referring to THE ARMORY. Invoking the word straw man to describe someone else's argument is one of the most annoying and overused tactics around.
Current meta knows 4 queens afaik, 2 injecting, 2 creeping.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
8 queen openings are not common. "It" is a pronoun, in this case referring to THE ARMORY. Invoking the word straw man to describe someone else's argument is one of the most annoying and overused tactics around.
Current meta knows 4 queens afaik, 2 injecting, 2 creeping.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
8 queen openings are not common. "It" is a pronoun, in this case referring to THE ARMORY. Invoking the word straw man to describe someone else's argument is one of the most annoying and overused tactics around.
Current meta knows 4 queens afaik, 2 injecting, 2 creeping.
5-7.
so let's take a tournament for reference and check all tvz in that. What about last IEM?
edit: yes, some zergs go up to 5 and some might even go up to 7. but the vast majority of games is 4 queens currently. your way of discussion sucks though, so I'll leave it as it is. I loved your article on terran but your talk here is way more arrogant than actually passionate.
One Spine + lings/Queens (6+) with energy saved for Transfuses or defensive Roaches or defensive banes.
You don't need to scout the Armory to hold the push.
Sure, just build 6 queens with transfuse energy + 2 more for injects. That surely won't take a long ass time, gimp your creep spread, and cost a shit load of minerals. And of course you don't need to scout it to hold the attack, you just have to blindly go roaches/a lot of banes and either hope he isn't going 3 cc or go for a big attack.
Don't want to burst your bubble but Queen-heavy openings are common in TvZ since more than 2 years. And nice job with the strawman, changing "you don't need to scout the Armory" to "you don't need to scout it"!
8 queen openings are not common. "It" is a pronoun, in this case referring to THE ARMORY. Invoking the word straw man to describe someone else's argument is one of the most annoying and overused tactics around.
Current meta knows 4 queens afaik, 2 injecting, 2 creeping.
5-7.
so let's take a tournament for reference and check all tvz in that. What about last IEM?
edit: yes, some zergs go up to 5 and some might even go up to 7. but the vast majority of games is 4 queens currently. your way of discussion sucks though, so I'll leave it as it is.
No, the standard is 5 for macro lings/banes/mutas play, and I have absolutely no idea how you can even talk about "my way of discussion" when I wrote literally 3 signs in my last message. 100% gratuitous but whatever.
EPT
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