EPT[WCS AM] Premier Qualifiers Season 1 - Page 131
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MOD NOTE: The bracket on Liquipedia is not final and should be assumed to be speculative. If you are a competitor, trust what MLG Admins tell you over the bracket. | ||
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Specialist
United States803 Posts
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BathTubNZ
New Zealand2556 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:40 SpecialistSc wrote: So how do we know that actual players played, for instance squirtle could play for crank etc and there is no stream cheating What would that achieve? And the stream was on a time delay. | ||
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Charlie.Sheen
662 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:43 BathTubNZ wrote: What would that achieve? And the stream was on a time delay. So the only thing that stops players from cheating is self-esteem? | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:50 Charlie.Sheen wrote: So the only thing that stops players from cheating is self-esteem? No, if they are caught their career is ruined. They risk losing everything: Their team would likely drop them, meaning no more housing and board, no more salary, no more support. Their reputation is tarnished, so that they will likely never join a reputable team again. Also, the games that they play will likely be reviewed if there is anything suspicious, so getting caught is very likely. Of course, theoretically there is always the possibility, but we'll have to trust the progamers unless there is reasonable suspicion otherwise. | ||
Gatesleeper
Canada300 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:32 Hrrrrm wrote: There are plenty NA players already seeded who wouldn't of been able to qualify even if there were 50% less Koreans. NA is weak as hell and that's why you see so many Koreans. Gotta take advantage while you can. Don't blame em. Blizzard tried to have it both ways by inviting some weak American (North and South) players while also allowing Koreans living in Koreans to compete. This way, nobody is happy and everybody loses something. North/South American players suffer because other than the 15 or so American players who were invited, no one else will be able to play in the Premier league. The 8 qualifier spots will all go to Koreans, this is nearly guaranteed, and anyone who thought before today's events that this was not the case was delusional. Of the 15 Americans (again, North and South), it is again nearly guaranteed that they will bomb out of the tournament, most of them last in their groups. The only American player that has a strong chance of progressing past the ro16 is Scarlett. The rest will collect their one time $1500 cheque, and then proceed to wallow in the Challenger Division. Meanwhile, decent American players like Xenocider, qxc, Fitzyhere, trimaster, Sasquatch, and hendralisk amongst others, who probably would've been Premier Division players if WCS NA was region locked, will now never make it to that Division, and can look forward to their quarterly $100-$300 cheques for playing in the Challenger Division. Korean players also suffer from Blizzard's wishy-washiness because with so many invited players and only 8 qualification spots, many top, Code A/S level Koreans will not be able to compete in the Premier Division. Currently there are 4 seeds left, with players like Zenio, Jaedong, Revival, Heart, Miya, Sage, JYP, and Alive still in the race. You look at these players and how many of them will not qualify, then look at some of the invites the Premier Division (Capoch, Maker, Fenix, hellokitty, State, Minigun) and you have to wonder exactly what Blizzard wants WCS NA to be. I think everyone would be a lot happier, or at least a lot less confused, if Blizzard told everyone straight up what they envision WCS NA to be, and then worked towards that goal. Is it supposed to be a place where we get top players (i.e. mostly Korean) competing in some sort of NA version of Code S? If so, don't invite all these middling American players, and let the best players qualify. We would end up with a WCS NA with 3/4 Koreans, but if we want the best, that's what it's gonna be. Or, is it supposed to be a tournament that fosters the NA scene, exposing and growing talent in North American players. If so, enforce a residency requirement (or make the tournaments offline, which is kind of a soft residency requirement), and then we can have a tournament with mostly North Americans. Sure, there will be a few "mercenary" Koreans like violet and Polt who win it, but the mere fact that they would be living in North America helps the scene a lot, because they would be living in North American team houses, practicing with other North American players and on the NA ladder. Having Koreans living in Korea playing the WCS NA tournament online does nothing to help the NA scene. | ||
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Charlie.Sheen
662 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:56 Bagration wrote: No, if they are caught their career is ruined. They risk losing everything: Their team would likely drop them, meaning no more housing and board, no more salary, no more support. Their reputation is tarnished, so that they will likely never join a reputable team again. Also, the games that they play will likely be reviewed if there is anything suspicious, so getting caught is very likely. Of course, theoretically there is always the possibility, but we'll have to trust the progamers unless there is reasonable suspicion otherwise. If they don't have a career in esports scene to begin with, they don't have a team, nobody pays them, never won anything, like some of those round 2 or 3 players, so there is no risk for them, but a lot to gain. They can be good at PvP, PvT matchups and bad at PvZ, so they can easily ask their diehard friends to play PvZ for them. If they reach deeper, like in Round 5, just play themself from that point on. With this kind of strategy, they can possibly beat some notable players in the scene in the early rounds. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On April 21 2013 14:02 Charlie.Sheen wrote: If they don't have a career in esports scene to begin with, they don't have a team, nobody pays them, never won anything, like some of those round 2 or 3 players, so there is no risk for them, but a lot to gain. They can be good at PvP, PvT matchups and bad at PvZ, so they can easily ask their diehard friends to play PvZ for them. If they reach deeper, like in Round 5, just play themself from that point on. With this kind of strategy, they can possibly beat some notable players in the scene in the early rounds. It's possible. Certainly possible. But even that is not foolproof, as replay analysis can hint at different players through hotkeys, etc. In the end, I don't disagree with you at all, and I agree that the risk and possibility are there. But sadly it may be something that we cannot easily eliminate. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
