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No balance whining, caster bashing, or player bashing in this thread. |
On February 02 2013 07:36 MooMu wrote: Stephano came real close.
He plays like he deserves to be in Code S, imo. If you actually watched the games with innovation you would have saw that it wasn't close at all.
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United States97274 Posts
On February 02 2013 07:28 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:27 travis wrote: ignore the troll lol even if its not a troll it deserves to be ignored If we're talking about your posts then I agree. If you're talking about me that is. You can go see the proof yourself. he's talking about the other guy
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On February 02 2013 07:38 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:36 MooMu wrote: Stephano came real close.
He plays like he deserves to be in Code S, imo. If you actually watched the games with innovation you would have saw that it wasn't close at all.
Stephano needs to be more flexible but his play is solid. And it was indeed close as all he had to do was win that last game and he makes it out. He pretty much crushed Inno in that penultimate game.
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Hmm, I can't watch the first VOD/game of Innovation vs Stephano on GOMTV.
It sounds like a great game too. Why GOM! Why !!!
(I can watch all the other first games fine.)
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On February 02 2013 07:27 travis wrote: ignore the troll lol even if its not a troll it deserves to be ignored
his name has SWAG in it, anything and everything he says is automatically invalidated
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On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote: Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins. I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.
Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.
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I knew stephano wouldn't go throw this group and I am glad that DRG and Bogus advanced.
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On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you
I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself.
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On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. If you want to measure their skill, I think you should watch the tournament that both of these guys care the most about. That is Proleague.
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So, Stephano did just a smidgen better than HuK... i hope to see em both back next season.
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On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself.
lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867
So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?
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On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim? You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?
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On February 01 2013 22:23 Morken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:05 mijellin wrote:On February 01 2013 22:01 Morken wrote: Hmm what kinda bothers me lately when watching Starcraft is that whenever someone uses a flank or a surround, he is considered a genius.
Why is it that after millenia of human warfare and now after years of pro-gaming in Starcraft, this still seems to be something extraordinary in this game? It's one of the simplest tactical moves (although a devastating one), and all historical battles basically revolved around avoiding to get flanked, yet flank yourself. This should also be standard in Starcraft, but all I see are people who clump up their units into a ball and walk straight onto an open field without any cover at all, just to get overwhelmed by a simple flank.
If this kind of army movement just hasn't caught on yet in Starcraft (since WoL is still somewhat young) I wouldn't care, but it highly annoys me that casters, analysts and all sorts of other people, who call themselves experts in strategy games, act like flanking a completely undefended army was a stroke of genius and something they have never seen before or never would have thought of themselves. Because it takes extra effort to pull off. Just like how good macro or creep spread is impressive in execution, not bc they thought to do it. That's exactly my point. I tried to cover it with: "If this kind of army movement just hasn't caught on yet in Starcraft (since WoL is still somewhat young) I wouldn't care[...]" It was poorly put, I apologize. What I meant, was the following: I know and of acknowledge that surrounding and flanking in Starcraft is difficult, because, like you said, it requires additional effort to execute. If it was the execution that was admired, I would be fine with it, but that is often not the case. Today's matches were probably not a good example, they just reminded me of this. But I recall a lot of games where a player (usually Stephano) won a battle decisively because of a flank or surround and the reaction of the casters was always the same: "Omg! How did he do that? How did he not die? How did he beat this many units with his army? ... and so forth. And this "how did he do that" never sounded like "how was he able to execute this move so quickly and flawlessly?", it always sounded like "how the hell did that work just now? really, I have no clue what just happened..." And THIS bothers me. I don't know if some of them just play dumb, to make the players look good, or if they really don't have the slightest clue if it comes to tactics.
They do mean "How was he able to execute this move so quickly and flawlessly?" You're just interpreting incorrectly.
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On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim? You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?
A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people. Hell, if anything online tournaments especially when they're not cross server do two things: They let you play without nerves and with comfort of your home set up. So, your excuses are really lame.
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On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim? You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump? A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people. And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.
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On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim? You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump? A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people. And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S  If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.
Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse? Right after that game in the same month DRG came off wins from MVP, Hero, and Leenock only losing to Parting 2-1, Life 3-2, and Nobelesse 2-1.
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can anyone told me what build did innovation use against stephano at game 3 of the second set ? It was some kind of 6 rax all in,not sure which version tho.
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On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim? You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump? A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people. And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S  If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs. Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse? Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read." I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.
About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?
Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.
I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378
"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."
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On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote: Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins. I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well. Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.
Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.
By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.
Stop doing this, please.
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On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:On February 02 2013 03:37 1raxexpand wrote: I think stephano did reasonably well today. No shame in losing to Bogus, a top 5 terran. Naniwa had much easier matches (he avoided mvp completely) in his GSL group. Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there. Flash wants a word with you I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself. lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim? You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump? A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people. And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S  If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs. Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse? Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read." I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general. About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost? Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time. I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."
If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm
Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.
That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.
Class is what's indicative of skill.
I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482¤tpage=5
Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.
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