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MOD NOTE: The bracket on Liquipedia is not final and should be assumed to be speculative. If you are a competitor, trust what MLG Admins tell you over the bracket. |
On April 21 2013 17:36 mikkmagro wrote:
And people whined that ESL was messing it up, yet they did an amazing job compared to MLG. Dat bracket.
They stopped several Chinese players from competing.
They allowed cheaters to participate.
They allowed HyuN, who is playing in Code S Korea, to participate. (Though Quantic's management should've told him that he couldn't)
Furthermore, the skill difference between some of the invitees, and the people trying to qualify is ridiculous. If there is one thing that ESL did right, was that their invites were spot on. There was very little place for arguments as to who should be there, and who shouldn't. On the other hand, the qualifiers in NA are more stacked than the Premier Division itself lol.
Blizzard's intention to 'help the scene develop' by allowing Koreans to participate in NA from Korea is ridiculous. Koreans have great infrastructure. NA (and EU) players have zilch. Hell, there's only a handful of North American players you can truly call professionals. Just by 'aspiring to do better', you won't be able to beat the Koreans who practice all day long in team houses with great players and coaches.
Cut the prizepool by 75%, and impose a residency requirement, and NA players will be overjoyed, and it will help develop the scene much more. give some of the rest for another China/SEA league, and you have a great tournament structure.
At least one huge omission in EU with Lowely not getting an invite meanwhile people like TLO with almost no results did.
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On April 21 2013 22:16 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 17:36 mikkmagro wrote:
And people whined that ESL was messing it up, yet they did an amazing job compared to MLG. Dat bracket.
They stopped several Chinese players from competing.
They allowed cheaters to participate.
They allowed HyuN, who is playing in Code S Korea, to participate. (Though Quantic's management should've told him that he couldn't)
Furthermore, the skill difference between some of the invitees, and the people trying to qualify is ridiculous. If there is one thing that ESL did right, was that their invites were spot on. There was very little place for arguments as to who should be there, and who shouldn't. On the other hand, the qualifiers in NA are more stacked than the Premier Division itself lol.
Blizzard's intention to 'help the scene develop' by allowing Koreans to participate in NA from Korea is ridiculous. Koreans have great infrastructure. NA (and EU) players have zilch. Hell, there's only a handful of North American players you can truly call professionals. Just by 'aspiring to do better', you won't be able to beat the Koreans who practice all day long in team houses with great players and coaches.
Cut the prizepool by 75%, and impose a residency requirement, and NA players will be overjoyed, and it will help develop the scene much more. give some of the rest for another China/SEA league, and you have a great tournament structure. At least one huge omission in EU with Lowely not getting an invite meanwhile people like TLO with almost no results did.
getting 3 times top 8 in major EU tournaments = no results. It's hard to believe how many stupid haters sc2 scene has...
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On April 21 2013 18:04 4ZakeN87 wrote:
So.. only Koreans will qualify.. most probably.
That means that NA WCS just turned into some weak version of Code S for Koreans that don't want to commit against the top players of the world and prefer easy money... Well that sounds reeeeally exciting..
Why should I watch this now again? x)
Not to mention that this is only season 1, it is only going to get more swarmed with "not quite code S Koreans"
Hopefully in another two years we will refer to top players as WCS Global Finals Koreans.
Over time, as better players qualify and replace the weaker players in the NA and EU premier leagues, they should catch up to KR.
This doesn't help NA and EU players though, except maybe for a few first-season invitees who hopefully decide to get the best practice regimen they can, in order to keep their spot.
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On April 21 2013 22:56 Bocian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 22:16 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On April 21 2013 17:36 mikkmagro wrote:
And people whined that ESL was messing it up, yet they did an amazing job compared to MLG. Dat bracket.
They stopped several Chinese players from competing.
They allowed cheaters to participate.
They allowed HyuN, who is playing in Code S Korea, to participate. (Though Quantic's management should've told him that he couldn't)
Furthermore, the skill difference between some of the invitees, and the people trying to qualify is ridiculous. If there is one thing that ESL did right, was that their invites were spot on. There was very little place for arguments as to who should be there, and who shouldn't. On the other hand, the qualifiers in NA are more stacked than the Premier Division itself lol.
Blizzard's intention to 'help the scene develop' by allowing Koreans to participate in NA from Korea is ridiculous. Koreans have great infrastructure. NA (and EU) players have zilch. Hell, there's only a handful of North American players you can truly call professionals. Just by 'aspiring to do better', you won't be able to beat the Koreans who practice all day long in team houses with great players and coaches.
