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On October 14 2013 11:30 danteafk wrote:
So glad that Naniwa made it this far.
Foreigners are currently the only excitement in stacked Korean tournaments.
Blizzcon will be pretty sad without foreigners, since a full Korean tourney is just boring. No storyline, no excitements, no emotions.
I can't even understand this anymore, less you don't even bother with investing in the Korean scene. Not only do I see the Korean side of things containing far more and better stories, not only do I see them bringing more excitement (via gameplay), but really there isn't even that great of an emotional disparity either imo.
It's not like the foreign scene is littered with awesome personalities like Dimaga, Incontrol Stephano etc. Not to mention their are Koreans like Hyun and MC who consistently try to entertain with antics outside of their gameplay even barring the language barrier.
Yeah Naniwa winning would've been cool, but if you open your eyes there were 3 other good, possibly even better, stories to be had in the semis alone. Naniwa winning continues the classic underdog foreigner vs Korean story. Not much would've changed if he won. I already considered Naniwa a top 3 foreigner and he would've remained as such. We already knew he was one of the most reliable in competing with Koreans. Would that suddenly shoot him into the upper echelon of protoss players? Would Koreans still not grossly outclass the average foreigner come tomorrow?
Meanwhile, Curious is fighting to finally claim a big win internationally and had looked damn good this tournament after being so mediocre in HotS for several months.
Hyun is on the edge of qualifying for Blizzcon mainly off of these international events.
Life, one of the best sc2 players ever in his prime and royal roader, is fighting back into relevancy with his first big win in some time. Oh, and he's still only 16.
Aren't those interesting as well?
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On October 14 2013 12:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 11:30 danteafk wrote:
So glad that Naniwa made it this far.
Foreigners are currently the only excitement in stacked Korean tournaments.
Blizzcon will be pretty sad without foreigners, since a full Korean tourney is just boring. No storyline, no excitements, no emotions. I can't even understand this anymore, less you don't even bother with investing in the Korean scene. Not only do I see the Korean side of things containing far more and better stories, not only do I see them bringing more excitement (via gameplay), but really there isn't even that great of an emotional disparity either imo. It's not like the foreign scene is littered with awesome personalities like Dimaga, Incontrol Stephano etc. Not to mention their are Koreans like Hyun and MC who consistently try to entertain with antics outside of their gameplay even barring the language barrier. Yeah Naniwa winning would've been cool, but if you open your eyes there were 3 other good, possibly even better, stories to be had in the semis alone. Naniwa winning continues the classic underdog foreigner vs Korean story. Not much would've changed if he won. I already considered Naniwa a top 3 foreigner and he would've remained as such. We already knew he was one of the most reliable in competing with Koreans. Would that suddenly shoot him into the upper echelon of protoss players? Would Koreans still not grossly outclass the average foreigner come tomorrow? Meanwhile, Curious is fighting to finally claim a big win internationally and had looked damn good this tournament after being so mediocre in HotS for several months. Hyun is on the edge of qualifying for Blizzcon mainly off of these international events. Life, one of the best sc2 players ever in his prime and royal roader, is fighting back into relevancy with his first big win in some time. Oh, and he's still only 16. Aren't those interesting as well?
I know this is a manpower thing, but I really wish tournaments had pre-recorded videos and interviews so they could convey these storylines by showing instead of just telling us (if they do tell us).
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I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance.
I like to think the collection of die hards that watched GSL for years is just as important of a fan base as the mobs that only watch international events.
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On October 14 2013 12:25 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance. I like to think the collection of die hards that watched GSL for years is just as important of a fan base as the mobs that only watch international events.
They're definitely important, but how big is that group of people these days? Are those same fans still watching sc2? I know a lot of people who stopped watching GSL after it became WCS and all the popular players left for NA/EU. It's still an important group of people especially since they're more likely to be the passionate fans willing to spend money.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 14 2013 12:27 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 12:25 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance. I like to think the collection of die hards that watched GSL for years is just as important of a fan base as the mobs that only watch international events. They're definitely important, but how big is that group of people these days? Are those same fans still watching sc2? I know a lot of people who stopped watching GSL after it became WCS and all the popular players left for NA/EU. It's still an important group of people especially since they're more likely to be the passionate fans willing to spend money.
I guess it is a shrinking group, but the only group that understands players like Curious, etc. who can't make it to tons of foreign events. Kind of a shame.
