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On November 12 2012 15:15 vthree wrote:
Actually, some meta changes were brought on by maps in BW. That is why you see a lot of mirrors in PL, some maps just favor certain races. In SC2, terrain (and thus maps) doesn't make as much difference. Also, a lot of the maps we have now are pretty similiar (relatively easy thirds and a pretty accessible fourth). That is why zergs find Antiga so difficult, the 4th is either exposed (center) or really far to defend by ground (edge expos).
Having race favoured maps in sc2 seems to just create more problems then they solve. I remember calm before the storm was supposed to help struggling protoss in gsl but it just made terrans all-in them harder although the map did produce some really nice mech vs mech TvT games. Bel'shir I think was introduced to help zergs but it was problematic to pvp on etc etc.
I do wish we could have more maps with more interesting setups but everyone seems to think the current setup is the most fair.
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On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf.
You are just being difficult. People have been asking for a nerf for a while now, but as zerg players master infestor-broodlord engagements and through experience see just how much army they can cut while teching hard, people are being louder and louder about it.
Previously, terran COULD do damage in the very early game if a zerg was greedy. Now, its much easier to defend early aggression vs terran. Even Idra admits this.
You realize that many professional zerg players, including some of the best in the world, think the infestor is a problem. They just want viable options that don't rely on it, because without infestor zerg is much weaker. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
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On November 12 2012 15:37 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:35 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:29 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Metagame changes, other units changed affecting the matchup. It's not as simple as you think Metagame changes ----> Not infestor's fault. Just implies that people haven't re-figured out how to combat intelligently. Other units changed affecting the matchup -----> Please, continue. The metagame has evolved in such a way that infestors are being abused far more than ever before. Any possible imbalances caused by the infestor weren't readily apparent before. They are now.
So if we brought back Steppes of War and inferior Terran players win with 100% predictable SCV pulls, you'd respond with "people just have to figure it out" also?
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On November 12 2012 15:44 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:37 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:35 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:29 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Metagame changes, other units changed affecting the matchup. It's not as simple as you think Metagame changes ----> Not infestor's fault. Just implies that people haven't re-figured out how to combat intelligently. Other units changed affecting the matchup -----> Please, continue. The metagame has evolved in such a way that infestors are being abused far more than ever before. Any possible imbalances caused by the infestor weren't readily apparent before. They are now. So if we brought back Steppes of War and inferior Terran players win with 100% predictable SCV pulls you'd respond with "people just have to figure it out" also?
Are you responding to me? I don't think you understood my post. That isn't what I'm saying at all. I think infestor should be changed and don't think its just a metagame shift.
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On November 12 2012 15:46 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:44 ssxsilver wrote:On November 12 2012 15:37 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:35 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:29 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Metagame changes, other units changed affecting the matchup. It's not as simple as you think Metagame changes ----> Not infestor's fault. Just implies that people haven't re-figured out how to combat intelligently. Other units changed affecting the matchup -----> Please, continue. The metagame has evolved in such a way that infestors are being abused far more than ever before. Any possible imbalances caused by the infestor weren't readily apparent before. They are now. So if we brought back Steppes of War and inferior Terran players win with 100% predictable SCV pulls you'd respond with "people just have to figure it out" also? Are you responding to me? I don't think you understood my post. That isn't what I'm saying at all. I think infestor should be changed and don't think its just a metagame shift.
Whoops wrong quote =P. I was responding to the other guy.
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On November 12 2012 15:43 WhatsInAName wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:37 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:35 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:29 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Metagame changes, other units changed affecting the matchup. It's not as simple as you think Metagame changes ----> Not infestor's fault. Just implies that people haven't re-figured out how to combat intelligently. Other units changed affecting the matchup -----> Please, continue. The metagame has evolved in such a way that infestors are being abused far more than ever before. Any possible imbalances caused by the infestor weren't readily apparent before. They are now. Great. Please explain ------> how Stephano's apparent "infestor abuse" in this tournament is relevant to the discussion of the infestor being to strong. Because in my opinion, Stephano did not abuse the infestor. He barely made them in fact (less than usual). The final 2-3 fungals at the end of the last game (when stephano was already ahead after his surprise bl transition) were clearly taking advantage of the fact Bomber mis-used his inexorability high number of marines by clumping them. Could it be possible that the metagame just has to shift in favor of another race. Should metagame shifts be instigated by Blizzard or by innovative players?
