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There's no crowd today because Gamescom isn't open to the public until thursday |
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On August 16 2012 03:00 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 02:58 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:56 Holgerius wrote:
Will you stop the rape discussion? Jesus christ... Stop offending Christians. If we ever want to grow as a mainstream eSport, we're going to have to cut out all this negativity towards mainstream religion. + Show Spoiler + We really should ban Apollo from casting for saying "God Damnit" so much. Taking the lords name in vain is very offensive.
I feel like the only solution is to burn him at the stake live before the next MLG. That'll teach those heathens!
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seems that Bomber and Grubby have a winnable group 
dat MVP/Nestea group though
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On August 16 2012 02:59 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 02:53 Leth0 wrote:
I don't like how terran can lose so many workers , go down to less than 30, yet his production doesn't get interfered with at all. Due to mules he still has enough income to continually produce off all his barracks. Makes this game so much less interesting to watch when 1 race can just ignore so much economic damage. Yeah, and I don't like the way zerg can remake 20 drones in 30 seconds once I fried them with my hellions. Oh wait, actually I kinda like that - races are different and there are different ways to achieve victory. Versus terran the goto strategy is sniping the production. You can get there by killing workers, but it will not be as easy.
There is a significant difference there. The zergs production IS interfered with because those 20 larva are spent remaking workers and not units. The economic damage has a consequences on military production. Same can be said for protoss, yet I've seen countless games where a Terran will lose the majority of their workforce yet every single production building can maintain nonstop. Just makes me want to stop watching to be honest.
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On August 16 2012 02:55 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 02:53 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 16 2012 02:52 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:50 Chessz wrote:On August 16 2012 02:46 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 16 2012 02:40 bo1b wrote:On August 16 2012 02:38 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:On August 16 2012 02:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I'm pretty sure when I use the word "rape" to describe utterly dominating and crushing someone in the context of competition, I'm not referring to them actually having held down the opposing player and fucked them. Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything. Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though. See, this is what I don't get. Why should you use a touchy word which you could easily avoid? Its so much easier to avoid those words and not harm someone. Even if you feel its somewhat irrational of them, why not just make a minimum effort to be kind to your fellow man? Do you feel it's societies fault that a band aid solution to a problem is better then actually fixing it? Is wishing that people didn't mention rape better then providing support and therapy to people who were raped? Why not both? Why not avoid triggering people as well as providing them help. There's a difference between not flagrantly using the word rape and not addressing rape. Again, my whole philosophy on this issue is just try to be kind to your fellow man. It's a shame these two things are simultaneously perceived to be trivial: 1) the flagrant use of "rape" 2) the effort needed to choose different words/expand vocabulary They are trivial. Of all the injustices in the world, people taking offense from non-malicious use of a sensitive word is probably at the bottom, if even on the list at all. But it also takes no effort to avoid. Fixing famine is a huge issue, it requires a lot of effort from a lot of people. Individually avoiding the word "rape" because it can trigger PTSD, flashbacks, and other horrific things for victims takes pretty much zero effort. It doesn't take zero effort because most of the time it's a habitual or offhand remark. You know what takes zero effort? Not attacking the personality of people who offhandedly use an offensive word and assuming that they actually hate black people or think people who get raped are weaklings, or whatever. That's far more insensitive and malicious, and is exactly what you're doing when you consider people who say these words bad people.
Making an offhand remark doesn't really make them a bad person, especially if they aren't aware of what they're doing. Being aware of the connotations and possible implications of the word and still making no effort is somewhat dubious. Openly using language that could do someone harm and defending it is pretty sketchy. It just seems heartless to me to say something and then say "I know this is harmful but I'm ok with that."
Its not really my place to call anyone a "bad person". I an however speak up when I think someone is behaving irresponsibly. I honestly believe esports use of hate speech, slurs, and other controversial words is a bad thing. I think a lot of people in the community don't realize the connotations of what they're saying. It takes very little effort for me to post a few messages. Maybe someone will see this conversation and take something good away from it.