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Ace Frehley
2030 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:50 Charlie.Sheen wrote: So the only thing that stops players from cheating is self-esteem? If you start to worry about that, every single on-line tournament played until today can be put under suspicion that player X invited his friend Y (Y>X) to play on his account | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On April 21 2013 13:40 SpecialistSc wrote: So how do we know that actual players played, for instance squirtle could play for crank etc and there is no stream cheating Can we ban for stupid accusations like this? | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On April 21 2013 15:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: Can we ban for stupid accusations like this? Well apparently that fruitbasket guy is actually doing what that guy is talking about. It sucks when he accuses your player but it's a valid concern. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On April 21 2013 16:02 Enchanted wrote: Well apparently that fruitbasket guy is actually doing what that guy is talking about. It sucks when he accuses your player but it's a valid concern. Source? | ||
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pmp10
3367 Posts
It was posted in the Chinese left out topic. Supposedly amateur player gave his account to a pro after wining first round. If true it should be easy to see in replays but IMO MLG brought it upon themselves due to random player dropping. | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On April 21 2013 15:35 xiaomajia wrote: At the beginning of the tournament, a Chinese amateur "FruitBasket" get into the bracket, played first round himself and 2:1 win,then he posted the result on Chinese forum(http://bbs.neotv.cn/thread-1114030-1-2.html). But after that, because many Chinese progamer have not get into the bracket(check this post:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408776), "FruitBasket" gave his account to a Chinese progamer, let him have a chance to play in this tournament. tl;dr: the FruitBasket who is playing in the tournament now is not the same person who checked in at the beginning of the tournament. MLG can make a comparison between the first round's replay and the latest replays, then they will know the answer. It might be bullshit so excuse me if I'm gullible. I can't read Chinese tt | ||
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jalen
Australia222 Posts
On April 21 2013 16:12 Enchanted wrote: It might be bullshit so excuse me if I'm gullible. I can't read Chinese tt this man is trolling around because he got banned in Chinese forum, He is so happy when he know lots of Chinese pros are left out WCS NA, he don't like China even he is Chinese, maybe for some political reason. | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On April 21 2013 16:20 jalen wrote: this man is trolling around because he got banned in Chinese forum, He is so happy when he know lots of Chinese pros are left out WCS NA, he don't like China even he is Chinese, maybe for some political reason. Hmm, that's odd. Hopefully MLG takes a look at the replays anyway just in case. | ||
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Jknighty
159 Posts
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
On April 21 2013 16:51 Jknighty wrote: lol Demuslim totally screwed by the bracket. Anyone know how his series went with Oz yesterday? He'll probably have to play 2 Korean Zergs to get through tomorrow. You can check the vods here. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn9kCgJGjpyKAeh1tLScctwj2demNkmS2 | ||
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On April 21 2013 15:12 TotalBiscuit wrote: Can we ban for stupid accusations like this? That's not an accusation. I certainly hope tl doens't go full north korea and ban people for asking questions. | ||
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mikkmagro
Malta1513 Posts
They stopped several Chinese players from competing. They allowed cheaters to participate. They allowed HyuN, who is playing in Code S Korea, to participate. (Though Quantic's management should've told him that he couldn't) Furthermore, the skill difference between some of the invitees, and the people trying to qualify is ridiculous. If there is one thing that ESL did right, was that their invites were spot on. There was very little place for arguments as to who should be there, and who shouldn't. On the other hand, the qualifiers in NA are more stacked than the Premier Division itself lol. Blizzard's intention to 'help the scene develop' by allowing Koreans to participate in NA from Korea is ridiculous. Koreans have great infrastructure. NA (and EU) players have zilch. Hell, there's only a handful of North American players you can truly call professionals. Just by 'aspiring to do better', you won't be able to beat the Koreans who practice all day long in team houses with great players and coaches. Cut the prizepool by 75%, and impose a residency requirement, and NA players will be overjoyed, and it will help develop the scene much more. give some of the rest for another China/SEA league, and you have a great tournament structure. | ||
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