Cut the prizepool by 75%, and impose a residency requirement, and NA players will be overjoyed, and it will help develop the scene much more. give some of the rest for another China/SEA league, and you have a great tournament structure. At least one huge omission in EU with Lowely not getting an invite meanwhile people like TLO with almost no results did. getting 3 times top 8 in major EU tournaments = no results. It's hard to believe how many stupid haters sc2 scene has...
Top 8? Right.....
Lowely's results were superior. He is not on Team Liquid though with a popular stream. How on Earth am I a hater? I really like TLO but there's no way to argue the point that TLO deserved the invite ahead of Lowely.
In general though the EU invites were good and much better than the American ones.
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On April 21 2013 21:50 pepe08 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 18:04 4ZakeN87 wrote:
So.. only Koreans will qualify.. most probably.
That means that NA WCS just turned into some weak version of Code S for Koreans that don't want to commit against the top players of the world and prefer easy money... Well that sounds reeeeally exciting..
Why should I watch this now again? x)
Not to mention that this is only season 1, it is only going to get more swarmed with "not quite code S Koreans" only question i have for you is: this will start somewhere around midnight during weekdays for EU. even if no korean would get in, do you think many people from EU will watch it?
No probably not to many. Depend on the time though, people could still watch VOD:s. I would, might still do if I am proven wrong, which I hope I am.
Just bothers me that it could have been much better, it had a possibility to be something unique. Now it looks like it will turn into a weak version of code-s. I hope it does not but if there are 50% Koreans in the first season already... it is not going to get any less you know.
Know here is a question that I want all the "skill above all" people should ask themself. Say that we have 70% sub code-s Koreans in next season, what are the reasons to watch WCS NA compared to watching GSL? I mean it will be exactly the same format, same everything just with a weaker player base with less interesting storylines.
"Oh here is a new WCS NA Korean. Looks like another one that gotten tired of competing against the KESPA players and that decided to fly over to NA to grab some easy cash" Wow how intriguing, I can barely contain my excitement x)
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On April 21 2013 23:04 Giriath wrote:
Over time, as better players qualify and replace the weaker players in the NA and EU premier leagues, they should catch up to KR. Yep. And then we'll have 3 leagues that are equally worth watching, which will be awesome. Personally, I think all 3 are already worth watching, though I understand people who are disappointed with the makeup of NA.
This doesn't help NA and EU players though, except maybe for a few first-season invitees who hopefully decide to get the best practice regimen they can, in order to keep their spot.
But it does help them! The problem before was that you could have a great practice regimen, but there weren't enough world-class players in your timezone / low-ping region to have sufficient competition to build skill, nor was there enough prize money / high-profile tournaments in order to make a living without moving to Korea, which is an enormous (and artificial) barrier for most people.
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Well.. atleast Europe holded  . The NA Premier Division will be 12 to 14 no NA Players in the round of 16. There is even a big chance that no NA Player will be in the RO16. Check: Groups: A: Hero + Q / B: Violet + Q / C: Polt + Q / D: Ryung + Q /
E: Nestea + Q / F: Snute + Q / G: Sen + Q / H: Moonglade + Q
That would then be 5Koreans 1European 1Taiwan 1Australia + Q's. With the highest chance of Scarlett (Canada) group B to make it out.
LB1 NA hopes: qxc : he has to go throu most likely 3 Koreans and Demuslim (Europe) to qualify = unlikely
LB2 NA hopes: Nony/Badcop: Waekest LB but still Motok Miya and HwangSin and the Chinese Fruitbasket = guess no
LB3 NA hopes: Incontrol: Apocalypse, Heart , Top = not gonna happen
LB4 NA hopes: ???: Sage, JYP, Alive = don't think so
Solution: More practice! Raise children with female gamers for 3 or 4 generations. Then compete again  ....
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Europe "held" with like 1/4 the Koreans trying to qualify, and those Koreans being 2-3 tiers below the quality of guys in NA.
EU is better than NA, but it's by degrees. KR is better than both by whole levels.
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On April 21 2013 22:56 Bocian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 22:16 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On April 21 2013 17:36 mikkmagro wrote:
And people whined that ESL was messing it up, yet they did an amazing job compared to MLG. Dat bracket.
They stopped several Chinese players from competing.