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Too bad for JYP 
Ninja edit.
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rape - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On August 16 2012 03:03 Flanq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 03:00 Dosey wrote:On August 16 2012 02:58 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:56 Holgerius wrote:
Will you stop the rape discussion? Jesus christ... Stop offending Christians. If we ever want to grow as a mainstream eSport, we're going to have to cut out all this negativity towards mainstream religion. + Show Spoiler + We really should ban Apollo from casting for saying "God Damnit" so much. Taking the lords name in vain is very offensive. I feel like the only solution is to burn him at the stake live before the next MLG. That'll teach those heathens!
As a burn victim I take offence to your misuse of the word burn.
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On August 16 2012 03:02 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 03:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 02:59 Godwrath wrote:On August 16 2012 02:56 shawster wrote:
holy shit it's jared from pure pwnage! i am offended you used the word holy, please stop that juvenile... something. Well, his character Jeremy constantly talks about 'owning' people, which is of course offensive to the descendants of slaves so it's a fair trade I should had ended it with /sarcasm ;P
Shit, unintentionally acceptable pun.
Anyway yeah I like Jarrett, he's gotten better as he's got a bit more comfortable, and I like the fact the guy is actually a gamer rather than a hot chick who's got the gig on that basis.
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Germany128 Posts
Our event website at esl.tv/iem or intelextrememasters.com is updated with the groups.
Group A gets PuMa and ForGG
Group B gets MVP and NesTea
Group C gets Bomber and Grubby
Group D gets MC and ReaL
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On August 16 2012 03:03 Flanq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 03:00 Dosey wrote:On August 16 2012 02:58 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:56 Holgerius wrote:
Will you stop the rape discussion? Jesus christ... Stop offending Christians. If we ever want to grow as a mainstream eSport, we're going to have to cut out all this negativity towards mainstream religion. + Show Spoiler + We really should ban Apollo from casting for saying "God Damnit" so much. Taking the lords name in vain is very offensive. I feel like the only solution is to burn him at the stake live before the next MLG. That'll teach those heathens!
That'll work. He looks kind of like Joan of Arc anyway. It'll be a fitting end.
On topic: Favorable group for Grubby ^_^
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Someone...just go make a Discussion thread on what language we should tolerate and what we should not.
I think it is a thread worthy topic.
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On August 16 2012 02:58 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 02:53 sc2holar wrote:On August 16 2012 02:46 bo1b wrote:On August 16 2012 02:45 Dosey wrote:On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:
1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.
2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.
You can't do both. It is our choice. GRRM can write an explicit rape scene in a book - It's a best seller and no one complains Someone mentions the word rape on a forum - The entire community is instantly labeled as cancerous and insensitive, preventing the scene from growing Makes sense. Millenium series had someone getting raped as well. That series of books seemed to be a commercial success. Did you read the books? the rape scene was used to establish the guy as a "bad guy" in the eyes of the reader. He was put to justice at the end of the 3rd book. Fiction is fiction. When rape is portrayed in fiction (unless its some kind of perverted twisted porn) its always portrayed as a horrible, highly traumatizing experience. Using a rape scene to establish that guy as a bad guy was absolutely irrelevant to why i brought it up. If someone is able to write a graphic rape scene without being persecuted on a forum somewhere because he brought up some horrible memories in someone, then someone on a forum should be able to write down that jyp just got raped by mvp.
You are so illogical i dont know how to respond. Feminists and anti-rape groups, womens-rights groups and anti-woman abuse grouås applauded his books for bringing the character lisbeth salander, who portrays what many innocent women go through in their lives, to the public, and the books increased peoples hostality thowards rape and rapists, not thowards the author who wrote the novels. Stieg Larsson was a feminist and womans-right activist himself and he wanted to show people how horrible and traumatizing the act of rape actually is.
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United States15275 Posts
IEM group stages are round robin? I can't see winners' format working without a multiple of 4.
