|
On May 02 2012 21:43 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:37 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:29 wasabay wrote:On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say? I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 3 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise Irregardless, I think he would've defended with good control. MVP decided to flip some coins today and I think a lot of people would have been very disappointed in him if naniwa had practiced some slightly different openings for these maps. People need to stop calling early rush coin flipping. It's coin flipping when its blind, and there is an equal probability of your opponent playing safe and playing greedy. If your opponent plays greedy 75% and safe 25%, an early cheese is not a coin flip, more like 75% chance of success. When your opponent always plays greedy, a well executed proxy 2 rax is as far from a coin flip as possible.
It's coin flipping because you are wrong about naniwa PvT, his openings aren't generally greedy. He's played so much 3 gate pressure expand. He played 1 gate expand with saved chrono's in game 3 which wins by default if he scouts proxy, then he majorly fucks up control and loses anyway.
|
i will sob uncontrollably if we have to see a PVP finals lol.. So happy for MVP overcoming injuries and not being able to train...such a talented player..also yay Jinro's record still in tact 
|
On May 02 2012 21:07 InoyouS2 wrote:
The difference between if NaNiwa won with cheese against Mvp is that Mvp is known and has proven he is the very best when it comes to macro mechanics and late-game pushes, his late-game stats echo that when they throw it up on the GOM cast.
Mvp cheesing just to me signifies that he is a completely well-rounded player, who is unpredictable, it also might indicate that he doesn't want to play long games because of his wrists, but the fact is Mvp is and always has been a better player than NaNiwa.
there is a reason Flash was called the cheddar terran and still revered, his cheeses were borderline abusive
|
On May 02 2012 21:50 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:43 zefreak wrote:On May 02 2012 21:37 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:29 wasabay wrote:On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say? I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 3 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise Irregardless, I think he would've defended with good control. MVP decided to flip some coins today and I think a lot of people would have been very disappointed in him if naniwa had practiced some slightly different openings for these maps. People need to stop calling early rush coin flipping. It's coin flipping when its blind, and there is an equal probability of your opponent playing safe and playing greedy. If your opponent plays greedy 75% and safe 25%, an early cheese is not a coin flip, more like 75% chance of success. When your opponent always plays greedy, a well executed proxy 2 rax is as far from a coin flip as possible. It's coin flipping because you are wrong about naniwa PvT, his openings aren't generally greedy. He's played so much 3 gate pressure expand. He played 1 gate expand with saved chrono's in game 3 which wins by default if he scouts proxy, then he majorly fucks up control and loses anyway.
Well apparently Mvp is wrong about Naniwa as well. And I'm sure he studied his opponent prior to today. I think Mvp probably knows Naniwa's playstyle than you do. And hes not the first korean to say this either, Leenock has said it and MC has as well.
|
On May 02 2012 21:22 felisconcolori wrote:
Okay, just to see if I'm doing a LR right -
My player won because of superior skills, which you would know if you didn't have 0 knowledge of the game. An all in is completely acceptable as a strategic play unless you do it against my player in which case it's a noob move.
Okay, now seriousness...
Sad to see Naniwa go, but he was against MVP. He still made it pretty far into the tournament, but his play style seems weak to quick Terran attacks. Poor Oz - but Parting is looking really strong. I wouldn't mind seeing a Squirtle/Parting finals. (Is that possible?)
Thats basically what I ve predicted all along.
I think PartinG proves too much of a PvT challenge for MVP, and then Squirtle kills the Team Liquid duo, and takes the final due to his incredible PvP which should pull him through against HerO and PartinG.
But who knows maybe Supernova turns into a TvP beastmode, and makes it to the final.
