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On July 04 2012 20:55 kafkaesque wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 proofy wrote:
Yet another game ending in 5 seconds to a deathball. So much fun to watch! What game were you watching? I've seen a speed prism, around 10 smaller engagements, harrass throught the entire game from both players and really back and forth action. Sure, it was a 10 second engagement that ended the game, but up until then it was awesome.
too bad your 10 small engagements dont mean shit because its still the deathball fight around 5-6 seconds that wins the game
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I agree with those saying whirlwind is a bad map. There are to many huge maps with the only purpose of providing "epic" macro games. People forget that with the warp gate the size of the map doesnt matter for protoss when it comes to aggresive strats and macro. Im convinced that some of the great success protoss players are having these days is because of the many big maps available. I would much rather have taldarim back because its a rather big map but with the rocks at the third it isnt the "no attack before 20 min" map.
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On July 04 2012 20:50 manloveman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:45 Talack wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" guess you got shut down pretty quickly there lol Yes clumping all the tanks like that is the way to siegetank.
You seem to be missing the point, the problem isn't clumping them (though that made that battle worse) the problem is that if you go siegetank you hobble yourselve basically. You must leapfrog over the entire map if you want to be safe in any way, and frankly that simply doesn't work.
The time it takes to cross the entire map like that means the protoss can dance circles around you and set up the perfect flanks with zealots (which also kill siegetanks). Simply put, Siegetanks don't work lategame, you cannot move fast enough to counter your opponents movement.
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On July 04 2012 20:56 Disarmed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:55 kafkaesque wrote:On July 04 2012 20:51 proofy wrote:
Yet another game ending in 5 seconds to a deathball. So much fun to watch! What game were you watching? I've seen a speed prism, around 10 smaller engagements, harrass throught the entire game from both players and really back and forth action. Sure, it was a 10 second engagement that ended the game, but up until then it was awesome. too bad your 10 small engagements dont mean shit because its still the deathball fight around 5-6 seconds that wins the game
Yeah the win was the result of the giant engagement it wasn't starvation or drop and base denial. Essentially the smaller engagements meant nothing overall.
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On July 04 2012 20:56 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:53 Glorfindel! wrote:Incredibly boring to watch SC2 games that takes 25-30 minutes end in 5-10 second battles..  Yeah but can't really blame the game for something like that, it was all Byun derping. If one of the players randomly move-commands their entire army into their opponent it's also gonna be a quick slaughter.
Kinda like how Genius tried to a move right into Byun's siege line a few minutes earlier and ate the tank fire? Yeah its not 100% true.
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Whirlwind is so bad it hurts my head looking at it. I hope they take it out, just too big.
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On July 04 2012 20:53 Rokoz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:48 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:42 Fragile51 wrote:
siege tanks were bad in TvP they said
make only bio they said Now BuyN lose. Yes, they are bad. When you got 40 less workers, yes they are bad. So with 40 more workers siege tanks are good, ok I get it now. If tanks were actually good in TvP you would see them used more. When u can reinforce your army, yes they are good. The thing is that when you have siege tanks it's very easy for the mobile Protoss deathball catch the Terran player unsieged just like what happened in this game. And when it comes to reinforcing Terran is the most ineffective at reinforcing army.
mobile Protoss deathball
mobile Protoss
mobile
not protoss
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On July 04 2012 20:56 nvrs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:50 manloveman wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Talack wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" guess you got shut down pretty quickly there lol Yes clumping all the tanks like that is the way to siegetank. You are a genius (pun intended), obisouly no other T player, including x-Brood war pros and 4 times GSL champion do not know how to position tanks, it's so easy in the middle of the game but they are all noobs.
So you are saying you should clumb them like he did? Most broodwar games I have seen they spread them out, so dont even know what you are on about
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On July 04 2012 20:57 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:50 manloveman wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Talack wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" guess you got shut down pretty quickly there lol Yes clumping all the tanks like that is the way to siegetank. You seem to be missing the point, the problem isn't clumping them (though that made that battle worse) the problem is that if you go siegetank you hobble yourselve basically. You must leapfrog over the entire map if you want to be safe in any way, and frankly that simply doesn't work. The time it takes to cross the entire map like that means the protoss can dance circles around you and set up the perfect flanks with zealots (which also kill siegetanks). Simply put, Siegetanks don't work lategame, you cannot move fast enough to counter your opponents movement.
+ you better spend the money on ghosts (deal huge amount of damage and don't splash your army), medivacs (heal MMM) and vikings (good vs collo and observer sniping so ghost can cloack).
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On July 04 2012 20:58 Akhee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:53 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:42 Fragile51 wrote:
siege tanks were bad in TvP they said
make only bio they said Now BuyN lose. Yes, they are bad. When you got 40 less workers, yes they are bad. So with 40 more workers siege tanks are good, ok I get it now. If tanks were actually good in TvP you would see them used more. When u can reinforce your army, yes they are good. The thing is that when you have siege tanks it's very easy for the mobile Protoss deathball catch the Terran player unsieged just like what happened in this game. And when it comes to reinforcing Terran is the most ineffective at reinforcing army. mobile Protoss deathball mobile Protoss mobile not protoss
Actually Protoss deathballs are WAY more mobile than any siege tank heavy composition.