I don't think Stephano won because of infestors, particularly in the last match. I don't know why you think I am. If we are just talking general balance though, yes.
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On November 12 2012 15:41 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. Complaining about Zerg has been going on constantly since the Queen patch, although the complaints have recently shifted from the queen range and overlord speed to the Infestor instead. Check out this thread from June, about one month after the patch dropped: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346544
Yes interesting. Well, then if you are correct, the problem cannot be solved by fixing infestors alone. The problem is MUCH bigger. Could it be that Blizzard overpowers one unit in an update then must compensate by nerfing another unit in the game? Thus shifting the total design and construct of the original intention of units. Perhaps it is right, zerg has been subtlely getting strong since the queen patch with other upgrades. Perhaps it is more effective to change the things that caused this imbalance rather than a random unit that hasn't been changed for over a year. I don't know.
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I haven't felt this good about the usa since the election
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On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf.
Because it took a while for the meta game to shift? And also some time for other races to see if they can re-adjust?
Yes, if you did the same build that zergs are doing now with prepatch queens, hellion runbys would deny creep (they just kite the queens). Which makes the 9 - 9:30 minute tank marine push much more powerful. Zergs had to make a lot of gas units (banes, muta, roach, etc) to defend. They also needed to make spines which slowed their eco. If they didn't, they just died so no infestors.
It is like asking why Mvp didn't use mass ghosts in GSL Jan 2011. The meta game just wasn't at the point. But when he did it at Blizzcon, GSL Aug, it was nerfed because it was deemed OP (and it was). The ghosts itself did not change. Maps also play a role. Maps which hard to defend thirds also make teching straight to infestors much harder. Player's skill level as well. One of the reasons muta/ling/bane is not as effective as say the Nestea era is that terrans have gotten much better at defend it with their marine micro.
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On November 12 2012 15:48 WhatsInAName wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:41 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. Complaining about Zerg has been going on constantly since the Queen patch, although the complaints have recently shifted from the queen range and overlord speed to the Infestor instead. Check out this thread from June, about one month after the patch dropped: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346544 Yes interesting. Well, then if you are correct, the problem cannot be solved by fixing infestors alone. The problem is MUCH bigger. Could it be that Blizzard overpowers one unit in an update then must compensate by nerfing another unit in the game? Thus shifting the total design and construct of the original intention of units. Perhaps it is right, zerg has been subtlely getting strong since the queen patch with other upgrades. Perhaps it is more effective to change the things that caused this imbalance rather than a random unit that hasn't been changed for over a year. I don't know.
Whatever happened, infestors are not well-designed, even if they didn't cause imbalance. They are much too useful in every matchup, and have way too much utility.
edit: I'll stop balance/design discussion in this thread because it doesn't really belong here.
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On November 12 2012 15:44 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. You are just being difficult. People have been asking for a nerf for a while now, but as zerg players master infestor-broodlord engagements and through experience see just how much army they can cut while teching hard, people are being louder and louder about it. Previously, terran COULD do damage in the very early game if a zerg was greedy. Now, its much easier to defend early aggression vs terran. Even Idra admits this. You realize that many professional zerg players, including some of the best in the world, think the infestor is a problem. They just want viable options that don't rely on it, because without infestor zerg is much weaker. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
Difficult ----> I don't think so.
I'm skeptical about players making calls on balance. It's a conflict of interest. As someone else said a few posts back, the issue is much larger and in fact may not involve infestors at all (or perhaps it has everything to do with infestors). Zerg's have been 15 hatching since day one. So maybe this is greedy, but I don't think so since zerg typically must have more bases than the other races from the get-go. I think Terrans have been more greedy as of late with usually 3 cc builds in seemingly the first few minutes of the game. Nevertheless, Zerg has it's bag of punishes as well.