They allowed cheaters to participate.
They allowed HyuN, who is playing in Code S Korea, to participate. (Though Quantic's management should've told him that he couldn't)
Furthermore, the skill difference between some of the invitees, and the people trying to qualify is ridiculous. If there is one thing that ESL did right, was that their invites were spot on. There was very little place for arguments as to who should be there, and who shouldn't. On the other hand, the qualifiers in NA are more stacked than the Premier Division itself lol.
Blizzard's intention to 'help the scene develop' by allowing Koreans to participate in NA from Korea is ridiculous. Koreans have great infrastructure. NA (and EU) players have zilch. Hell, there's only a handful of North American players you can truly call professionals. Just by 'aspiring to do better', you won't be able to beat the Koreans who practice all day long in team houses with great players and coaches.
Cut the prizepool by 75%, and impose a residency requirement, and NA players will be overjoyed, and it will help develop the scene much more. give some of the rest for another China/SEA league, and you have a great tournament structure. At least one huge omission in EU with Lowely not getting an invite meanwhile people like TLO with almost no results did. getting 3 times top 8 in major EU tournaments = no results. It's hard to believe how many stupid haters sc2 scene has...
Lowely got 4th at WCS EU last year and didn't get an invite this year. How does that make sense?
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Lowely got 4th at WCS EU last year and didn't get an invite this year. How does that make sense?
One could argue that TLO's HotS results have been better than Lowelys (who was a bitter disappointment in the qualifiers, btw).
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On April 21 2013 23:40 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Europe "held" with like 1/4 the Koreans trying to qualify, and those Koreans being 2-3 tiers below the quality of guys in NA.
EU is better than NA, but it's by degrees. KR is better than both by whole levels.
Should have an EU / NA battle sometime. That would be interesting ^
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On April 21 2013 23:55 4ZakeN87 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 23:40 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Europe "held" with like 1/4 the Koreans trying to qualify, and those Koreans being 2-3 tiers below the quality of guys in NA.
EU is better than NA, but it's by degrees. KR is better than both by whole levels. Should have an EU / NA battle sometime. That would be interesting ^
No, it wouldn't be interesting -.- .
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On April 21 2013 23:40 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Europe "held" with like 1/4 the Koreans trying to qualify, and those Koreans being 2-3 tiers below the quality of guys in NA.
EU is better than NA, but it's by degrees. KR is better than both by whole levels.
Yeah you're right. Finale and Tails are definitly 3 if not 6 tiers below the likes of Crank or Center.
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EU is going to get shitstomped by the Koreans at the regional finals just as badly as the NA players will. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. The fact that EU "held" is due to the fact that there were 4 koreans, not 20 and that they were significantly worse than most of the koreans that played the NA qualifier, and that's not even factoring in the fact that KR->NA latency is much better than KR->EU.
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EU wont get "shitstomped" as hard as NA. And EU would "Shitstomp" NA. Even on NA Ladder EU is #1 and #2. 
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On April 22 2013 00:12 Boanerges wrote:EU wont get "shitstomped" as hard as NA. And EU would "Shitstomp" NA. Even on NA Ladder EU is #1.
Sure, they will lose 2-0 in slightly longer games than their NA counterparts. Fortress Europe!!
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Yeah right oO! Tails Finale etc. were such walkovers right... well well.. what would one expect with that kind of education program...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 22 2013 00:14 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:12 Boanerges wrote:EU wont get "shitstomped" as hard as NA. And EU would "Shitstomp" NA. Even on NA Ladder EU is #1. Sure, they will lose 2-0 in slightly longer games than their NA counterparts. Fortress Europe!!
If u type less u here u can practise more...
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On April 22 2013 00:00 o)_Saurus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 23:40 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Europe "held" with like 1/4 the Koreans trying to qualify, and those Koreans being 2-3 tiers below the quality of guys in NA.
EU is better than NA, but it's by degrees. KR is better than both by whole levels. Yeah you're right. Finale and Tails are definitly 3 if not 6 tiers below the likes of Crank or Center.
I would argue that JD, Alive, Oz, and even theSTC are at least one tier above Finale and Tails. Probably higher.
We'll have to wait and see what happens in the actual tournaments, but I don't think anyone will be surprised if Koreans take the First, Second, Third and maybe even Fourth spot in the EU WCS.
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Well its ok if they take the first 4 spots, i doubt it. Still better than get kind of the whole first 16 :D..
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EPT
