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On September 21 2012 00:23 sitromit wrote:
Jesus! Protoss won the last GSL, WCS Korea, WCG Korea, TSL and they're doing extremely well in OSL. One Protoss gets knocked out in Ro16 Code S, thread turns into a whinefest!
And now the guy that completely misses the topic enters the discussion. Nobody is complaining about winrates
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Are you kidding? I'm glad Seed is out. His GSL title is a total fluke. He won a GSL by having Byun pull SCVs for... no reason at all, a roll dice matchup in PvP and Symbol just let his season go right by him.
Symbol's victory must be sweet as... honey for him.
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Wow, Life is seriously on a roll these days holy cow...
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On September 21 2012 00:20 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:14 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:07 Fjodorov wrote:On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ  The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. Come on now, think plz. A game will look different if zerg is forced to mass units and max out on roaches compared to a game like this game 3 of symbol vs seed, where symbol could tech and expand like a mad man with out fear of anything. You can do economic damage without actually comitting to much. Except you don't have to max on roaches to hold a +1 4 gate zealot timing. You counter that with a handful of roaches, and then take a fourth base. +1 Zealot timing? You havent been playing the game for a while have you? EDIT: and really, if you dont prepare for it or if you blindly prepare for it and it doesnt come, your +1 4 gate actually puts you ahead.
But why wouldn't you prepare for it? You have good enough scouting where you can reasonably spot almost anything that comes at you, and deflect it. Moreover, I know how obsolete that build is, but what other options does Protoss have? Air play delays your third and spores build so fast that they can be up in time to deflect air pressure even if you dont see the actual stargate.
Outside of air play, what else can Protoss use to do damage early game? If you get your main FF'ed by warp prism sentry, you don't deserve to win anyways.
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On September 21 2012 00:34 TheDougler wrote:
Wow, Life is seriously on a roll these days holy cow...
Yeah pretty hard to figure him out i guess. He mixes up his play a lot. Also his micro is pretty good
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On September 20 2012 23:55 FakeDeath wrote:
I am sensing a ZvZ finals.
That would be nice. We've had every other matchup but this one.
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On September 21 2012 00:35 TheBB wrote:That would be nice. We've had every other matchup but this one.
Forgotten Nestea vs Losira already? For shame and you even have an IM icon. It's okay though that was probably the least watched GSL finals ever.
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On September 21 2012 00:35 TheBB wrote:That would be nice. We've had every other matchup but this one.
Nestea vs Losira gsl final
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On September 21 2012 00:35 TheBB wrote:That would be nice. We've had every other matchup but this one.
cant blame you for forgetting the nestea 4:0 losira stomp 
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On September 21 2012 00:19 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:06 Douillos wrote:On September 21 2012 00:05 Wingblade wrote:On September 21 2012 00:03 Douillos wrote:On September 20 2012 23:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 20 2012 23:57 Douillos wrote:I see a fuck load of toss' bitching about late game pvz, but hey remember you got late game pvt to compensate where you can just 1-a and scratch balls. See we can all QQ The difference is, you can actually win as terran even if protoss doesn't screw up. It's still hard, I agree, but it's doable. I think its the same thing in pvz than it is in tvp. If you dont do proper damage in mid game / early late game to your opponent, your fucked. DEAL WITH IT. How do you do damage though? Roaches counter any warpgate pushes if your build is at all crisp, queens counter air play and honestly if you let a warp prism warp in sentries and FF your ramp you deserve to lose anyways. This shows you have absolutely no idea how Z works. Over producing units is enough damage done to Zerg. Except it has already been shown you can get up to 50 drones or so, block warpgate timings, and use the remaining units to delay Protoss third base. Your post shows you have no idea how PvZ works at all. The extra units delay my third, and Zerg can instantly take a fourth when they see the Protoss third attempting to go down. Additionally, if Protoss transitions into an all-in it can be spotted the second it moves out, and Zerg will already start with some units already built. If overproducing units as Zerg early is bad, than builds like Stephano roach max have no merit. Zerg now has an optimal build order which counters any and all early Protoss aggression. This is completely false and it doesnt work like that. You can force units from Z AND hold your third. Stephano roach max has been figured quite some time ago. It's also REALLY hard to transition out of and will get you a lot of losses vs 3 base 3 colossus timings. Saying Z has an optimal build order that counters any early protoss agression is a good demonstration of you having no fucking clue about the matchup.
2 gas at 6, roach warren + evo at 7 has been used almost exclusively in the past 3 months, tell me what early harass works against that? Evo + queens blocks air play, roaches block zealot timings and warpgate timings. Evo also block DT play. What early timings work as Protoss anymore?
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On September 21 2012 00:29 freeshooter wrote:
Are you kidding? I'm glad Seed is out. His GSL title is a total fluke. He won a GSL by having Byun pull SCVs for... no reason at all, a roll dice matchup in PvP and Symbol just let his season go right by him.
Symbol's victory must be sweet as... honey for him.
Lol, that is like saying MMAs were a fluke because MVP didn't scout his proxy or Mvp's was because Squirtle and MKP crack under pressure. You can pretty much attribute every win to an opponent's mistake if you look close enough. Not sure how you can win GSL as a fluke since you have to go through several rounds in which the later rounds are Bo5.