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On November 12 2012 15:48 WhatsInAName wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:41 Dodgin wrote:On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. Complaining about Zerg has been going on constantly since the Queen patch, although the complaints have recently shifted from the queen range and overlord speed to the Infestor instead. Check out this thread from June, about one month after the patch dropped: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346544 Yes interesting. Well, then if you are correct, the problem cannot be solved by fixing infestors alone. The problem is MUCH bigger. Could it be that Blizzard overpowers one unit in an update then must compensate by nerfing another unit in the game? Thus shifting the total design and construct of the original intention of units. Perhaps it is right, zerg has been subtlely getting strong since the queen patch with other upgrades. Perhaps it is more effective to change the things that caused this imbalance rather than a random unit that hasn't been changed for over a year. I don't know.
Well, the Queen patch did stabilize the early mid game in TvZ. Zergs did died A LOT due to good early/mid game pushes from terran. Now that the early game has been 'fixed', we are starting to see some issues with infestors/BL in late game. Maybe the fix is with the infestor directly? or maybe buffing terran/protoss counters. But generally, it is easier to tweak one units compare to tweaking everything else around it.
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does anyone know what the number for the queen buff patch was?
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On November 12 2012 15:56 Gator wrote:
does anyone know what the number for the queen buff patch was?
Patch 1.4.3 BU
May 10th 2012
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my summary:
+ good players
+ good games
+ good casters!
+ introduction of the SHADOW BRACKET (I love these things!)
+ qxc yelling at the guy who is eating chicken wings for him
+ most koreans speaking english on stage interviews (it's just 100x better than translated standard PR blabla)
+ crowd
+ ... (your turn, I ran out of things :/ )
- technical issues (wtf guys)
- qxc not winning the whole thing 
- extended series (meh...)
- horrible use of downtime between games: mostly there were just splash screens with or without music, no info when the next games starts and so on...
- ... hm
tbc
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On November 12 2012 15:52 WhatsInAName wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:44 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. You are just being difficult. People have been asking for a nerf for a while now, but as zerg players master infestor-broodlord engagements and through experience see just how much army they can cut while teching hard, people are being louder and louder about it. Previously, terran COULD do damage in the very early game if a zerg was greedy. Now, its much easier to defend early aggression vs terran. Even Idra admits this. You realize that many professional zerg players, including some of the best in the world, think the infestor is a problem. They just want viable options that don't rely on it, because without infestor zerg is much weaker. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Difficult ----> I don't think so. I'm skeptical about players making calls on balance. It's a conflict of interest. As someone else said a few posts back, the issue is much larger and in fact may not involve infestors at all (or perhaps it has everything to do with infestors). Zerg's have been 15 hatching since day one. So maybe this is greedy, but I don't think so since zerg typically must have more bases than the other races from the get-go. I think Terrans have been more greedy as of late with usually 3 cc builds in seemingly the first few minutes of the game. Nevertheless, Zerg has it's bag of punishes as well.
And everyone has a conflict of interest. You can be a Stephano fan and feel zerg is fine. Or I can be a Bomber fan and think it is not. It is almost impossible to find a neutral person who is knowledgable enough to make balance calls. But even zergs pros have been saying there is a problem with BL/infestors. And I don't think they enjoy HAVING to go that composition to win.
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On November 12 2012 15:49 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. Because it took a while for the meta game to shift? And also some time for other races to see if they can re-adjust? Yes, if you did the same build that zergs are doing now with prepatch queens, hellion runbys would deny creep (they just kite the queens). Which makes the 9 - 9:30 minute tank marine push much more powerful. Zergs had to make a lot of gas units (banes, muta, roach, etc) to defend. They also needed to make spines which slowed their eco. If they didn't, they just died so no infestors. It is like asking why Mvp didn't use mass ghosts in GSL Jan 2011. The meta game just wasn't at the point. But when he did it at Blizzcon, GSL Aug, it was nerfed because it was deemed OP (and it was). The ghosts itself did not change. Maps also play a role. Maps which hard to defend thirds also make teching straight to infestors much harder. Player's skill level as well. One of the reasons muta/ling/bane is not as effective as say the Nestea era is that terrans have gotten much better at defend it with their marine micro.
