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On July 04 2012 20:51 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:49 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 Breach_hu wrote:
why not make hellions with this? They die to siege tank friendly fire (among other things), and since they're mechanical medivacs won't heal them. Hellions are pretty much useless at this stage in the game. they are good for raw dps and bait the toss units in. genius had only 2 colossus and pure zealots. againts that composition with tanks they are good with +2.
May I point you to the liquipedia page of the Hellion:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hellion
Now say again that hellions are good for 'raw dps'. A single unstimmed marine at +3 has the same DPS as a +3 blue flame hellion against light.
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On July 04 2012 20:49 Walitgon wrote:
TOSSSS OPPPPPPPP
Moar work for banhammer.
So, he just unsieged his whole army and got caught offguard, which happens to be a suicide in every matchup as a terran. Tell me more how that's TOSS OP?
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On July 04 2012 20:51 Fragile51 wrote:
Showed a lot of promise, but i just dont think Whirlwind is a very good map for Tank styles vs protoss...too easy to get caught unsieged.
actually i feel like the tank style wasnt that bad...he kept claiming good positions and forced genius back again and again.....but he got caught unsieged ONCE and his 190 food army and a 25 minute macro game ended IN A FEW SECONDS.
there is something wrong about how sc2 lategame works in general, independent of races.
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On July 04 2012 20:51 proofy wrote:
Yet another game ending in 5 seconds to a deathball. So much fun to watch!
What game were you watching?
I've seen a speed prism, around 10 smaller engagements, harrass throught the entire game from both players and really back and forth action. Sure, it was a 10 second engagement that ended the game, but up until then it was awesome.
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I agree with Tasteless in that that map is probably one of the worst for late game siege tank play. The huge wide open space in the middle provides the protoss with too much maneuverability.
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United States97276 Posts
On July 04 2012 20:54 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" Tanks don't do damage to zealots after the tank nerf ages and ages ago If you look carefully, byun actually used his tanks to target fire the stalkers. They weren;t on auto attack or they would have hit the zealots. Yeah, but at some point protoss will just make zealot archon and then you need like 10 tank shots to kill something. Then change comp? No one is saying you have to stick EXCLUSIVELY to tank. :/ That's not how terran works, you don't just instantly warp in shit on the map to tech switch or hold down 4srrrrrrrrrrrrr or 4szzzzzzzzzzz, you have to build an infrastructure and support it. If you invest in tanks, tank upgrades and factories and you don't use them, then why invest at all? It isn't as if zealot archon is weak against standard compositions. R? Did Blizzard show you a super secret gateway unit that nobody knows about? lol.
He's comparing terran to protoss and zerg
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On July 04 2012 20:51 proofy wrote:
Yet another game ending in 5 seconds to a deathball. So much fun to watch!
Why, specifically, did you think that was an awful game? Genius played a bit sloppy and Byun lost the game in about five seconds, but I think the consensus is that it was a pretty interesting game to watch, at the very least.
EDIT: Looks like I got ninja edit'd. The comment I was trying to Quote just said, "Awful game."
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On July 04 2012 20:51 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:49 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 Breach_hu wrote:
why not make hellions with this? They die to siege tank friendly fire (among other things), and since they're mechanical medivacs won't heal them. Hellions are pretty much useless at this stage in the game. they are good for raw dps and bait the toss units in. genius had only 2 colossus and pure zealots. againts that composition with tanks they are good with +2.
You don't understand.
Hellions have a short range, once they are in range of the Zealots they are so vital in destroying they're also in range of the collosus.
Between the Siege Tank splash and the collosus fire the hellions will just die in moments. That's whats happened to me every time I've used late game Hellions against Zealot/Collosus
In theory you'd think their high DPS and splash would be good against the Zealots in the composition, but in practice their low durability just makes them a huge liability, they just do not do enough damage to justify their fragility.
That's exactly why Blizzard is adding in the Battle Hellion in HOTS to compensate for that VERY weakness. If it wasn't such a glaring weakness do you think Blizzard would be adding in a special upgrade for them specifically designed to correct that weakness?