Now with favorites like DRG, aLive, MC and MMA out anything can happen.
|
On May 02 2012 21:34 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. You can punish a Nexus First build with something else than a 2 proxy rax. If you don't believe me, check Assembly replays for DieStar. MVP choose the easy way; and it saddens a lot of the foreign fans. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:33 Yaki wrote:
After reading all the comments yesterday in the destiny drama thread and now in this one, I really am disgusted about this community, I thought it was just a minority but no, people are just so fucked up in their mind. That's just not how we're gonna get this thing growing. So much hipocrisy. Nobody would have said anything if it wasn't naniwa today. You can go back to aAa if you wish, I've heard they are nice.
butthurt fanboys are always my favorite posts to read! btw great analysis on the M-TL cw!
|
I'm probably the only one who expects a mvp vs supernova final :p
|
On May 02 2012 22:04 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:50 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:43 zefreak wrote:On May 02 2012 21:37 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:29 wasabay wrote:On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say? I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 3 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise Irregardless, I think he would've defended with good control. MVP decided to flip some coins today and I think a lot of people would have been very disappointed in him if naniwa had practiced some slightly different openings for these maps. People need to stop calling early rush coin flipping. It's coin flipping when its blind, and there is an equal probability of your opponent playing safe and playing greedy. If your opponent plays greedy 75% and safe 25%, an early cheese is not a coin flip, more like 75% chance of success. When your opponent always plays greedy, a well executed proxy 2 rax is as far from a coin flip as possible. It's coin flipping because you are wrong about naniwa PvT, his openings aren't generally greedy. He's played so much 3 gate pressure expand. He played 1 gate expand with saved chrono's in game 3 which wins by default if he scouts proxy, then he majorly fucks up control and loses anyway. Well apparently Mvp is wrong about Naniwa as well. And I'm sure he studied his opponent prior to today. I think Mvp probably knows Naniwa's playstyle than you do. And hes not the first korean to say this either, Leenock has said it and MC has as well.
Actually he probably hasn't seen a fraction on the naniwa games I've seen, so it's understandable if he had that impression based on nani's GSL games. When you attribute naniwa's strong mid/late game to overly greedy openings you are just plain wrong, though.
|
|
|
On May 02 2012 21:56 IMNasty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:07 InoyouS2 wrote:
The difference between if NaNiwa won with cheese against Mvp is that Mvp is known and has proven he is the very best when it comes to macro mechanics and late-game pushes, his late-game stats echo that when they throw it up on the GOM cast.
Mvp cheesing just to me signifies that he is a completely well-rounded player, who is unpredictable, it also might indicate that he doesn't want to play long games because of his wrists, but the fact is Mvp is and always has been a better player than NaNiwa. there is a reason Flash was called the cheddar terran and still revered, his cheeses were borderline abusive
i think that was also partly due to the fact that no player would ever want to get into a late game macro war with him without having a significant advantage.
|
Wow people are terrible at rating games. Example, how the fuck could 30% of people thing Parting Oz game 1 was a 5 star game?! There was not a single 5 star game today, nothing even close.
|
Like I said before..I hear people talk about this amazing PvP of Oz...don't see it AGAIN.
|
Actually, I think MVP would love to play super late game with BCs, ghosts and ravens. But sadly, no Protoss will let him transitiion into it because they do these cheesely 3-4 base attacks with their zealot, archon, HT deathball. They are all trying to dodge the super late game vs MVP.
|
On May 02 2012 22:22 vthree wrote:
Actually, I think MVP would love to play super late game with BCs, ghosts and ravens. But sadly, no Protoss will let him transitiion into it because they do these cheesely 3-4 base attacks with their zealot, archon, HT deathball. They are all trying to dodge the super late game vs MVP.
I like your style sir
|
On May 02 2012 22:16 Yaki wrote:
I'm probably the only one who expects a mvp vs supernova final :p
...yes you are
|
On May 02 2012 22:20 Gorlin wrote:
Wow people are terrible at rating games. Example, how the fuck could 30% of people thing Parting Oz game 1 was a 5 star game?! There was not a single 5 star game today, nothing even close.
Sometimes a game is so bad that is good you know?
And game polls is one the few ways can still troll on TL 
|
|
|
On May 02 2012 22:20 Gorlin wrote:
Wow people are terrible at rating games. Example, how the fuck could 30% of people thing Parting Oz game 1 was a 5 star game?! There was not a single 5 star game today, nothing even close.
The star rating system is not really working out, people are just using it to vote with their heart, 5 if the player they wanted to win won and 1 if not, Maybe it was especially bad today due to a lot of people who don't usually watch live staying up to see Naniwa play.
|
BTW so happy to see Mvp still winning games! My favorite player, hope he gets through his wrist pains :/
|
MVP! The god of SC2. Food poisoning, injured wrists? Np, Still wins 3-1.
And lol at naniwa fans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
