|
On May 03 2012 08:13 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:33 power-overwhelming wrote:
It's quite funny to watch this whole fanboy wars. It's basically Naniwa fans vs MVP fans + Naniwa haters. Being neutral let me lay down some truths
1. Naniwa has always been so weak to adjust to cheeses/all-ins like when Leenock destroyed him in providence.
2. MVP has always all-inned cheesed vs protoss.
I do find it a bit annoying the bias though. When MC wins 2 basing it's automatically an all in. But when MVP wins bitbybit it's genius strategy lol.
The reason MVP all in'd was probably because his wrists were starting to hurt so he knew if he didnt start going all in he would lose simply due to wrist pain. So it's all good.
"You relied heavily on strategy not once but twice. Was it because of your wrist? Some other problem?
[Mvp]: I am of the opinion that you should be punished for risky play. If you get greedy with me, you will get punished. Naniwa is a player who has a risky early game and gets a good economy. Those strategies were a response to that."
|
On May 03 2012 08:13 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:33 power-overwhelming wrote:
It's quite funny to watch this whole fanboy wars. It's basically Naniwa fans vs MVP fans + Naniwa haters. Being neutral let me lay down some truths
1. Naniwa has always been so weak to adjust to cheeses/all-ins like when Leenock destroyed him in providence.
2. MVP has always all-inned cheesed vs protoss.
I do find it a bit annoying the bias though. When MC wins 2 basing it's automatically an all in. But when MVP wins bitbybit it's genius strategy lol.
It's actually not like that at all. MC 2 base all-ins "Amazing timing, unit control" MVP allins "Genius strategy, amazing unit control" The reason MVP all in'd was probably because his wrists were starting to hurt so he knew if he didnt start going all in he would lose simply due to wrist pain. So it's all good.
I can almost guarantee that MVP allready planned every game before going in to the series. Just fyi. People don't go into an important series and improvise from game to game.
|
People are crying over split milk. Naniwa deserves to lose if he plays so greedy. He should say no rush 15 mins next time, as most swedes here want. anyone hittin naniwa before 9 mins is an automatic cheeser.
Why don't someone let me go double nexus and wait til i build my collos/templer deathball, and we'll play. That's like saying lets give zerg 15 BL, 10 infestors, 5 queens, and mass banes before you attack.
Naniwa plays greedy as hell and he deserves to be punished. you guys seem to want everyone to go deathball vs deathball. and even then, people complain that deathball is boring. no one is ever satisfied. Nani went nexus first one game, you want MVP to let him build up a huge army before attacking??? people are seriously in need of help here
|
|
|
On May 03 2012 10:52 tranmillitary wrote:
People are crying over split milk. Naniwa deserves to lose if he plays so greedy. He should say no rush 15 mins next time, as most swedes here want. anyone hittin naniwa before 9 mins is an automatic cheeser.
Why don't someone let me go double nexus and wait til i build my collos/templer deathball, and we'll play. That's like saying lets give zerg 15 BL, 10 infestors, 5 queens, and mass banes before you attack.
Naniwa plays greedy as hell and he deserves to be punished. you guys seem to want everyone to go deathball vs deathball. and even then, people complain that deathball is boring. no one is ever satisfied. Nani went nexus first one game, you want MVP to let him build up a huge army before attacking??? people are seriously in need of help here
There is a massive difference between attacking early and applying pressure and proxying your buildings halfway across the map and pulling all your SCVs.
|
On May 03 2012 11:07 zEnVy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:52 tranmillitary wrote:
People are crying over split milk. Naniwa deserves to lose if he plays so greedy. He should say no rush 15 mins next time, as most swedes here want. anyone hittin naniwa before 9 mins is an automatic cheeser.
Why don't someone let me go double nexus and wait til i build my collos/templer deathball, and we'll play. That's like saying lets give zerg 15 BL, 10 infestors, 5 queens, and mass banes before you attack.
Naniwa plays greedy as hell and he deserves to be punished. you guys seem to want everyone to go deathball vs deathball. and even then, people complain that deathball is boring. no one is ever satisfied. Nani went nexus first one game, you want MVP to let him build up a huge army before attacking??? people are seriously in need of help here There is a massive difference between attacking early and applying pressure and proxying your buildings halfway across the map and pulling all your SCVs.
But why is one more honorable than the other? Naniwa would been in a dominant position if he had held off the cheese and he had his chances. None of the strategies he faced were auto-losses.
|
The last game was a huge disapointment. Naniwa lost that game far more than MVP having a clever strategy or anything.