Of course, you can argue the 'best' player doesn't necessary win. But that is true for all sports. The 'best' player can have a bad day or their opponents just gets on fire. Same with team sports, the team with the best regular season can crack under pressure. But you will have to be at least close to the top to win the championship. Therefore, you cannot claim a player is absolutely the best in the world right after a GSL win. But he definitely is ONE of the top players.
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wtb more Terrans in Ro8
MVP GO GOOOO
and MKP too
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On September 21 2012 00:37 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:35 TheBB wrote:On September 20 2012 23:55 FakeDeath wrote:
I am sensing a ZvZ finals. That would be nice. We've had every other matchup but this one. Forgotten Nestea vs Losira already? For shame and you even have an IM icon. It's okay though that was probably the least watched GSL finals ever.
Yeah I forgot that one obviously.
Don't really care much for teams to be honest, I just picked IM because... uhm...
Anyway, ZvZ is much better now, so it might just be watchable.
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On September 21 2012 00:37 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:35 TheBB wrote:On September 20 2012 23:55 FakeDeath wrote:
I am sensing a ZvZ finals. That would be nice. We've had every other matchup but this one. Forgotten Nestea vs Losira already? For shame and you even have an IM icon. It's okay though that was probably the least watched GSL finals ever.
Atleast these games where good (onesided though but good).
Better then laser show pvp finals.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 21 2012 00:29 freeshooter wrote:
Are you kidding? I'm glad Seed is out. His GSL title is a total fluke. He won a GSL by having Byun pull SCVs for... no reason at all, a roll dice matchup in PvP and Symbol just let his season go right by him.
Symbol's victory must be sweet as... honey for him.
His clutch performances in IPL TAC and WCS Korea (debatable) were also flukes, I take it? Getting out his Ro32 group, too. Hell, now that you say it everything he's done since making his first splash on the scene has pretty much been a fluke here, a freak performance there. Silly Seed, why so bad.
Am I doing this right?
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So far, in both groups, the players who have been in Code S the shortest have made it out in favour of players who have been in Code S longer.
If the pattern maintains itself, we will see Heart, JYP and Curious make it out, with a toss-up between Hero and Squirtle.
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2 gas at 6, roach warren + evo at 7 has been used almost exclusively in the past 3 months, tell me what early harass works against that? Evo + queens blocks air play, roaches block zealot timings and warpgate timings. Evo also block DT play. What early timings work as Protoss anymore?
I see 2-base Immo all-ins winning vs Z all the time.
But really, in all fairness, the game's probably as balanced as it could have gotten given the units and two years, but it's just frustrating to watch. Broodlord / Inferstor is completely ridiculous and the whole TvZ and PvZ matches revolve around not allowing Z to get there before they are already dead. TvP is similar where T has to win before 4/5 base scenario's. ZvZ and TvT are probably the least frustrating games to watch, although TvZ is alright too until Hive.
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On September 21 2012 00:45 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 00:29 freeshooter wrote:
Are you kidding? I'm glad Seed is out. His GSL title is a total fluke. He won a GSL by having Byun pull SCVs for... no reason at all, a roll dice matchup in PvP and Symbol just let his season go right by him.
Symbol's victory must be sweet as... honey for him. His clutch performances in IPL TAC and WCS Korea (debatable) were also flukes, I take it? Getting out his Ro32 group, too. Hell, now that you say it everything he's done since making his first splash on the scene has pretty much been a fluke here, a freak performance there. Silly Seed, why so bad. Am I doing this right?
People forget that even mantaining a godly 75% winrate ultimately means losing one match out of four.
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I wasn't expecting to Seed to fall out of Code S today! Not surprised by the people who did it though! He took on 2 great zergs.
Seed has strong confidence, so I wonder if this kind of set him back. I'm sure it won't effect his play though. He is a very good player.
Congrats to Life and Symbol!
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On September 21 2012 00:51 MuazizTremere wrote:Show nested quote +
2 gas at 6, roach warren + evo at 7 has been used almost exclusively in the past 3 months, tell me what early harass works against that? Evo + queens blocks air play, roaches block zealot timings and warpgate timings. Evo also block DT play. What early timings work as Protoss anymore?
I see 2-base Immo all-ins winning vs Z all the time. But really, in all fairness, the game's probably as balanced as it could have gotten given the units and two years, but it's just frustrating to watch. Broodlord / Inferstor is completely ridiculous and the whole TvZ and PvZ matches revolve around not allowing Z to get there before they are already dead. TvP is similar where T has to win before 4/5 base scenario's. ZvZ and TvT are probably the least frustrating games to watch, although TvZ is alright too until Hive.
I agree with this, and I feel that both terran and protoss have the tools to dismantle the zerg before they get that critical mass. The problem with pvz compared to tvz, in my opinion, is that while terran can chip away at the zerg constantly, and slowly wear them down, protoss kinda has to do their "thing" in one swoop. I am not sure if this is a problem with the game, or a problem with the gamers. I suspect its a mix of the two.
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EPT
