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Ldawg
United States328 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:13 Ausfailia wrote: How thinly do you want to veil your balance whining? I will ask the same question of you, if you think I am balance whining in regards to a race, which side am I on? My comments were not in reference to a particular race or unit, but in regards to the length of game/winning race relationship in PvT. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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Gackt_
335 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
On May 02 2012 19:45 Soma.bokforlag wrote: i think most of us are really sad because we lost the opportunity to see what could have been a really great series. this series, even though mvp playing better and winnig fairly, does in no real way show who is the better player. i dont know how big part nerves played, but its always sad to see a player you know can performe at a high level play relativelty poorly. everyone who has seen naniwas games in code a and his great games at mlg knows it wasnt just bad luck or his opponents being much better. he has a nerve-issue when playing in korea and all the non-naniwa-haters would have hoped that issue would have been resolved by now. seeing the games today though, i dont think anyone (besides the pople creating accounts to bash naniwa (seriously guys? how old are you?)) felt we saw naniwa perform up to those standards today Dealing with this shit is a skill too tho, as much as I sometimes wish it wasn't (my biggest weakness by faaaaaar). You can't look at a macro game, see he played it awesomely, and then watch him get utterly wrecked by some cheese and conclude he's underperforming when dieing to the cheese... Could also be that his macro game is just much better than his cheese defense etc. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:29 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Dealing with this shit is a skill too tho, as much as I sometimes wish it wasn't (my biggest weakness by faaaaaar). You can't look at a macro game, see he played it awesomely, and then watch him get utterly wrecked by some cheese and conclude he's underperforming when dieing to the cheese... Could also be that his macro game is just much better than his cheese defense etc. Exactly. I don't particularly like Naniwa, but he definitely showed that he was strong in a macro game. However, his cheese defense was NOT strong, and that's why he lost. MVP cheesed because of this; he was probably pretty certain that Naniwa was weaker versus cheese than in a macro game and exploited that. You can be impeccable in one area of the game and weak in another, and that's what we saw from Naniwa. Perhaps it was just a bad game or two, but in those two games he didn't look particularly strong at defending MVP's cheese. | ||
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InoyouS2
1005 Posts
TvP at the moment is pretty goddamn crappy (TaeJa and SuperNoVa today just got destroyed, and there is now only 1 Terran left in the GSL), I've respected Mvp's play for a long time, mostly for his solid mechanics and unparalleled decision making, and the fact that he can add in cheeses like these and executing them so well just makes his style all that more intelligent. Anyway, fact is NaNiwa = foreigner, Mvp = Korean >> Mvp gets mass hate because he beat the foreigner with 2 cheese builds. | ||
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hanlonbro
108 Posts
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ydeer1993
United Kingdom569 Posts
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:52 Skwid1g wrote: Exactly. I don't particularly like Naniwa, but he definitely showed that he was strong in a macro game. However, his cheese defense was NOT strong, and that's why he lost. MVP cheesed because of this; he was probably pretty certain that Naniwa was weaker versus cheese than in a macro game and exploited that. You can be impeccable in one area of the game and weak in another, and that's what we saw from Naniwa. Perhaps it was just a bad game or two, but in those two games he didn't look particularly strong at defending MVP's cheese. Of course he's good in macro games when he always opens greedy. Truly great macro play is safe builds into late game, not Naniwa's nexus first with no scouting into 2 base all in he falls back on so often. | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On May 04 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Of course he's good in macro games when he always opens greedy. Truly great macro play is safe builds into late game, not Naniwa's nexus first with no scouting into 2 base all in he falls back on so often. Did you watch the games? Naniwa scouted both the proxy 2 rax and did the best scouting he could against the 3rax all in. As Artosis pointed out, he played the best he could with the information he had, but mvp was just too sneaky in hiding the other squad of marines. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On May 03 2012 11:07 zEnVy wrote: There is a massive difference between attacking early and applying pressure and proxying your buildings halfway across the map and pulling all your SCVs. Doesn't make it any less legitimate, he said it in his interview, he knew Nani plays a very greedy style, so he decided to exploit a blatant weakness in his opponent's game. You can't expect to face only opponents who play to your strengths, you need to be prepared to face this kind of thing, it's a basic requirement for winning in starcraft. MVP was smarter, he played a game he knew would go in his favor because he studied naniwa and correctly learned that he wasn't covering his early game weakness. A pro SC player doesn't go into a long series unprepared. Naniwa should have known MVP was going to prepare for that, maybe he even expected him to try these things, but his play was too rigid and unable to adapt, hence he lost to early game strategies and all-ins. What I don't understand is how people can consider cheese as some sort of dishonorable strategy, like it was some kind of insult. WTF, cheese isn't outside the SC2 rulebook as far as I know, it's a viable, defendable, perfectly reasonable strategy in some matchups, every player needs to know how to defend these type of strategies, it's part of the game, how the hell can people say they "lose respect" for a player when they execute these things? That's beyond ridiculous and childish, I'm guessing you people aren't all 5-year olds, right? Right? | ||
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jw232
United States157 Posts
Already in a spoiler tag... kinda redundant | ||
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weiliem
2073 Posts
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