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Okay, just to see if I'm doing a LR right -
My player won because of superior skills, which you would know if you didn't have 0 knowledge of the game. An all in is completely acceptable as a strategic play unless you do it against my player in which case it's a noob move.
Okay, now seriousness...
Sad to see Naniwa go, but he was against MVP. He still made it pretty far into the tournament, but his play style seems weak to quick Terran attacks. Poor Oz - but Parting is looking really strong. I wouldn't mind seeing a Squirtle/Parting finals. (Is that possible?)
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On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game.
Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT.
Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say?
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just need to cheer on hero and taeja now :3
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Its really hilarious to see the comments like "oh i lost all my respect i had for mvp  " are all from swedes,
lolol. I personally didnt enjoy the cheesy play, but i kinda see a pattern in the comments
LOL
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On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say?
I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 4 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise
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After reading all the comments yesterday in the destiny drama thread and now in this one, I really am disgusted about this community, I thought it was just a minority but no, people are just so fucked up in their mind. That's just not how we're gonna get this thing growing. So much hipocrisy. Nobody would have said anything if it wasn't naniwa today.
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Grats to MVP, too bad he cant play macro games now because of his wrist, I doubt he will be able to play the same way vs his next opponent and win with it.
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On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game.
You can punish a Nexus First build with something else than a 2 proxy rax. If you don't believe me, check Assembly replays for DieStar. MVP choose the easy way; and it saddens a lot of the foreign fans.
On May 02 2012 21:33 Yaki wrote:
After reading all the comments yesterday in the destiny drama thread and now in this one, I really am disgusted about this community, I thought it was just a minority but no, people are just so fucked up in their mind. That's just not how we're gonna get this thing growing. So much hipocrisy. Nobody would have said anything if it wasn't naniwa today.
You can go back to aAa if you wish, I've heard they are nice.
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Naniwa the better player just cheesed to death.
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On May 02 2012 21:29 wasabay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say? I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 3 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise
Irregardless, I think he would've defended with good control. MVP decided to flip some coins today and I think a lot of people would have been very disappointed in him if naniwa had practiced some slightly different openings for these maps.
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On May 02 2012 21:33 Letall wrote:
Grats to MVP, too bad he cant play macro games now because of his wrist, I doubt he will be able to play the same way vs his next opponent and win with it.
BUT MAN, did you fucking watched his ro32 and ro16 matches ? HE CAN macro game, he is very good at macro games. BUT, naniwa is a very greedy player that has a lot of weaknesses in the early game. Are you seriously shitting on mvp for exploiting that ?
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On May 02 2012 21:36 sertas wrote:
Naniwa the better player just cheesed to death.
The better player? Oh dear.
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On May 02 2012 21:33 Letall wrote:
Grats to MVP, too bad he cant play macro games now because of his wrist, I doubt he will be able to play the same way vs his next opponent and win with it.
LOL!~
*fell off chair*
ROFLMAO
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On May 02 2012 20:21 ChrysaliS_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:11 tomatriedes wrote:On May 02 2012 20:02 KristofferAG wrote:On May 02 2012 20:00 Exarl25 wrote:On May 02 2012 19:57 iky43210 wrote:On May 02 2012 19:56 MCXD wrote:On May 02 2012 19:55 iky43210 wrote:On May 02 2012 19:53 xN.07)MaK wrote:On May 02 2012 19:51 iky43210 wrote:On May 02 2012 19:45 SolidZeal wrote:
Well, justice will be served, MVP vs PartinG... roflstomp
Still kinda hope that Oz can come back to make a few epic PvP's.
Oh and I'm calling it right now, PartinG vs HerO in the finals. I don't know why people like artosis and LR constantly counts out MVP. He's still the most accomplished sc2 player to date, and have been in code S for a very long time. Even last season he was only 1 game away from making into round of 8. And a season before that in round of 4 He probably been in round of 4 or higher more than he has not Because we have eyes, and this is not the MVP we were used to. Call it carpal tunnel, call it PvT era or w/e. Everything not a 3-0 or 3-1 for parting will be a big surprise for me. Using your eyes is deceptive, especially there aren't that many games you can see per season. How do you count someone out who has constantly been able to get into the round of 4 or higher nearly every season? Because he never had to use blind cheese almost 3 games in a row to do it before? "blind" cheese against someone who is known for going constantly forge expand 4 times in a row against zerg despite losing to 6 pool 3 times in the same game set? Naniwa is not known for being flexible with his build. why would you not exploit that MVP is probably the best sc2 player out there that use specific build against players and play mind games Who the fuck doesn't open FFE every PvZ? That's a stupid example, might as well say he isn't flexible because he always opens 9 Pylon. Going FFE in PvZ is normal, Going FFE in a PvZ where you've been cheesed by that exact player more than once is stupid. NaNi isn't good at holding off cheese, people know this and abuse this. There's nothing wrong with continuing to FFE. If you throw down extra cannons an FFE can hold roach rushes. I'm a Naniwa fan and it's pretty obvious that his biggest weakness is fighting cheese and his inability to adapt builds. Even going back to TSL3 final vs Thorzain, in game 1 he scouted 2rax and continued to 1 gate FE, which at that time was fairly unsafe (TZ ended up cancelling and going for 1/1/1). At MLG after being roach rushed 4 times he decided to FFE on Xel'naga Caverns which is by far the worst FFE map; I'm fairly sure it's actually impossible to hold a roach rush on XNC.