Come on. Try out Hellions in that same situation yourself if you don;'t believe me. They're dead supply.
What Byun REALLY needed was Ghosts.
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On July 04 2012 20:54 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 Breach_hu wrote:On July 04 2012 20:49 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 Breach_hu wrote:
why not make hellions with this? They die to siege tank friendly fire (among other things), and since they're mechanical medivacs won't heal them. Hellions are pretty much useless at this stage in the game. they are good for raw dps and bait the toss units in. genius had only 2 colossus and pure zealots. againts that composition with tanks they are good with +2. May I point you to the liquipedia page of the Hellion: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HellionNow say again that hellions are good for 'raw dps'. A single unstimmed marine at +3 has the same DPS as a +3 blue flame hellion against light.
Pretty sure hellions are the lowest dps unit terran has save for the scv :p
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On July 04 2012 20:51 blacksheepwall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:50 Disarmed wrote:
this fucking sucks....a game is decided within 5 seconds. I love that volatility. But I feel like I'm the only one. If you lose your ENTIRE army, obviously you're going to lose the game. Battles do happen stupid fast in SC:II though.
Volatility is fine if both sides are subject to it at the same degree; but as shown in that game, Genius definitely made more mistakes engagement-wise, but the difference is, P doesn't usually lose your whole army to one mistakes (such as those colossus being out of position so many times), whereas T does.
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On July 04 2012 20:54 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" Tanks don't do damage to zealots after the tank nerf ages and ages ago If you look carefully, byun actually used his tanks to target fire the stalkers. They weren;t on auto attack or they would have hit the zealots. Yeah, but at some point protoss will just make zealot archon and then you need like 10 tank shots to kill something. Then change comp? No one is saying you have to stick EXCLUSIVELY to tank. :/ That's not how terran works, you don't just instantly warp in shit on the map to tech switch or hold down 4srrrrrrrrrrrrr or 4szzzzzzzzzzz, you have to build an infrastructure and support it. If you invest in tanks, tank upgrades and factories and you don't use them, then why invest at all? It isn't as if zealot archon is weak against standard compositions. R? Did Blizzard show you a super secret gateway unit that nobody knows about? lol.
Zergling and Roach..
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On July 04 2012 20:52 rothsbury wrote:
The reason why tanks don't work that well is chargelots. Chargelots are the most cost efficient units in the game. Before charge zealots are really good: they only cost 100 mins and have very good DPS, but this is counteracted by their relatively low speed and the fact that they are melée. But with charge they connect almost instantly, which largely removes their only drawback. Even marines (generally thought to be really cost efficient) still have the vulnerability to splash throughout the entire game. But zealots have an upgrade that largely removes their disadvantage. The only way you can really handle them as terran is to constantly kite back with stimmed units, but this obviously doesn't work with sieged tanks. If your army stays with the tanks it is crushed by high HP high DPS zealots, and if your bio kites back the zealots will tear through the tanks.
10/10 for amazing explanation for why siege tanks are not good in tvp
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On July 04 2012 20:54 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" Tanks don't do damage to zealots after the tank nerf ages and ages ago If you look carefully, byun actually used his tanks to target fire the stalkers. They weren;t on auto attack or they would have hit the zealots. Yeah, but at some point protoss will just make zealot archon and then you need like 10 tank shots to kill something. Then change comp? No one is saying you have to stick EXCLUSIVELY to tank. :/ That's not how terran works, you don't just instantly warp in shit on the map to tech switch or hold down 4srrrrrrrrrrrrr or 4szzzzzzzzzzz, you have to build an infrastructure and support it. If you invest in tanks, tank upgrades and factories and you don't use them, then why invest at all? It isn't as if zealot archon is weak against standard compositions. R? Did Blizzard show you a super secret gateway unit that nobody knows about? lol.
are you really that stupid?