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On August 16 2012 03:03 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 02:55 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:53 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 16 2012 02:52 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:50 Chessz wrote:On August 16 2012 02:46 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 16 2012 02:40 bo1b wrote:On August 16 2012 02:38 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:
[quote]
Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything. Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though. See, this is what I don't get. Why should you use a touchy word which you could easily avoid? Its so much easier to avoid those words and not harm someone. Even if you feel its somewhat irrational of them, why not just make a minimum effort to be kind to your fellow man? Do you feel it's societies fault that a band aid solution to a problem is better then actually fixing it? Is wishing that people didn't mention rape better then providing support and therapy to people who were raped? Why not both? Why not avoid triggering people as well as providing them help. There's a difference between not flagrantly using the word rape and not addressing rape. Again, my whole philosophy on this issue is just try to be kind to your fellow man. It's a shame these two things are simultaneously perceived to be trivial: 1) the flagrant use of "rape" 2) the effort needed to choose different words/expand vocabulary They are trivial. Of all the injustices in the world, people taking offense from non-malicious use of a sensitive word is probably at the bottom, if even on the list at all. But it also takes no effort to avoid. Fixing famine is a huge issue, it requires a lot of effort from a lot of people. Individually avoiding the word "rape" because it can trigger PTSD, flashbacks, and other horrific things for victims takes pretty much zero effort. It doesn't take zero effort because most of the time it's a habitual or offhand remark. You know what takes zero effort? Not attacking the personality of people who offhandedly use an offensive word and assuming that they actually hate black people or think people who get raped are weaklings, or whatever. That's far more insensitive and malicious, and is exactly what you're doing when you consider people who say these words bad people. Making an offhand remark doesn't really make them a bad person, especially if they aren't aware of what they're doing. Being aware of the connotations and possible implications of the word and still making no effort is somewhat dubious. Openly using language that could do someone harm and defending it is pretty sketchy. It just seems heartless to me to say something and then say "I know this is harmful but I'm ok with that." Its not really my place to call anyone a "bad person". I an however speak up when I think someone is behaving irresponsibly. I honestly believe esports use of hate speech, slurs, and other controversial words is a bad thing. I think a lot of people in the community don't realize the connotations of what they're saying. It takes very little effort for me to post a few messages. Maybe someone will see this conversation and take something good away from it.
In my experience those who whine the most about such language, regardless of context aren't exactly proactive in fixing the issues, be it racism/sexism or whatever, indeed sometimes stoking the flames of predjudice. My best friend on the other hand has a sense of humour that would make Richard Pryor blush on the other hand, but he's genuinely one of the most decent and considerate persons I've ever had the pleasure to meet
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On August 16 2012 03:04 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 03:03 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 03:00 Dosey wrote:On August 16 2012 02:58 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:56 Holgerius wrote:
Will you stop the rape discussion? Jesus christ... Stop offending Christians. If we ever want to grow as a mainstream eSport, we're going to have to cut out all this negativity towards mainstream religion. + Show Spoiler + We really should ban Apollo from casting for saying "God Damnit" so much. Taking the lords name in vain is very offensive. I feel like the only solution is to burn him at the stake live before the next MLG. That'll teach those heathens! As a burn victim I take offence to your misuse of the word burn.
As an IM and Burn energy drink fan, I take offence to your misuse of the word victim.
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On August 16 2012 03:04 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 03:03 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 03:00 Dosey wrote:On August 16 2012 02:58 Flanq wrote:On August 16 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On August 16 2012 02:56 Holgerius wrote:
Will you stop the rape discussion? Jesus christ... Stop offending Christians. If we ever want to grow as a mainstream eSport, we're going to have to cut out all this negativity towards mainstream religion. + Show Spoiler + We really should ban Apollo from casting for saying "God Damnit" so much. Taking the lords name in vain is very offensive. I feel like the only solution is to burn him at the stake live before the next MLG. That'll teach those heathens! As a burn victim I take offence to your misuse of the word burn.
How do you know I meant burn with fire and not just insult him a lot?! You're not the boss of me!
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EPT