But as long as there are people who remember the storylines of lesser known players they can share them.
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I am so happy I got a picture with Startale Life!! Take a look!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/adCsX2E.jpg)
I loved the players area and it made for a really great event!
+ Show Spoiler +just kidding, I know that is Curious. Here is the real photos! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/poqka6x.jpg)
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On October 14 2013 12:07 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 12:06 Doodsmack wrote:
Pretty hard to argue for anyone other than Naniwa being best foreigner in the world. Scarlett wasn't at this tournament, Scarlett took top 4 in WCS AM which is harder than WCS EU. Naniwa never made RO4 in WCS EU. There I just did. Not that I actually think Scarlett is better than Naniwa in any way worth mentioning, but It's not clear cut at all.
You're right Scarlett is a competitor, but those two are for sure at the top.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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On October 14 2013 12:27 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 12:25 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance. I like to think the collection of die hards that watched GSL for years is just as important of a fan base as the mobs that only watch international events. They're definitely important, but how big is that group of people these days? Are those same fans still watching sc2? I know a lot of people who stopped watching GSL after it became WCS and all the popular players left for NA/EU. It's still an important group of people especially since they're more likely to be the passionate fans willing to spend money.
That was the main reason why I stopped watching the last bit of Sc2 I still cared about at that time - the GSL. I've followed Sc2 since Feb 2011 and the Korean scene since July/August 2011 and even though the time difference made it incredibly difficult for me to watch the league, I've always tried to watch as much as I could at that time and enjoyed every single moment of it until WCS was announced. This, combined with a general lack of interest in videogames, stopped me from watching almost any Sc2 at all ever since (I've probably watched less than 3h this year). I still check the news, previews and results of big tournaments on TL almost daily. Sometimes I even read LR or other community threads, but this has become really rare because it seems about 90% of all posts are written by whiny 13year olds that simply like to complain for the sake of complaining while they could just fucking watch their supposedly favourite game instead. All you read is "sc2 dead", "koreans boring", "fuck player xy" or balance whine. It's extremely tiring and obnoxious tbh and I'm quite surprised there are still that many people that want to be part of such a bitchy and negative community. Considering this, over 70k viewers is actually quite an impessive feat.
I wish more people would realize Sc2 is doing just fine and enjoy the extremely high level of play displayed nowadays. It really isn't that hard.
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On October 14 2013 13:42 ES.Genie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 12:27 Dodgin wrote:On October 14 2013 12:25 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance. I like to think the collection of die hards that watched GSL for years is just as important of a fan base as the mobs that only watch international events. They're definitely important, but how big is that group of people these days? Are those same fans still watching sc2? I know a lot of people who stopped watching GSL after it became WCS and all the popular players left for NA/EU. It's still an important group of people especially since they're more likely to be the passionate fans willing to spend money. That was the main reason why I stopped watching the last bit of Sc2 I still cared about at that time - the GSL. I've followed Sc2 since Feb 2011 and the Korean scene since July/August 2011 and even though the time difference made it incredibly difficult for me to watch the league, I've always tried to watch as much as I could at that time and enjoyed every single moment of it until WCS was announced. This, combined with a general lack of interest in videogames, stopped me from watching almost any Sc2 at all ever since (I've probably watched less than 3h this year). I still check the news, previews and results of big tournaments on TL almost daily. Sometimes I even read LR or other community threads, but this has become really rare because it seems about 90% of all posts are written by whiny 13year olds that simply like to complain for the sake of complaining while they could just fucking watch their supposedly favourite game instead. All you read is "sc2 dead", "koreans boring", "fuck player xy" or balance whine. It's extremely tiring and obnoxious tbh and I'm quite surprised there are still that many people that want to be part of such a bitchy and negative community. Considering this, over 70k viewers is actually quite an impessive feat. I wish more people would realize Sc2 is doing just fine and enjoy the extremely high level of play displayed nowadays. It really isn't that hard.
If you haven't seen it yet, you should definitely watch the VODs for the WCS EU S1 finals between Stephano and Mvp. We finally got that dream match up in a bo7 finals and the games were pretty good, except for the last one.
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Wow Life won O.O so unexpected...GG!Life will find a way! ^^
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thebike
United States157 Posts
Kind of sad that Naniwa didn't win, but some great games in the finals! GG Life!