Naniwa had everything he needed to absolutely crush that attack but he didn't. MVP had great strategies for the other games, except the 3rd where he did one of the worst attacks i've ever seen haha.
|
On May 03 2012 11:07 zEnVy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:52 tranmillitary wrote:
People are crying over split milk. Naniwa deserves to lose if he plays so greedy. He should say no rush 15 mins next time, as most swedes here want. anyone hittin naniwa before 9 mins is an automatic cheeser.
Why don't someone let me go double nexus and wait til i build my collos/templer deathball, and we'll play. That's like saying lets give zerg 15 BL, 10 infestors, 5 queens, and mass banes before you attack.
Naniwa plays greedy as hell and he deserves to be punished. you guys seem to want everyone to go deathball vs deathball. and even then, people complain that deathball is boring. no one is ever satisfied. Nani went nexus first one game, you want MVP to let him build up a huge army before attacking??? people are seriously in need of help here There is a massive difference between attacking early and applying pressure and proxying your buildings halfway across the map and pulling all your SCVs.
whats the difference. he didn't proxy the first time, and won, than he proxy and won. Tell me the difference??? you're so smart right??
if naniwa went normal gate/gas/pylon... than scouted and saw that proxy , add another gate or forge, he would of won. parting/mc/oz/genuis would of laughed at that. Only naniwa and his super greedy builds would lose. if i see someone tryin that on ladder vs me, i'll laugh. You think it's easy to do what mvp did?? MVP is an outlier, he's one of the few who can do it.
|
On May 02 2012 08:45 Kaesebrot wrote:
I hope MVP will ROFLSTOMP Nani and end his streak of Luck!
HAHA I knew it!
|
I am not certain if anyone shares the same sentiment regarding cheese, but what I really dislike seeing often in series is "early cheese" (since there is not clearcut definition) such as proxy rax, early pools, four gates, etc. It does not matter what race is doing it or who the player is, I instantly just writhe on the inside. "Cheeses" such as 7 gates, delayed banshees (which I have seen obliterate protoss going for early 3 base), etc. do not really annoy me.
Above all, the fact that I can look at the VOD time for a given PvT and make an almost consistently correct prediction on who won based on the duration of the VOD, kills me. I find myself doing it almost subconsciously in every PvT I see on GOM and did it starting with game 2 of Naniwa vs MVP. It's frustrating as hell because before I even know it, I've already seen the duration of the VOD and essentially spoiled it for myself. Game 2 less than 15 minutes? MVP wins, and I was correct, Game 3 somewhere around 15 minutes? Expected Nani to win and he did. Same for game 4, VOD under 15 minutes, expected MVP to win and he did.
It most certainly is a complex balancing issue, but I hope either the meta game or Blizzard fixes this almost perfect correlation between game duration and which race wins in PvT.
|
remember when naniwa 2 gate proxy rushed nestea? seems like a lot of you don't remember
on top of this i see so many people complaining about cheese/2base timing. if you do remember game one wasnt about mvps 2 base timing it was about naniwas. he was the one who was doing a 2 base 3 colo timing that failed so he only then took a third base. but people are making mvp out to be the bad guy here.
|
lol. Actually, I think MVP has this gasless triple expand before barracks into BCs/ravens/ghosts build. But for some reason, his practice partners always 'cheese' him by making zealots, stalkers and sentries and just killing him. So he just said, screw it, all Protoss are cheesers...
|
GJ Naniwa. Glad he got so far, very impressive.
|
Yeah I mean mvp noticed Naniwa was playing greedy which he does. Why would he not play to win? That is why smart players like mvp mix up there builds more and the more common ones are generally safer against cheese like that. The cheeses mvp did were very well executed I mean Naniwa could have won that last game just as easily as mvp and Naniwa made more mistakes so the better player won that map. Mvp had the advantage of being unpredictable I mean what you practice for mvp does so many builds you cant just say he triple expands on these certain maps or anything and it plays to his advantage.
mvp could easily play macro games if he wanted I hate when people use excuses like his wrist hurts. I mean he still practices and plays enough to be competitive and its his job no matter what it feels like you play through it or go home. I played football game and practices with broken hand in cast. You dont baby out with excuse.
|
On May 03 2012 11:46 Ldawg wrote:
I am not certain if anyone shares the same sentiment regarding cheese, but what I really dislike seeing often in series is "early cheese" (since there is not clearcut definition) such as proxy rax, early pools, four gates, etc. It does not matter what race is doing it or who the player is, I instantly just writhe on the inside. "Cheeses" such as 7 gates, delayed banshees (which I have seen obliterate protoss going for early 3 base), etc. do not really annoy me.
Above all, the fact that I can look at the VOD time for a given PvT and make an almost consistently correct prediction on who won based on the duration of the VOD, kills me. I find myself doing it almost subconsciously in every PvT I see on GOM and did it starting with game 2 of Naniwa vs MVP. It's frustrating as hell because before I even know it, I've already seen the duration of the VOD and essentially spoiled it for myself. Game 2 less than 15 minutes? MVP wins, and I was correct, Game 3 somewhere around 15 minutes? Expected Nani to win and he did. Same for game 4, VOD under 15 minutes, expected MVP to win and he did.
