• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:43
CEST 09:43
KST 16:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202542Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up5LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins EWC 2025 Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now" TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level? Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? [G] Progamer Settings Help, I can't log into staredit.net
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 614 users

[Code S] RO32 Group H 2013 GSL Season 1 - Page 186

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 184 185 186 187 188 Next
No balance whining, caster bashing, or player bashing in this thread.
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 01:43:25
February 02 2013 01:42 GMT
#3701
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
February 02 2013 01:43 GMT
#3702
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:
On February 02 2013 04:00 Big J wrote:
[quote]

Yeah. Bogus is probably the best Kespa Terran out there.

Flash wants a word with you


I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself.


lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867

So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?

You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
February 02 2013 01:43 GMT
#3703
Pretty much exactly as expected.
The universe created an audience for itself.
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 01:52:29
February 02 2013 01:47 GMT
#3704
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:28 TommyP wrote:
[quote]
Flash wants a word with you


I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself.


lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867

So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?

You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool. Ironically, the only Kespa map in GSL "Planet S" has 100% win percentage for the Kespa players vs ESF. So that alone lets you know that practicing for specific maps does "matter".
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
February 02 2013 01:52 GMT
#3705
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:53 Big J wrote:
[quote]

I don't believe Flash needs a word with me to analyze why he is still Code A, while Bogus is going deep into Code S for the second time now. I'm pretty sure he can figure it out himself.


lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867

So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?

You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool.

Let's do this in PMs instead lol, I enjoy the discussion, but I'd rather not get banned.
"Expert" mods4ever.com
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
February 02 2013 01:53 GMT
#3706
On February 02 2013 10:52 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]

lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867

So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?

You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool.

Let's do this in PMs instead lol, I enjoy the discussion, but I'd rather not get banned.


Well we aren't doing anything wrong. I'm just explaining to you and everyone else why we should use Class instead of a Code.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
February 02 2013 01:53 GMT
#3707
--- Nuked ---
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
February 02 2013 01:55 GMT
#3708
On February 02 2013 10:53 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]

lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867

So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?

You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool. Ironically, the only Kespa map in GSL "Planet S" has 100% win percentage for the Kespa players in the GSL. So that alone lets you know that practicing for specific maps "matter".

You are right, DRG is better then Flash because he is superior at every part of the game. Not because he is Code S and Flash is Code A.


Is that why DRG lost 3-1 to Flash? See dude, you're making no sense.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
February 02 2013 02:00 GMT
#3709
On February 02 2013 10:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:53 Emzeeshady wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
[quote]
You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool. Ironically, the only Kespa map in GSL "Planet S" has 100% win percentage for the Kespa players in the GSL. So that alone lets you know that practicing for specific maps "matter".

You are right, DRG is better then Flash because he is superior at every part of the game. Not because he is Code S and Flash is Code A.


Is that why DRG lost 3-1 to Flash? See dude, you're making no sense.

And Flash barely beat Naniwa. A foreigner.
"Expert" mods4ever.com
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 02:05:37
February 02 2013 02:02 GMT
#3710
On February 02 2013 11:00 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:53 Emzeeshady wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]

A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool. Ironically, the only Kespa map in GSL "Planet S" has 100% win percentage for the Kespa players in the GSL. So that alone lets you know that practicing for specific maps "matter".

You are right, DRG is better then Flash because he is superior at every part of the game. Not because he is Code S and Flash is Code A.


Is that why DRG lost 3-1 to Flash? See dude, you're making no sense.

And Flash barely beat Naniwa. A foreigner.


That doesn't take away the fact that he 3-1ed DRG. Flash also beat Life (who was coming off a GSL win) in the first set at MLG 2-0 before losing 0-4 after. How about comparing when Naniwa started to when Flash started? Naniwa has years of experience on Flash and shouldn't have lost any games.