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Awesome tournament. There's so much bitching about how sc2 is dead and stuff, but I dunno, I enjoyed that tournament as much as any, the games were really exciting. I used to never care about games that didn't involve terran, as Zerg always bored me but ZvP is quickly becoming my favourite matchup right now. So many awesome ZvP's at this tournament with lots of action and variety of unit compositions etc.
Great effort from Nani, but Life deserved it and its good to see him back winning stuff. One of the few zergs i always enjoyed to watch!
I hope Nani gets to Blizzcon!
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Holy shit, just watched those games. Life is just insane with zerglings. Definitely reminded me of those games against Flash for...first HotS GSL? Where he dodged a million widow mine shots. Anyway, those were great games.
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 14 2013 14:10 Lobotomist wrote:
Holy shit, just watched those games. Life is just insane with zerglings. Definitely reminded me of those games against Flash for...first HotS GSL? Where he dodged a million widow mine shots. Anyway, those were great games.
You're thinking of the first hots MLG
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On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance.
Pretty much all the foreign players with personality have either quit the game or aren't very good anymore.
WCS EU is absolutely full of charismaless, faceless Europeans with no more personality than any 'random Korean'.
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On October 14 2013 12:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 11:30 danteafk wrote:
So glad that Naniwa made it this far.
Foreigners are currently the only excitement in stacked Korean tournaments.
Blizzcon will be pretty sad without foreigners, since a full Korean tourney is just boring. No storyline, no excitements, no emotions. I can't even understand this anymore, less you don't even bother with investing in the Korean scene. Not only do I see the Korean side of things containing far more and better stories, not only do I see them bringing more excitement (via gameplay), but really there isn't even that great of an emotional disparity either imo. It's not like the foreign scene is littered with awesome personalities like Dimaga, Incontrol Stephano etc. Not to mention their are Koreans like Hyun and MC who consistently try to entertain with antics outside of their gameplay even barring the language barrier. Yeah Naniwa winning would've been cool, but if you open your eyes there were 3 other good, possibly even better, stories to be had in the semis alone. Naniwa winning continues the classic underdog foreigner vs Korean story. Not much would've changed if he won. I already considered Naniwa a top 3 foreigner and he would've remained as such. We already knew he was one of the most reliable in competing with Koreans. Would that suddenly shoot him into the upper echelon of protoss players? Would Koreans still not grossly outclass the average foreigner come tomorrow? Meanwhile, Curious is fighting to finally claim a big win internationally and had looked damn good this tournament after being so mediocre in HotS for several months. Hyun is on the edge of qualifying for Blizzcon mainly off of these international events. Life, one of the best sc2 players ever in his prime and royal roader, is fighting back into relevancy with his first big win in some time. Oh, and he's still only 16. Aren't those interesting as well?
I don't understand it either... the korean scene is what I personally find the more entertaining.
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On October 14 2013 15:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance. Pretty much all the foreign players with personality have either quit the game or aren't very good anymore. WCS EU is absolutely full of charismaless, faceless Europeans with no more personality than any 'random Korean'.
I agree with you, It's really not even about " personality " anymore, people just want to see a western player do well.
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On October 14 2013 15:13 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 15:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On October 14 2013 12:21 Dodgin wrote:
I mean FrostedMiniWheats is right about there being lots of interesting story lines for Korean players, the problem is that unless you've been a hardcore fan who has watched GSL for the past 3 years you won't know or care about them. The foreign organizations either don't know them or don't want to tell them. It's hard to build a fan base as a average(like code s ro32-16 consistently) player because you only get to go to 1 or 2 foreign events a year. Most of the people watching the tournament have no idea who this guy is so they don't pay any attention to him. Life became " known " because of his two MLG wins more than his GSL wins for the average fan.
Your best bet is to do something like Stardust and come out of nowhere to win a prestigious event, otherwise even if you finish top 4 like Curious did very few people will remember you for that one performance. Pretty much all the foreign players with personality have either quit the game or aren't very good anymore. WCS EU is absolutely full of charismaless, faceless Europeans with no more personality than any 'random Korean'. I agree with you, It's really not even about " personality " anymore, people just want to see a western player do well.
And I get that, but it's amazing to me that there's people watching Sc2 who don't like Koreans. They win absolutely everything and always will. How can people be so masochistic as to hate that but still watch? It's like following men's athletics if you hate seeing black people win.
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EPT