It most certainly is a complex balancing issue, but I hope either the meta game or Blizzard fixes this almost perfect correlation between game duration and which race wins in PvT.
Stop balance whining. Naniwa is a greedy player who is terrible at holding off cheese. He loses to cheese vs Terran/Zerg so much it's hilarious because he's so unbelievably greedy. With $50,000 on the line Mvp is more than happy to profit from Naniwa's lack of common sense and take free wins.
Perhaps one day Naniwa (and more other foreigners) will understand that winning is winning and stop pretending the GSL is some EU tournament where everyone is playing 20 minute no rush. Maybe then he will finally win a knockout game in the GSL.
|
On May 03 2012 11:46 Ldawg wrote:
I am not certain if anyone shares the same sentiment regarding cheese, but what I really dislike seeing often in series is "early cheese" (since there is not clearcut definition) such as proxy rax, early pools, four gates, etc. It does not matter what race is doing it or who the player is, I instantly just writhe on the inside. "Cheeses" such as 7 gates, delayed banshees (which I have seen obliterate protoss going for early 3 base), etc. do not really annoy me.
Above all, the fact that I can look at the VOD time for a given PvT and make an almost consistently correct prediction on who won based on the duration of the VOD, kills me. I find myself doing it almost subconsciously in every PvT I see on GOM and did it starting with game 2 of Naniwa vs MVP. It's frustrating as hell because before I even know it, I've already seen the duration of the VOD and essentially spoiled it for myself. Game 2 less than 15 minutes? MVP wins, and I was correct, Game 3 somewhere around 15 minutes? Expected Nani to win and he did. Same for game 4, VOD under 15 minutes, expected MVP to win and he did.
It most certainly is a complex balancing issue, but I hope either the meta game or Blizzard fixes this almost perfect correlation between game duration and which race wins in PvT.
How thinly do you want to veil your balance whining?
|
Holy crap 200 pages before the event even starts. This is going to be one hell of a night.
Edit: Ooops. Thanks
On May 03 2012 14:25 Kogutz wrote:Wrong topic bro.  This one already happened. Im so happy that Naniwa is out and PartinG crushed Oz. YAAY!
|
On May 03 2012 14:19 Jisall wrote:
Holy crap 200 pages before the event even starts. This is going to be one hell of a night.
Wrong topic bro. This one already happened.
Im so happy that Naniwa is out and PartinG crushed Oz.
YAAY!
|
On May 03 2012 07:10 anrimayu wrote:
Cheese me once, shame on you. Cheese me... you cant get cheesed again.
I lol'd
|
On May 03 2012 13:17 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 11:46 Ldawg wrote:
I am not certain if anyone shares the same sentiment regarding cheese, but what I really dislike seeing often in series is "early cheese" (since there is not clearcut definition) such as proxy rax, early pools, four gates, etc. It does not matter what race is doing it or who the player is, I instantly just writhe on the inside. "Cheeses" such as 7 gates, delayed banshees (which I have seen obliterate protoss going for early 3 base), etc. do not really annoy me.
Above all, the fact that I can look at the VOD time for a given PvT and make an almost consistently correct prediction on who won based on the duration of the VOD, kills me. I find myself doing it almost subconsciously in every PvT I see on GOM and did it starting with game 2 of Naniwa vs MVP. It's frustrating as hell because before I even know it, I've already seen the duration of the VOD and essentially spoiled it for myself. Game 2 less than 15 minutes? MVP wins, and I was correct, Game 3 somewhere around 15 minutes? Expected Nani to win and he did. Same for game 4, VOD under 15 minutes, expected MVP to win and he did.
It most certainly is a complex balancing issue, but I hope either the meta game or Blizzard fixes this almost perfect correlation between game duration and which race wins in PvT. Stop balance whining. Naniwa is a greedy player who is terrible at holding off cheese. He loses to cheese vs Terran/Zerg so much it's hilarious because he's so unbelievably greedy. With $50,000 on the line Mvp is more than happy to profit from Naniwa's lack of common sense and take free wins. Perhaps one day Naniwa (and more other foreigners) will understand that winning is winning and stop pretending the GSL is some EU tournament where everyone is playing 20 minute no rush. Maybe then he will finally win a knockout game in the GSL.
Nice blind, ignorant raging. Ignorant because if I am balance whining, which side am I on? If you will actually read my comments, you will understand that what I want to change is the relationship between length of game and which race wins in PvT. My "balancing" comment was in regards to this, not in reference to any unit of either race.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