You must not really understand situational playing. It's knowing how to react to a certain situation. I doubt Flash has played long enough to know how to respond to every situation with every build like Naniwa should especially since he's played 2 1/2 years longer. Knowing how to respond to every situation is a key element of SC all the way back from BW. If you get caught in a situation that you don't know how to respond too then you'll lose if your improvising isn't on par. Once Flash has a full understanding of the game I doubt Naniwa will be able to take any games off him. I'll put money on that.
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
February 02 2013 02:07 GMT
#3711
Too bad for Stephano. He couldn't handle that one dude.
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
February 02 2013 02:13 GMT
#3712
On February 02 2013 10:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.


"I seriously doubt that Flash would have ever won anything if Einstein, Schumacher and da Vinci would have been around to play Starcraft when Broodwar became big in Korea. But they didn't. Boxer, Savior and Flash won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is."
Lol... Sorry, dude, but you just sound like a butthurt Flash fan that can't get over the fact that we live in 2013.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
February 02 2013 02:14 GMT
#3713
--- Nuked ---
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
February 02 2013 02:14 GMT
#3714
--- Nuked ---
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 02:41:43
February 02 2013 02:34 GMT
#3715
On February 02 2013 11:14 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 11:13 Big J wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.


"I seriously doubt that Flash would have ever won anything if Einstein, Schumacher and da Vinci would have been around to play Starcraft when Broodwar became big in Korea. But they didn't. Boxer, Savior and Flash won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is."
Lol... Sorry, dude, but you just sound like a butthurt Flash fan that can't get over the fact that we live in 2013.

basically what he sounds like


How about you just lay off and out my arguments. You never bring anything to the table except the whole "what he said". Never any substance or facts.
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 02:40:29
February 02 2013 02:37 GMT
#3716
On February 02 2013 11:14 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:55 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:53 Emzeeshady wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]

A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool. Ironically, the only Kespa map in GSL "Planet S" has 100% win percentage for the Kespa players in the GSL. So that alone lets you know that practicing for specific maps "matter".

You are right, DRG is better then Flash because he is superior at every part of the game. Not because he is Code S and Flash is Code A.


Is that why DRG lost 3-1 to Flash? See dude, you're making no sense.

since when does one series against 1 person prove you are better then someone. That is just 1 matchup in 1 series against 1 player. Head to head doesn't prove who is better at all.


Do you read what you write before sending it out? You just said head to head doesn't prove who's better at all. When in actuality...It does lmao

Since people make statements like this:

On February 02 2013 10:53 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:47 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:43 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:37 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:28 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:19 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:11 Die4Ever wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]

lol I can't believe people really think that a certain "code" is indicative of their skill level, WRONG!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385867

So, I guess Flash 3-1 DongRaeGu in a GSL style format means that Flash is still Code A? Yet Bogus who's Code S couldn't beat him? In this tournament both players clearly knew who they were playing ahead of time and even better they had no crowd to give them nerves. So what excuses are you share with us that will defend your illogical claim?

You're using an online tournament as proof? From when DRG was in a slump?


A slump? From what I remember he was the runner up at the OSL prior to that game. There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read. So, it being an online tournament disqualifies flash for beating him? lol that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Also, do you know the prestige that Koreans get from beating Flash? I doubt DRG went "lightly" or was even in a "slump". Always excuses from you people.

And you're making excuses about Flash not being in Code S If he was so good he'd be able to get out of Code A especially since you get so many chances whether by winning your bracket or through the up and downs.


Excuses? lol what excuse did I make? Please quote it. I "clearly" said that being a certain "code" isn't indicative of skill because somebody who isn't even a "code" can beat somebody who's in "code S" in a "GSL style format" in which I provided proof that Flash did. You can quote that buddy! Now you're trying to throw extra things in there that I didn't say to further the argument and hoping that you can escape the hole you dropped into. "DRG was in a slump" lol from what I remember he was at the top of his game at the time. Now where's your excuse?

Ah let me clarify, when you said this "There's always some excuse from you guys! It's freaking irritating to read."
I was responding as kespa fans making excuses in general.

