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But in my opinion...
Each team gets to choose their Ace.. so the team knew of Thorzain's not so ideal situation.. Thorzain himself knew of his not so ideal situation..
Liquid likewise knew of Hero's unideal sitauation as well (as did Hero).
They both took risks that they 100% had control over (pick someone else). Both teams can only accept the consequences of their actions (no excuses). In this case, it paid off for Liquid, as Hero was able to muster his A-game at 4am KST.
In the end.. Kudos to both NASL and the teams for agreeing on fair terms and the unprecedented / very accomodating compromise.
Go Hero 
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On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory.
Agree. The only loser in this Thorzain "venting" bullshit was Hero, who did the terrible act of... winning the game.
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On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory.
Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant.
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Awesome TL is on a roll!!!
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Are people seriously considering a witch hunt on Thorzain? Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
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On March 19 2012 14:05 Bagration wrote:
Are people seriously considering a witch hunt on Thorzain? Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
I sure hope not. I hope the situation is left as is. NASL's statement was enough.
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United Kingdom3249 Posts
On March 19 2012 14:05 Bagration wrote:
Are people seriously considering a witch hunt on Thorzain? Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
Don't see anything on the front page of Reddit yet so I am not too too worried. :D
And yeah, it was not the most...graceful final seconds of the ace match ever, but hey, at least the casters made the best of what otherwise might have been very awkward.
Was amazing to see HerO play like that, so happy with how his PvT is progressing. I still have my doubts about his matchup vs the very best of the best Terrans, but that is not an unenviable situation to be in! <3
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On March 19 2012 14:02 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory. Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant.
No one demanded anything. I think you may need to carefully evaluate the meaning of the word: "should".
In addition, I personally feel for Thorzain's position. With the entire team riding on his games, which he lost decisively, he no doubt was crushed emotionally.
However, nothing excuses bad or unprofessional behavior, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out here on the forum. I'm amazed that even two people on here are rushing to the defense of rudeness as if people are trying to crucify Thorzain.
It's very simple: he disrespected his opponent after the game ended, most people will forgive him. He should apologize to Hero and TL in some way - whether he actually does this or not is up to him.
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On March 19 2012 14:09 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:02 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory. Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant. No one demanded anything. I think you may need to carefully evaluate the meaning of the word: "should". In addition, I personally feel for Thorzain's position. With the entire team riding on his games, which he lost decisively, he no doubt was crushed emotionally. However, nothing excuses bad or unprofessional behavior, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out here on the forum. I'm amazed that even two people on here are rushing to the defense of rudeness.
I am not saying "Good job Thorzain" I am saying "Who cares ?".
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On March 19 2012 14:13 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:09 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 14:02 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory. Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant. No one demanded anything. I think you may need to carefully evaluate the meaning of the word: "should". In addition, I personally feel for Thorzain's position. With the entire team riding on his games, which he lost decisively, he no doubt was crushed emotionally. However, nothing excuses bad or unprofessional behavior, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out here on the forum. I'm amazed that even two people on here are rushing to the defense of rudeness. I am not saying "Good job Thorzain" I am saying "Who cares ?".
Exactly. I think more people just don't want to see people bringing more attention to a point that doesn't need anymore notice. You're only going to get more fans focus on the whining rather than the deserved victory here.
EDIT: It's not like we're excusing him, we're just saying that it's not that big of a deal.
