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Austria24420 Posts
On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ  The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT.
Protoss can't throw up a million cannons, sit back and make an unbeatable army that's literally unbeatable. If anything, terran can do that on certain maps (looking at you, metropolis).
You can dodge storms as terran, you can drop, you can kill colossi with vikings, ...
As protoss you can... hope he stacks his shit and get a wonder vortex.
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On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways.
Come on now, think plz. A game will look different if zerg is forced to mass units and max out on roaches compared to a game like this game 3 of symbol vs seed, where symbol could tech and expand like a mad man with out fear of anything. You can do economic damage without actually comitting to much.
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On September 21 2012 00:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. Protoss can't throw up a million cannons, sit back and make an unbeatable army that's literally unbeatable. If anything, terran can do that on certain maps (looking at you, metropolis). You can dodge storms as terran, you can drop, you can kill colossi with vikings, ... As protoss you can... hope he stacks his shit and get a wonder vortex.
Yeah cause Squirtle vs Mvp should how well that worked <3
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On September 21 2012 00:05 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:00 FakeDeath wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. Not Really. If protoss doesn't screw up(Watch By.Sun stomp Taeja and Polt using literally flawless defense and harassment and finally killing them),terran stand very little chance. Taeja and Polt are one of the best PvTers but they got stomped and outplayed by Sun. Sun is a bad argument for 2 reasons. The first reason is that there's the outside possibility that he's just flat out playing the best SC2 anyone ever has. The second reason is the more probably and that is that no one knows his style. This I think will be his true test in the coming weeks; how he handles having people analyse his play to date and prepare counter strategies to use against him. I mean do you really think Byun doesn't build planetaries around Whirlwind in the future only to lose to zealot harass? You think Taeja doesn't build turrets against Warp Prisms if they play again? You think whoever he plays in the future doesn't look at his games and prepare against his quirks etc etc? It's the same way some Koreans have struggled with foreigners at times before getting a better look at the way they play, or the same way a new build (parting triple nexus) can radically change play briefly before someone works out a counter (T going cloak and tanks for a while till P started to hesitate to do it like Gumiho did vs Puzzle).
True i concur with this.
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I'm really glad Symbol won, I was starting to feel that Protoss was abit OP after seeing Rain's games yesturday, but no more.
Life and Symbol both performed really well.
Symbol deserved to win, there's no doubt about it. He practiced hard against Seed's style. He never made any major mistakes as Seed did (losing third, not rebuilding tech). In that last series he was playing from a game down already, so a lot of pressure on him, but he held strong. Once he got a bit of lead in the match, he played calmly and really creeped his way to victory.
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Austria24420 Posts
On September 21 2012 00:08 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. Protoss can't throw up a million cannons, sit back and make an unbeatable army that's literally unbeatable. If anything, terran can do that on certain maps (looking at you, metropolis). You can dodge storms as terran, you can drop, you can kill colossi with vikings, ... As protoss you can... hope he stacks his shit and get a wonder vortex. Yeah cause Squirtle vs Mvp should how well that worked <3
Be honest, MVP's army was unbeatable until he engaged at the worst location of all time, his army super stacked and ready to get flushed down the archon toilet.
However, not the point.
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I love series like Seed vs Symbol. Seed wins the first set and Symbol comes in to win the second. Shows that they are super close in skill which is awesome :D
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On September 21 2012 00:06 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. This shows you have absolutely no idea how Z works. Over producing units is enough damage done to Zerg.
Except it has already been shown you can get up to 50 drones or so, block warpgate timings, and use the remaining units to delay Protoss third base. Your post shows you have no idea how PvZ works at all. The extra units delay my third, and Zerg can instantly take a fourth when they see the Protoss third attempting to go down. Additionally, if Protoss transitions into an all-in it can be spotted the second it moves out, and Zerg will already start with some units already built.
If overproducing units as Zerg early is bad, than builds like Stephano roach max have no merit. Zerg now has an optimal build order which counters any and all early Protoss aggression.
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On September 21 2012 00:07 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. Come on now, think plz. A game will look different if zerg is forced to mass units and max out on roaches compared to a game like this game 3 of symbol vs seed, where symbol could tech and expand like a mad man with out fear of anything. You can do economic damage without actually comitting to much.
Except you don't have to max on roaches to hold a +1 4 gate zealot timing. You counter that with a handful of roaches, and then take a fourth base.