About Flash not being in Code S yet beating DRG in the MLG online match. You say that Flash is top tier because he beat DRG in that match, yet you say what Code he is in does not matter. But him being in a certain Code is a direct result of him winning/losing matches. Why should the MLG online match have more weight than the GSL matches where Flash lost?

Also yea DRG was in a slump at that time.

I quote from here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396378

"Many will be familiar with DongRaeGu's 'slump' that started after he won MLG Spring Championship last year. While he never fell out of Code S or could ever be called even an average player, he definitely dropped out of the top tier. Some will point out his OSL 2nd place run as a sign that he was still playing well, but there's another way to look at it. OSL was actually rock bottom for DRG, lower than his losses in the GSTL and GSL that prevented him from playing in his hometown of Busan. Rock bottom was going through a deceptively easy OSL bracket and making it to the final, only to be brutally destroyed by Rain in a series that vividly demonstrated he was no longer the player he was before."


If losing 3-2 to Life who was just coming off a GSL win means that you're "slumping" then I must have all of my facts screwed up. /sarcasm

Codes don't matter. It doesn't matter for ESF players and it doesn't matter for Kespa players because it isn't indicative of skill.

That link you put up there doesn't have anything to do with me.

Class is what's indicative of skill.

I explain what "class" means and how to sort it in the thread below.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396482&currentpage=5

Read the thread. A lot of people agree that "code" isn't indicative of skill because of all the missing factors involved. Also, since you keep saying that DRG was in a slump, I can then turn around and say that Flash wasn't even preparing for GSL and was more concerned about pro league as he mentioned in his interviews. Go read Bogus's interview today, even he said he hasn't really been practicing for GSL and that the different map pools conflict with the Pro League maps.

Yea right lol. Code doesn't matter, because winning and losing games doesn't matter.


Code doesn't matter because you don't even have to be a Code to beat somebody who's in Code S. Class is a better representation of skill. You can say that both Flash and DRG are A-teamers at this point which would make sense for them to take games off each other. But saying just because DRG is Code S and Flash is Code A that DRG is better than him because of an "arbitrary title" is ridiculous. There are many Code S players that lose to players without a Code which is why we can't determine skill based off one. Especially when Kespa players main priority is Pro League. Do you know how many maps they would have to practice on (with all 3 match ups) to play in both the GSL and Pro League?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Maps

That's a whole lot. Considering that the people in the GSL only have to focus on one map pool. Ironically, the only Kespa map in GSL "Planet S" has 100% win percentage for the Kespa players in the GSL. So that alone lets you know that practicing for specific maps "matter".

You are right, DRG is better then Flash because he is superior at every part of the game. Not because he is Code S and Flash is Code A.


BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
February 02 2013 02:41 GMT
#3717
On February 02 2013 11:13 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.


"I seriously doubt that Flash would have ever won anything if Einstein, Schumacher and da Vinci would have been around to play Starcraft when Broodwar became big in Korea. But they didn't. Boxer, Savior and Flash won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is."
Lol... Sorry, dude, but you just sound like a butthurt Flash fan that can't get over the fact that we live in 2013.


A butt hurt flash fan? lol I didn't even bring up Flash in the argument you quoted. His name isn't even mentioned in that entire paragraph. Also, I have no problem that we live in 2013. Also, I bring plenty of evidence with my arguments whereas you only have an opinion with no substance to back it up.
1raxexpand
Profile Joined July 2012
United States165 Posts
February 02 2013 02:42 GMT
#3718
On February 02 2013 10:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.



Many ppl have said it, that it takes a different sort of talent to win when the game is new. Mvp and Nestea are simply the smartest/ most innovative players of their race. What new build has Flash come up with?
Mvp-forGG-MKP-Bogus-Ty-MMA-Polt-Taeja-Flash
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 02:52:52
February 02 2013 02:50 GMT
#3719
On February 02 2013 11:42 1raxexpand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.



Many ppl have said it, that it takes a different sort of talent to win when the game is new. Mvp and Nestea are simply the smartest/ most innovative players of their race. What new build has Flash come up with?