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On July 04 2012 20:50 manloveman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:45 Talack wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" guess you got shut down pretty quickly there lol Yes clumping all the tanks like that is the way to siegetank.
You are a genius (pun intended), obviously no other T player, including x-Brood war pros and 4 times GSL champion do know how to position tanks, it's so easy in the middle of the game but they are all noobs.
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On July 04 2012 20:51 proofy wrote:
Yet another game ending in 5 seconds to a deathball. So much fun to watch!
Cmon it was a really nice game. Genius had better eco from the start that's it.
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On July 04 2012 20:54 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 Breach_hu wrote:On July 04 2012 20:49 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 Breach_hu wrote:
why not make hellions with this? They die to siege tank friendly fire (among other things), and since they're mechanical medivacs won't heal them. Hellions are pretty much useless at this stage in the game. they are good for raw dps and bait the toss units in. genius had only 2 colossus and pure zealots. againts that composition with tanks they are good with +2. May I point you to the liquipedia page of the Hellion: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HellionNow say again that hellions are good for 'raw dps'. A single unstimmed marine at +3 has the same DPS as a +3 blue flame hellion against light.
That only takes 2 Zealots being hit to make them viable, 3 to outshine marines. 
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 04 2012 20:54 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" Tanks don't do damage to zealots after the tank nerf ages and ages ago If you look carefully, byun actually used his tanks to target fire the stalkers. They weren;t on auto attack or they would have hit the zealots. Yeah, but at some point protoss will just make zealot archon and then you need like 10 tank shots to kill something. Then change comp? No one is saying you have to stick EXCLUSIVELY to tank. :/ That's not how terran works, you don't just instantly warp in shit on the map to tech switch or hold down 4srrrrrrrrrrrrr or 4szzzzzzzzzzz, you have to build an infrastructure and support it. If you invest in tanks, tank upgrades and factories and you don't use them, then why invest at all? It isn't as if zealot archon is weak against standard compositions. R? Did Blizzard show you a super secret gateway unit that nobody knows about? lol.
Its called the Stalklot... I hear its a zealot on top of a stalker that dies if blink is used
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On July 04 2012 20:53 Glorfindel! wrote:Incredibly boring to watch SC2 games that takes 25-30 minutes end in 5-10 second battles.. 
Yeah but can't really blame the game for something like that, it was all Byun derping. If one of the players randomly move-commands their entire army into their opponent it's also gonna be a quick slaughter.
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On July 04 2012 20:54 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:53 FataLe wrote:On July 04 2012 20:51 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:51 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 ImNightmare wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Horseballs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" Tanks don't do damage to zealots after the tank nerf ages and ages ago If you look carefully, byun actually used his tanks to target fire the stalkers. They weren;t on auto attack or they would have hit the zealots. Yeah, but at some point protoss will just make zealot archon and then you need like 10 tank shots to kill something. Then change comp? No one is saying you have to stick EXCLUSIVELY to tank. :/ That's not how terran works, you don't just instantly warp in shit on the map to tech switch or hold down 4srrrrrrrrrrrrr or 4szzzzzzzzzzz, you have to build an infrastructure and support it. If you invest in tanks, tank upgrades and factories and you don't use them, then why invest at all? It isn't as if zealot archon is weak against standard compositions. I wanna see you hold 4srrrrrr when you see immortals or maruders. And btw, zergs were using roaches before the queen buff to counter hellions and had to stop making them when mid game arrived. wow dude c'mon he replied to you in an appropriate manner and you fire back with that? lol That isn't appropriate? Zergs HAVE to invest in roaches before queen buff because of hidden hellion all ins. Then they have to abandoned it after mid game arrived.
you post was edited when i made my quote.
however the guys point was at that point in a game he can't just magically tech switch. He's committed, albeit until super late game. where as Protoss (some flexibility) and Zerg (most flexibility) can choose to amass an appropriate counter to the current enemy ball almost straight away.
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Genius harassment and defense won the game. It forced mistakes from Byun, and as he was way behind in economy that means game over.
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EPT