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On March 19 2012 14:09 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:02 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:57 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:53 mcc wrote:On March 19 2012 13:50 SCST wrote:On March 19 2012 13:45 NASL.tv wrote:Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution. This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party. General Background Information- We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
- The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
- Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
- NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match- Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
- Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
- Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
- Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
- A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
- I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
- NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
- We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
- We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal. - Xeris So in other words this entire setup was actually more to accomodate Mouz than Liquid, due to Thorzain playing other matches when he was suppose to be available for the ace match. The server was coin-flip for the first match and then alternated each game. NASTL was more than fair, and Liquid had NOTHING to do with it. Thorzain was just being very bad manner . . . he really should apologize. For what, for venting ? You people really love drama and want apologies for everything. If that was very BM I am a pope. Yes, for venting. Professionals don't need to vent. Just say: "gg" and leave. By being a bitch at the end of a game you disrespect your opponent and make them (and their fans) focus on your whining rather than a well-deserved victory. Well maybe the fans should apologize instead for focusing on the venting instead on the well-deserved victory. You demanding apologies for venting is having entitlement complex the size of elephant. No one demanded anything. I think you may need to carefully evaluate the meaning of the word: "should". In addition, I personally feel for Thorzain's position. With the entire team riding on his games, which he lost decisively, he no doubt was crushed emotionally. However, nothing excuses bad or unprofessional behavior, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out here on the forum. I'm amazed that even two people on here are rushing to the defense of rudeness as if people are trying to crucify Thorzain. It's very simple: he disrespected his opponent after the game ended, most people will forgive him. He should apologize to Hero and TL in some way - whether he actually does this or not is up to him.
ya, i do understand Thorzain's position but what he did was... he took away clean win and just made drama. Even some ppl in this thread has said that what happened at the end has taken some of the "win" away. That's what i find more upsetting.
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He was manner to Hero still, with the gg wp. He was (perhaps understandably) upset at the situation, and losing the series for his team. It's a lot of pressure to be under and I don't think his reaction was so sever as to get ourselves too worked up over.
That said, I hope his team talks to him about it and encourages him to not do his venting in public, if just to protect their public image. I mean, of course he's going to be upset at losing the ace match in the finals of a league, especially if he feels hard done by at the servers etc. he had to play with. But it would be better if he had somewhere to vent in private is all.
Props to NASL for handling the whole situation in a reasonable way (from the explanations they gave), but I can understand why Thorzain was a little frustrated, with how stressful a situation it was already and then having all this rearrangement going on.
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United Kingdom3249 Posts
On March 19 2012 14:37 [Erasmus] wrote:
He was manner to Hero still, with the gg wp. He was (perhaps understandably) upset at the situation, and losing the series for his team. It's a lot of pressure to be under and I don't think his reaction was so sever as to get ourselves too worked up over.
That said, I hope his team talks to him about it and encourages him to not do his venting in public, if just to protect their public image. I mean, of course he's going to be upset at losing the ace match in the finals of a league, especially if he feels hard done by at the servers etc. he had to play with. But it would be better if he had somewhere to vent in private is all.
Props to NASL for handling the whole situation in a reasonable way (from the explanations they gave), but I can understand why Thorzain was a little frustrated, with how stressful a situation it was already and then having all this rearrangement going on.
So much truth to this.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
gg and congrats to Liquid! Weird bm from Thorzain but probably just out of frustration. Hopefully he bounces back from such a deflating loss.
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Wow HerO 3-0ing ThorZain very nice!
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United States4796 Posts
ThorZaIN is still the biggest pimp by the way.
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I guess Thorzain was a little out of line but honestly I feel inclined to cut him some slack since he is generally so mellow. It feels like it would be totally unfair to not take that into consideration and I could see how he might have lost himself a bit in the moment.
Also, Incontroll really brought the set up a notch for me in terms of being able to point out all the crazy-cool stuff Hero was doing.
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This is really odd of thorzain, normally a very nice and very well mannered guy, must have been very very frustrated, and the pressure of it being the ace match for the finals of NASTL probably did not help his temper any. Seems like just an unavoidable shitty situation on either side, hope this wont happen again
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The statement from NASL resolves everything neatly.
I'm not upset with ThorZaiN for his outburst, but still am of the opinion that it was directed at the wrong people. Liquid was very fair in dealing with Mouz to play out the ace match. If anything, ThorZaiN should be disappointed with his management for selecting him to play the ace match.
All drama aside, congratulations to TeamLiquid! This 2012 will be the year of Liquid again!
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EPT