In my opinion, if it took a sort of different talent to win when the game is new then how come the top 3 players of the time (MVP, Nestea, and MC) not to mention (FruitDealer first GSL winner and IntotheRainbow first GSL Runner up) all share a few common traits? They all came from Brood War, they all played in Kespa and they all had little success on BW. Which means they already had the understanding of making builds, macro, micro, multitasking, and decision making coming into the game. Whereas players from other games had to learn it from SC2 which gave the ex Kespa/BW players an edge over everybody else which allowed them to grab titles. I won't say that their not innovative because they are, but you're telling me that if the "better" kespa players had of transitioned at the same time that Nestea and MVP would have been at the top of their race? I can't agree with that. I don't know what new build Flash has come up with yet because I don't know what builds are being used on the Kor ladder to know if he created it or not. Time will tell though and he will have plenty of chances once HotS comes out just like Nestea and MVP had when WoL came out.
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
February 02 2013 02:53 GMT
#3720
On February 02 2013 11:42 1raxexpand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 10:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 10:36 ELA wrote:
On February 02 2013 09:39 1raxexpand wrote:
On February 02 2013 07:25 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On February 02 2013 06:56 2muchSWAG wrote:
Wow Stephano is so overrated. This is just proof that Idra(Ro8), Huk(Ro8), Naniwa(2x Ro8) and Jinro(2x Ro4) are better than him. I'd say that Stephano is the 5th maybe 6th maybe even 7th best foreigner right now. Not making it past the round of 32 when these other players who are called "fallen out" made it past Stephano. I'd say he is super overrated. One Ro8 in Code S equates to about 7 foreign major premier tournament wins.

I disagree. Idra, Jinro, and Huk (besides a bo1 against Fantasy) didn't have to play against a Kespa player. Stephano and Naniwa did and they were both eliminated by them as well.


Jinro got Ro4 when the competition is not as fierce. A Ro16 now for a foreiner is pronably more impressive. This has nothing to do with Kespa though.


Competition was just as fierce then as it is now, fucking 400 people showed up for the first qualifying rounds which Jinro and idrA battered their way through - The game is more refined now since people have had more time to practice, but competition was just as fierce as it is now.

By your shitty logic, I could be going on about how crap players Nestea and MVP are because they only won their GSLs because the game was still 'new' and Rain wasn't there to own them.

Stop doing this, please.


It wouldn't have to necessarily be "Rain". It's just ironic that the top 3 players around that time "Nestea", "MVP", and "MC", hell even Fruit Dealer and IntotheRainbow all had Kespa experience coming into the game which gave them an edge over their opponents when it comes to micro/macro/multitasking/decision making and preparation. I honestly don't think they would have won those GSL's if the "better" Kespa players had of switched over at the same time. But they didn't. MVP and Nestea won their championships and we have to accept it for what it is.



Many ppl have said it, that it takes a different sort of talent to win when the game is new. Mvp and Nestea are simply the smartest/ most innovative players of their race. What new build has Flash come up with?


14cc
STX Fighting!
Prev 1 184 185 186 187 188 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech41
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 1959
Pusan 326
Leta 231
Light 193
PianO 116
Killer 65
Noble 64
Backho 51
GoRush 47
HiyA 31
[ Show more ]
NaDa 27
Bale 12
Sharp 9
Dota 2
ODPixel125
XcaliburYe47
BananaSlamJamma15
League of Legends
JimRising 601
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K822
shoxiejesuss346
allub88
Super Smash Bros
Westballz28
Other Games
summit1g9010
Tasteless245
Pyrionflax78
SortOf73
NeuroSwarm57
PartinGtheBigBoy27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1132
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 64
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH390
• davetesta27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt465
• HappyZerGling188
Other Games
• Scarra846
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 17m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3h 17m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
7h 17m
PiGosaur Monday
16h 17m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 3h
Stormgate Nexus
1d 6h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 8h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
RotterdaM Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.