Well I feel like you are making your own questions and answering them. Muta/Ling/Bane just had to get "figured out" then it wasn't as effective, or shall we say OP. How much time must pass before we can decide whether infestor usage and its counters have or haven't been "figured out?"
The Blizzcon game was a specific instance of a specific spell abuse in mass quantities. I still don't understand why the discussion is relevant here because an instance of this caliber did not occur in this series.
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On November 12 2012 15:59 schaf wrote:my summary: + good players + good games + good casters! + introduction of the SHADOW BRACKET (I love these things!) + qxc yelling at the guy who is eating chicken wings for him + most koreans speaking english on stage interviews (it's just 100x better than translated standard PR blabla) + crowd + ... (your turn, I ran out of things :/ ) - technical issues (wtf guys) - qxc not winning the whole thing - extended series (meh...) - horrible use of downtime between games: mostly there were just splash screens with or without music, no info when the next games starts and so on... - ... hm tbc
To be fair, the schedule was posted in the OP, and they followed it quite well in the series that I watched. It was one Bo3 every hour with each Bo3 usually starting exactly at their scheduled time, so I personally don't fault them for following this schedule even if it led to a bunch of downtime.
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btw, people have complained about how the infestor works since the very beginning. But it has been very low key as it didn't fill such a big role in the meta. It was just a very strong spellcaster. I like how Zerg has become the race with the most cost effective units and slow moving super late game army  .
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On November 12 2012 15:59 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 15:52 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:44 zefreak wrote:On November 12 2012 15:38 WhatsInAName wrote:On November 12 2012 15:34 vthree wrote:On November 12 2012 15:28 WhatsInAName wrote:
Hi. I don't play sc2 much any more, but I watch a lot. I enjoy fungal as a spell. Not sure why so many people are suddenly going berserk over it. Rather silly, honestly.
Did you know, that the infestor hasn't been changed since patch 1.4.0, which was in September of 2011. In fact, over a year ago. I'm wondering, in fact, why the community is such in a rage all of a sudden when, in fact, the infestor hasn't changed in a year. Hmm. Because it is 2-3x easier to go straight from ling to infestors now that you have the 4-6 queen builds and overlord speed? It is like if they buff mules to give 540 minerals over its life time. You will just see mass marine builds be OP eventhough the marine itself has not been change. Changes in the meta game can make certain units OP. Ghost snipe were also not nerfed until pretty late because that meta had not be uncovered. 2-3x easier ------------> hmmm. Rethink cause and effect. Are you implying that previously, terran had to do damange in the very early game to hault the ease of going to ling infestor? Also, the queen change was made very long time ago. Explain why just now, people are begging for a nerf. You are just being difficult. People have been asking for a nerf for a while now, but as zerg players master infestor-broodlord engagements and through experience see just how much army they can cut while teching hard, people are being louder and louder about it. Previously, terran COULD do damage in the very early game if a zerg was greedy. Now, its much easier to defend early aggression vs terran. Even Idra admits this. You realize that many professional zerg players, including some of the best in the world, think the infestor is a problem. They just want viable options that don't rely on it, because without infestor zerg is much weaker. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem. Difficult ----> I don't think so. I'm skeptical about players making calls on balance. It's a conflict of interest. As someone else said a few posts back, the issue is much larger and in fact may not involve infestors at all (or perhaps it has everything to do with infestors). Zerg's have been 15 hatching since day one. So maybe this is greedy, but I don't think so since zerg typically must have more bases than the other races from the get-go. I think Terrans have been more greedy as of late with usually 3 cc builds in seemingly the first few minutes of the game. Nevertheless, Zerg has it's bag of punishes as well. And everyone has a conflict of interest. You can be a Stephano fan and feel zerg is fine. Or I can be a Bomber fan and think it is not. It is almost impossible to find a neutral person who is knowledgable enough to make balance calls. But even zergs pros have been saying there is a problem with BL/infestors. And I don't think they enjoy HAVING to go that composition to win.
Hard to be a Stephano fan and feel zerg is fine when he says himself that he always thought Zerg was the strongest race and that it is waaay imbalanced
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