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On July 04 2012 20:58 Akhee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:53 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:42 Fragile51 wrote:
siege tanks were bad in TvP they said
make only bio they said Now BuyN lose. Yes, they are bad. When you got 40 less workers, yes they are bad. So with 40 more workers siege tanks are good, ok I get it now. If tanks were actually good in TvP you would see them used more. When u can reinforce your army, yes they are good. The thing is that when you have siege tanks it's very easy for the mobile Protoss deathball catch the Terran player unsieged just like what happened in this game. And when it comes to reinforcing Terran is the most ineffective at reinforcing army. mobile Protoss deathball mobile Protoss mobile not protoss
The protoss deathball is super mobile. Collosus are fucking walking siege tanks that have no terrain restrictions and don't need to siege up, chargelots and stalkers are faster than MMM and you can build units anywhere. Super mobile
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On July 04 2012 20:58 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:56 Logros wrote:On July 04 2012 20:53 Glorfindel! wrote:Incredibly boring to watch SC2 games that takes 25-30 minutes end in 5-10 second battles.. Yeah but can't really blame the game for something like that, it was all Byun derping. If one of the players randomly move-commands their entire army into their opponent it's also gonna be a quick slaughter. Kinda like how Genius tried to a move right into Byun's siege line a few minutes earlier and ate the tank fire? Yeah its not 100% true.
There's small and big mistakes, taking a few tank shots isn't really big in comparison.
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On July 04 2012 20:55 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:54 Thrombozyt wrote:On July 04 2012 20:51 Breach_hu wrote:On July 04 2012 20:49 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 04 2012 20:46 Breach_hu wrote:
why not make hellions with this? They die to siege tank friendly fire (among other things), and since they're mechanical medivacs won't heal them. Hellions are pretty much useless at this stage in the game. they are good for raw dps and bait the toss units in. genius had only 2 colossus and pure zealots. againts that composition with tanks they are good with +2. May I point you to the liquipedia page of the Hellion: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HellionNow say again that hellions are good for 'raw dps'. A single unstimmed marine at +3 has the same DPS as a +3 blue flame hellion against light. Pretty sure hellions are the lowest dps unit terran has save for the scv :p
Actually:
The SCV has more DPS than a hellion vs armored targets.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCV : DPS 3.3
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hellion : DPS 3.2
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On July 04 2012 20:56 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:51 proofy wrote:
Yet another game ending in 5 seconds to a deathball. So much fun to watch! Cmon it was a really nice game. Genius had better eco from the start that's it.
wrong x2
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what happened to the good old mass thor TvP? I remember it being boss
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On July 04 2012 20:59 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:58 Akhee wrote:On July 04 2012 20:53 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:42 Fragile51 wrote:
siege tanks were bad in TvP they said
make only bio they said Now BuyN lose. Yes, they are bad. When you got 40 less workers, yes they are bad. So with 40 more workers siege tanks are good, ok I get it now. If tanks were actually good in TvP you would see them used more. When u can reinforce your army, yes they are good. The thing is that when you have siege tanks it's very easy for the mobile Protoss deathball catch the Terran player unsieged just like what happened in this game. And when it comes to reinforcing Terran is the most ineffective at reinforcing army. mobile Protoss deathball mobile Protoss mobile not protoss Actually Protoss deathballs are WAY more mobile than any siege tank heavy composition.
Agreed, there is almost no setup at all for a fight with a deathball compared to any siege tank related composition.
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On July 04 2012 20:59 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:58 Akhee wrote:On July 04 2012 20:53 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:48 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:47 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Stormiii wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 Rokoz wrote:On July 04 2012 20:42 Fragile51 wrote:
siege tanks were bad in TvP they said
make only bio they said Now BuyN lose. Yes, they are bad. When you got 40 less workers, yes they are bad. So with 40 more workers siege tanks are good, ok I get it now. If tanks were actually good in TvP you would see them used more. When u can reinforce your army, yes they are good. The thing is that when you have siege tanks it's very easy for the mobile Protoss deathball catch the Terran player unsieged just like what happened in this game. And when it comes to reinforcing Terran is the most ineffective at reinforcing army. mobile Protoss deathball mobile Protoss mobile not protoss The protoss deathball is super mobile. Collosus are fucking walking siege tanks that have no terrain restrictions and don't need to siege up, chargelots and stalkers are faster than MMM and you can build units anywhere. Super mobile
Even david kim said in his inteview that colossus are like siege tanks
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On July 04 2012 20:58 manloveman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 20:56 nvrs wrote:On July 04 2012 20:50 manloveman wrote:On July 04 2012 20:45 Talack wrote:On July 04 2012 20:44 manloveman wrote:
Terrans whines beyond belief about balance, until...
"Hey maybe try we should try tanks?" guess you got shut down pretty quickly there lol Yes clumping all the tanks like that is the way to siegetank. You are a genius (pun intended), obisouly no other T player, including x-Brood war pros and 4 times GSL champion do not know how to position tanks, it's so easy in the middle of the game but they are all noobs. So you are saying you should clumb them like he did? Most broodwar games I have seen they spread them out, so dont even know what you are on about
If you spread the tanks out they are susceptible to pick offs by chargelots, who will always be able to get at least 2 hits in, even if they don't, merely by touching the siege tanks, they kill them with friendly splash. Spreading tanks out only makes you more vulnerable.
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EPT