Well if it was Xelnaga Caverns then of course it's risky FFEing but what that guy was implying was that FFE is somehow a greedy, risky build when on many maps it's completely safe as long as you make enough cannons.
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On May 02 2012 21:34 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. You can punish a Nexus First build with something else than a 2 proxy rax. If you don't believe me, check Assembly replays for DieStar. MVP choose the easy way; and it saddens a lot of the foreign fans. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:33 Yaki wrote:
After reading all the comments yesterday in the destiny drama thread and now in this one, I really am disgusted about this community, I thought it was just a minority but no, people are just so fucked up in their mind. That's just not how we're gonna get this thing growing. So much hipocrisy. Nobody would have said anything if it wasn't naniwa today. You can go back to aAa if you wish, I've heard they are nice.
Exploit greedy play any way you can. It's Naniwa's fault for making it so easy.
Where was this outrage when DRG shut down his code A opponent in two quick games? Cutting corners and playing greedy makes you look amazing when it's unpunished, it should make you look horrible when it isn't.
Of course when the community perception is that all early aggression is cheese and unacceptable, that makes being greedy win/win.
If you win you usually do so in a dominating fashion because of better econ. When you lose, well he just got cheesed.
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On May 02 2012 21:37 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:29 wasabay wrote:On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say? I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 3 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise Irregardless, I think he would've defended with good control. MVP decided to flip some coins today and I think a lot of people would have been very disappointed in him if naniwa had practiced some slightly different openings for these maps.
People need to stop calling early rush coin flipping.
It's coin flipping when its blind, and there is an equal probability of your opponent playing safe and playing greedy.
If your opponent plays greedy 75% and safe 25%, an early cheese is not a coin flip, more like 75% chance of success.
When your opponent always plays greedy, a well executed proxy 2 rax is as far from a coin flip as possible.
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On May 02 2012 21:38 masakenji wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:33 Letall wrote:
Grats to MVP, too bad he cant play macro games now because of his wrist, I doubt he will be able to play the same way vs his next opponent and win with it. LOL!~ *fell off chair* ROFLMAO
Thanks for your great input........ Actually I read a qoute on reddit about MVP saying that he couldnt strain his wrists therefore he wouldve been at a disadvantage later on in the game. Guess that wasnt a real qoute seeing as I was unable to find it in the real interview.
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sad that nani didn't win well played this season by him anyway ! great play nani
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On May 02 2012 21:43 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:37 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:29 wasabay wrote:On May 02 2012 21:23 hifriend wrote:On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. Dunno where people get this idea. Naniwa has played a lot of different styles successfully and he very oftenly goes for more of a 3 gate aggression type expand in PvT. Game 1 was really greedy I suppose, but MVP won only because he hid his marines well and naniwa was clearly mistaking it for a 2 rax pressure with few scv's. Cannon goes up a few seconds earlier and he wins. Game 3 he just fucked up bad with the control but it was a 1 gate expand which is pretty standard on that map wouldn't you say? I would say the timing for that 1 gate in game 3 is pretty off. It seemed like he wanted to put down a fast nexus but thought otherwise Irregardless, I think he would've defended with good control. MVP decided to flip some coins today and I think a lot of people would have been very disappointed in him if naniwa had practiced some slightly different openings for these maps. People need to stop calling early rush coin flipping. It's coin flipping when its blind, and there is an equal probability of your opponent playing safe and playing greedy. If your opponent plays greedy 75% and safe 25%, an early cheese is not a coin flip, more like 75% chance of success. When your opponent always plays greedy, a well executed proxy 2 rax is as far from a coin flip as possible.
This. I sometimes question whether people actually realize this is a strategy game. MVP was strategically better and stomped Naniwa. Part of a strategy is adjusting to what your opponent is doing. MVP adjusted to Naniwa's greedy style, Naniwa did not adjust to what MVP was doing.
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On May 02 2012 21:34 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:14 zefreak wrote:
"I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished."
Did you guys cry when Leenock exploited Naniwa's predictable play at Providence as well?
Naniwa is nothing special. The reason why he has such a strong mid/late game is because he plays so greedy in the early game. If he didn't cut so many corners he wouldn't die to cheese but he also wouldn't be so dominating in the later game. Of course, you guys don't realize that because you have 0 understanding of the game. You can punish a Nexus First build with something else than a 2 proxy rax. If you don't believe me, check Assembly replays for DieStar. MVP choose the easy way; and it saddens a lot of the foreign fans. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:33 Yaki wrote:
After reading all the comments yesterday in the destiny drama thread and now in this one, I really am disgusted about this community, I thought it was just a minority but no, people are just so fucked up in their mind. That's just not how we're gonna get this thing growing. So much hipocrisy. Nobody would have said anything if it wasn't naniwa today. You can go back to aAa if you wish, I've heard they are nice.
You're just responding childishly. You aren't sad because "MVP choose the easy way", you're just angry because naniwa got crushed for being so greedy and instead of accepting that you're just putting the blame on mvp who by the way owes you nothing.
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EPT