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On September 21 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:06 Douillos wrote:On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. This shows you have absolutely no idea how Z works. Over producing units is enough damage done to Zerg. Except it has already been shown you can get up to 50 drones or so, block warpgate timings, and use the remaining units to delay Protoss third base. Your post shows you have no idea how PvZ works at all. The extra units delay my third, and Zerg can instantly take a fourth when they see the Protoss third attempting to go down. Additionally, if Protoss transitions into an all-in it can be spotted the second it moves out, and Zerg will already start with some units already built. If overproducing units as Zerg early is bad, than builds like Stephano roach max have no merit. Zerg now has an optimal build order which counters any and all early Protoss aggression.
Thats why in HOTS Protoss will have mass recall earlier in the game.
But its clear that atm, all games are going to lategame because... its needs a lot of multitask to have efficient harass early game.
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So Seed pulled a Jjakji I see. Less competition for HerO and TaeJa in Ro8.
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On September 21 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:06 Douillos wrote:On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. This shows you have absolutely no idea how Z works. Over producing units is enough damage done to Zerg. Except it has already been shown you can get up to 50 drones or so, block warpgate timings, and use the remaining units to delay Protoss third base. Your post shows you have no idea how PvZ works at all. The extra units delay my third, and Zerg can instantly take a fourth when they see the Protoss third attempting to go down. Additionally, if Protoss transitions into an all-in it can be spotted the second it moves out, and Zerg will already start with some units already built. If overproducing units as Zerg early is bad, than builds like Stephano roach max have no merit. Zerg now has an optimal build order which counters any and all early Protoss aggression.
This is completely false and it doesnt work like that. You can force units from Z AND hold your third.
Stephano roach max has been figured quite some time ago. It's also REALLY hard to transition out of and will get you a lot of losses vs 3 base 3 colossus timings.
Saying Z has an optimal build order that counters any early protoss agression is a good demonstration of you having no fucking clue about the matchup.
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On September 21 2012 00:14 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:07 Fjodorov wrote:On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. Come on now, think plz. A game will look different if zerg is forced to mass units and max out on roaches compared to a game like this game 3 of symbol vs seed, where symbol could tech and expand like a mad man with out fear of anything. You can do economic damage without actually comitting to much. Except you don't have to max on roaches to hold a +1 4 gate zealot timing. You counter that with a handful of roaches, and then take a fourth base.
+1 Zealot timing? You havent been playing the game for a while have you?
EDIT: and really, if you dont prepare for it or if you blindly prepare for it and it doesnt come, your +1 4 gate actually puts you ahead.
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On September 21 2012 00:18 Proseat wrote:So Seed pulled a Jjakji I see. Less competition for HerO and TaeJa in Ro8.
Ro16 is so stacked now I dont really think you can compare the 2...
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On September 20 2012 23:56 red4ce wrote:
Seed is the jjakji of protoss. He got his 1 GSL but the future belongs to Creator, Squirtle, Hero and whichever Kespa protoss emerge from the pack.
jjakji is a fantastic player who will be back, and no doubt will Seed strike back aswell. So even though I think we disagree it looks like we agree!
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Jesus! Protoss won the last GSL, WCS Korea, WCG Korea, TSL and they're doing extremely well in OSL. One Protoss gets knocked out in Ro16 Code S, thread turns into a whinefest!
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
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On September 21 2012 00:23 sitromit wrote:
Jesus! Protoss won the last GSL, WCS Korea, WCG Korea, TSL and they're doing extremely well in OSL. One Protoss gets knocked out in Ro16 Code S, thread turns into a whinefest!
Nobody is complaining that Protoss doesn't win they are simply voicing their dislike for late game PvZ.
I've seen plenty of Zerg players in this very thread comment the same thing.
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On September 21 2012 00:23 sitromit wrote:
Jesus! Protoss won the last GSL, WCS Korea, WCG Korea, TSL and they're doing extremely well in OSL. One Protoss gets knocked out in Ro16 Code S, thread turns into a whinefest!
so true, also seed fucked up and lost 5 sentries and his 3rd in the last game and people whine about lategame
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On September 21 2012 00:24 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:23 sitromit wrote:
Jesus! Protoss won the last GSL, WCS Korea, WCG Korea, TSL and they're doing extremely well in OSL. One Protoss gets knocked out in Ro16 Code S, thread turns into a whinefest! Nobody is complaining that Protoss doesn't win they are simply voicing their dislike for late game PvZ. I've seen plenty of Zerg players in this very thread comment the same thing.
I understand but Ive been in a lot of threads where terran's also "simply voiced their dislike for late game tvp" and got a lot of shit from toss.
So Yeah, these tears are delicatessen for me.
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EPT
